prerequisites as a limitation

[Gunrunner]

I wanted to create talents/powers/perks that had prerequisites a character must meet in order to possess them. Example: Let's say I wanted to create a talent (pick anything) that had a prerequisite Dexterity 15. In other words, in order for a character to be able to buy this talent, he/she would have to have a Dexterity of 15 or higher.

 

My question is this: Is this worth any points as a limitation? On one hand, it forces a character to increase or have their dexterity at 15 or higher if they want to possess it. On the other hand, once a character has a Dex 15 or higher, it doesn't really limit the use of the talent in any way. So would this be a -0 limitation? -1/4 limitation perhaps? In your opinion, would the limitation be greater if the prerequisite were more stringent, say requiring a Dexterity of 20 or higher?

 

What's everyone's opinion or official word on something like this? Is there anything similar to this in the Ultimate Brick where characters with great STR can do various feats of strengh? It seems like there would be some prerequisite STR necessary to do something like crush coal into a diamond.

[TheEmerged]

Re: prerequisites as a limitation

 

It's only worth points as a limitation if there's some way the prereq can be taken away from the character -- and at that point the value of the limitation is dependent on how easily & how often the prereq can be taken away.

 

So to use your DEX 15 example, it's only a limitation if DEX drains are pretty common. I'd expect it to come up at least once every other session before I'd tag it at -1/4.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: prerequisites as a limitation

 

Tangentially related, a prior edition of Fantasy Hero commonly used spells which required at least X points spent on magic in the same "school", and I think assigned some limitation for that.

 

In 5e, I would say that prerequisites don't save points. Package deal bonuses have been eliminated, and while I think FH discusses the possibility of certain levels of spellcasting being required to purchase certain spells, no limitation is suggested for this restriction.

 

I agree with TheEmerged that a limitation would be appropriate if the power becomes unavailable if the character later loses the prerequisite, with a limitation on the likely frequency of such an occurence.

 

The minimum stat requirement strikes me as very much a d20 mechanic. IUn Hero, I would be more inclined to use "Requires a Skill Roll", with the skill either being based on the stat, or being a stat roll itself. It seems more reasonable to me that an ability requiring a certain level of DEX to perform would be harder for individuals of lower DEX and easier for persons of greater DEX, not impossible at DEX 14 and automatic at DEX 15.

[KA.]

Re: prerequisites as a limitation

 

-snip-

The minimum stat requirement strikes me as very much a d20 mechanic. IUn Hero, I would be more inclined to use "Requires a Skill Roll", with the skill either being based on the stat, or being a stat roll itself. It seems more reasonable to me that an ability requiring a certain level of DEX to perform would be harder for individuals of lower DEX and easier for persons of greater DEX, not impossible at DEX 14 and automatic at DEX 15.

 

Gunrunner,

I agree with Hugh, this is not really a "Hero" concept.

 

Since any character can buy their stats up to whatever level is necessary, this is not really a Limitation.

 

By requiring a skill roll, based on the stat in question, you can make it (on average) easier on people with a higher stat, and harder on people with a lower stat, without the: "You can't be a Ranger unless your Dexterity is X and your Strength is Y and your Charisma is Z!" stuff, creeping in.

 

So, rather than saying:

"You can't buy "Eidetic Memory" if your INT is below 18"

saying that it requires a Skill Roll based on INT, means that lower INT characters will have a harder time using it, but can still do so if they want to.

 

The reason that there are no requirements of this type in the system right now, is flexibility in character creation.

 

A player may want to design a "Rain Man" type character, that does not have a high functioning level of traditional "Intelligence" but has Eidetic Memory and Lightning Calculator.

By putting a numerical requirement on Intelligence, you take away some options.

 

Another example is a sort of "Three Stooges" type character. A clumsy guy with low Dexterity, who manages to avoid serious damage in combat situations by having "Combat Luck".

 

Having a DEX requirement to purchase Combat Luck, takes away this option.

 

Of course, as always, you can do whatever you want in your own campaign.

Just trying to give you a little background on why things are the way they are in the rules.

 

KA.

[ghost-angel]

Re: prerequisites as a limitation

 

I'm completely in agreance with the others - this isn't really a Hero mechanic, nor does it fit well into the game...

 

But.. here's some ideas anyway.

 

I'm assuming a few things: Heroic Campaign starting under 100pts, NCM required for all and that you're attempting to simulate D20.

 

I would put a, in the case of a DEX based action, minumum on an Agility Skill instead of the DEX stat.

 

Quick Dodge; +1 DCV Skill Level [5 Active Points]; Must have Breakfall at 14- (-1/4) [4 Real Points]. If the campaign rarely has skill rolls going this high then increase the limitations to -1/2.

 

this does several things better than basing it the requirement off a stat:

1) It allows those with a low DEX stat but who have bought up Breakfall use the skill, adding versitality and possibly prevent clones.

2) It allows those with a low DEX stat and low Breakfall skill but with Agility Skill Levels make more use of them.. if you have a Breakfall of 12- and +2 Agility SL you can use Quick Dodge, but if those skill levels were allocated to say, Stealth this phase and not to Breakfall then you aren't prepared and can't use Quick Dodge. adding more flavor and versitality to the game.

 

The level of a certain skill is at is a better benchmark for how good a character might be at something than the stat, Clumsy Bob might have a DEX of 9 but he always seem to land on his feet because of his Breakfall skill is at the 15- level.

 

I hope that helps with some ideas...

 

[P.S. I chose Breakfall because it was the first Agility skill that popped into my head, it was an example only.]

[Gunrunner]

Re: prerequisites as a limitation

 

Thanks for the input everyone.

[Maccabe]

Re: prerequisites as a limitation

 

Have you considered the fact that some skills have requirements that are not openly stated????

 

Driving: Car [must be of proper age, and be physically capable]

Computer Programming [ must be Computer Literate]

 

Some of these might , however, suggest disads that would simulate a lacking

requirement; Young (can't vote, can't drive, can't drink alcohol, has a curfew,

restricted to PG 13 or less movies, etc).

Computer Illiterate ( good for people who live in poor countries, are too old

to have ever used a computer before)