How to Build: "Wreaths of Holy Fire"

[BrandonQ]

I'm working on a magical sword, and I'm having a hard time deciding exactly how I should build a specific magical ability for it. How do you build a sword that does additional damage of a different kind, especially if it should be applied to the defenses separately or is otherwise 'different' than just another +2d6 HKA?

 

For instance, a "Flametongue" sword that's wreathed in flame or a Holy Blade that does extra damage against demons??

 

Similarly, how would you build a power that let you add on 'extra holy/fire/whatever damage' to any weapon you were holding?

[Steve Long]

Re: How to Build: "Wreaths of Holy Fire"

 

Since this is a "how to" and not a rules question, I've moved it to the "Discussion" board so that anyone who's interested can chime in.

[DrFurious]

Re: How to Build: "Wreaths of Holy Fire"

 

Flametongue:

 

2d6 HKA, OAF:sword(-1), StrMin(?), Blade limitation(?), etc. as required.

plus

1d6 RKA(flames), No range(-1/2), OAF:magic sword (-1), etc. as required.

 

You can use a MPA to do the attack and apply the defenses seperately (one physical, the other energy). With this construct, you can also use the flames of the sword only (i.e. there is no linked limitation above).

 

How does that sound?

[MarioTani]

Re: How to Build: "Wreaths of Holy Fire"

 

Hy, and wellcome tothe boards.

you can do something like that easily, just reasoning for effects, that as you'll sonn learn it's the key to understanding how to representa power in the Hero System^_^

 

There's some interesting halp at:

http://www.herogames.com/SupportFAQs/effects.htm

 

What is the effect of a flametongue sword?

 

1) damage as for the sword, and here you could go with the canonical 1d6+1 HKA of a LongSword

 

2) damage for the fire.

forf this you could, as suggested on FRED 119, usa a EB with the No Range Limitation

 

you should have something like:

 

FlameTongue Sword:

HKA 1d6+1 (20), Reduced Endurance (0 End; +1/2), Active Points 30; Real Weapons (-1/4), STR Min (12; -1/2), Focus (OAF; -1) Real Cost 11. plus EB 6d6 (Against ED; 30) Reduced END (0 END; +1/2), Active Points 45; Focus (OAF; -1), No Range (-1/2) Linked (-1/4); Real Cost 16. Total Cost 27

 

So the character is equipped with a Magical Sword that can burst in flames when he wants. There could be some variants, for example if you wonted the character to utter some magical word to make the flames engulf the sword you could add to the EB the limitation Incantations (-1/4), so the RC of the EB would be 15 and the total cost 26.

 

Or maybe the spell can be used only a limited number of times a day and when spoken it last for a minute, in this case you would substitute the Reduced END (0; +1/2) from the EB with a Continuos (+1) to make it Constant, raising the active points to 60 and add a limitation Charges (4 1 Minute Continous Charges, -1/2). In this alternative write-up the Flame power would cost 18 and the totla cost rise to 29 CP.

 

 

If you want to make a power to add the Flame effect to a weapon. you would simply create the power as above (only the EB part, of course) but instead of the Focus (OAF; -1) you would use a Focus (OIF: Weapon of Opportunity; -1/2) so the power would be something like:

 

Flaming Weapon Spell

EB 6d6 (Against ED; 30) Reduced END (0 END; +1/2), Active Points 45; Focus (OIF: Weapon of Opportunity; -1/2), No Range (-1/2) Linked (-1/4); RSR (Magic Skill; -1/2). Real Cost 16.

[Dust Raven]

Re: How to Build: "Wreaths of Holy Fire"

 

Just about anything defined as doing extra damage, but affected seperately by a target's defenses is almost always bought as just a seperate attack, often with the same Limitations as the attack it's used with. The only restrictions are using mutually exclusive Limitations such as Concentration or Gestures (you can't Concentrate on/Gesture for more than one Power with such a Limitation).

 

If you want to add damage if the target is of a particular type (demons for example), you could simply add additional dice (which would add to the others before defenses) with an Only Versus X Limitation. If the extra damage would be against different defenses, you can write it up as a seperate attack.

 

I suppose the most confusing part would be adjucating SFX descriptions such as "holy", "demonic" or "cold". There is no mechanic for these things, though in the cases you describe it's encouraged to describe it that way. If you have a Holy Avenger Longsword, you might write it up as a normal longsword and add Holy Damage: HKA +1d6 (adds to longsword dice) (15 Active Points) OAF (-1) Weapon Limitations (Real Weapon, STR Min, etc, -?) Only Versus Evil/Infernal Targets (-1/2) Real Cost=varies. The damage itself just adds 1d6 to the weapon (and might increase how much STR adds to the damage as well), but only versus the appropriate target. The fact that it's "holy damage" is nice to say, but only comes into play if a taget is vulnerable/susceptible to such damage.

 

And welcome to the Hero Systems boards and Hero in general! Hope that this helped a bit.

[BrandonQ]

Re: How to Build: "Wreaths of Holy Fire"

 

Whoops, put it in the wrong board:) Oh well.

 

Thanks! A lot of very good advise here, and I see exactly how I would do something like this now. The one problem I see is that 'add-on' damage to another attack seems like it'd be some kind of advantage. After all, it wouldn't require it's own attack roll -- only the attack roll of the attack that it's adding onto.

 

As for the "Holy" damage bit, Dust Raven, that is indeed something that I added here because of the Vulnerable/Susceptible disadvantages. I've got a few Demons that I've written up that have those disadvantages to Holy types of damage.

 

Also, the section on page 70 notes that sometimes special effects can give minor benefits and drawbacks in and of itself:D I'm not sure exactly what minor type deals a Holy weapon would have -- maybe like "fire" damage can warm you, "holy" damage can be used to see if there's a susceptible being nearby or something:) The drawback would be that it also warns the beings that there's a holy demon-hunter nearby. Neither of those sound impressive enough to be worth an additional power (not as impressive as a Detect with Side-effects, for instance). Just a hand story-thing, now and again:)

 

Anyway, thanks for all the help!

[caris]

Re: How to Build: "Wreaths of Holy Fire"

 

As for the "Holy" damage bit' date=' Dust Raven, that is indeed something that I added here because of the Vulnerable/Susceptible disadvantages. I've got a few Demons that I've written up that have those disadvantages to Holy types of damage.[/quote']

 

One thing you could do for making any weapon you pick up "holy" would be to buy the Advantage: Variable Special Effect as a Naked Advantage.

[BrandonQ]

Re: How to Build: "Wreaths of Holy Fire"

 

Okay, I've been doing more reading and such and I think I understand a bit more of my misapprehensions. A lot of them came from other game systems. I didn't think about "Multi-Power Attacks", for instance, and was firm on the idea that you can only attack once in a phase.

 

So, this is obviously just a Energy Bolt with some limitations added in. I'm assuming that it should be OIF? Since it's hard to 'take away' the power. While a Demon could disarm the character for one battle, that'd just last until the character could get his hands on *any* other sword. So, inaccessible. Am I correct in this thinking?

 

If it required one particular sword, or some kind of special sword (one blessed by a high priest or something), it'd presumably be Accessible.

 

Oh, and Caris -- that's a very cool idea and a very workable one. Not quite what I wanted to do, but it could make a very cool ability for some other character with a similar motif.

[badger3k]

Re: How to Build: "Wreaths of Holy Fire"

 

Okay, I've been doing more reading and such and I think I understand a bit more of my misapprehensions. A lot of them came from other game systems. I didn't think about "Multi-Power Attacks", for instance, and was firm on the idea that you can only attack once in a phase.

 

So, this is obviously just a Energy Bolt with some limitations added in. I'm assuming that it should be OIF? Since it's hard to 'take away' the power. While a Demon could disarm the character for one battle, that'd just last until the character could get his hands on *any* other sword. So, inaccessible. Am I correct in this thinking?

 

If it required one particular sword, or some kind of special sword (one blessed by a high priest or something), it'd presumably be Accessible.

 

Oh, and Caris -- that's a very cool idea and a very workable one. Not quite what I wanted to do, but it could make a very cool ability for some other character with a similar motif.

 

When you buy a power linked, it doesn't require a separate attack - it goes off when the power it is linked to does. I use that to simulate such things as elemental weapons. Most items that I build that are weapons are OAF - the flames come from the blade (obvious), and it can be taken away in combat (accessible). They are also Independant, since anyone can pick them up and use them (to do one that shocks people, damage field and trigger are good for this, IMO). If the blade is something special, such as requiring special ores or something, you can use some kind of limitation, but that would really be part of the spell that enchants the blade, not the sword itself. Both powers would be built with the same limitations (except for the linked power), unless the extra power has others (such as charges, etc).

 

An item is Inobvious if the power doesn't seem to come from it (a ring that does not show anything when its magic is used perhaps). It's Inaccessible when it can be removed out of combat (say taking the ring off while he sleeps) but not in combat with a grab/disarm move. Necklaces can either be Acc or Inacc, depending on how they are worn, but I normally put Inacc, since most players conceal them, but assume they can be grabbed in the right situation.

 

As for minor effects, I wouldn't give a holy weapon the ability to tell if there's something around (that's what the detect power is for - trust me, it is worth the points - well, at least in my games it is) but I might tell the player something like - "you feel a surge of power from the blade, and your target seems injured more than he should have been" - something to tell the player that his target is vulnerable. Other options could be a "holy aura" around the item that calms the character, or strengthens their faith (maybe worth a bonus to rolls once in a while, if it fits the story), or a warm, comforting glow that isn't sufficient to provide light, or that can only be seen by the wielder. Anything that might have a major effect I put points into an ability, since that's what they are there for, IMO.

 

YMMV, but that's my opinion. Hope that helps some.

 

edit - wanted to say that in my games, different energy types are EB or RKA, depending on the strength of the element (earth would be a physical EB or HA, electricity/lightning is usually RKA, ice/cold EB, fire usually EB, acid usually RKA. No real reason other than personal preference. If you want the extra damage to be more life threatening, then I'd go with the KA - if not, use the EB. The type of defenses also can affect that decision - if you use the lower def for energy option for armor like I do (ED is half PD), then energy damage can be very deadly, which is the way I want it for my game.

 

Have fun and let me add my welcome too (sorry, forgot to say that first).

[Dust Raven]

Re: How to Build: "Wreaths of Holy Fire"

 

As for incedental effects from Holy Damage/Items, the idea that any creature that's vulnerable/susceptable can recognize the weapon/item for what it is. This might sound like a drawback, but it's balanced by the fact that you can then keep such creatures a bay quite easily without even making an attack roll.

 

Another idea would be that whenever the Holy damage hit's a target vul/susc to it it cause a different type of wound (typically burns), though it's affected by defenses normally. I picture plunging the sword through the chest of a demon and seeing the flesh bubble with smoke rising out if the wound.