Polishing The HERO System

[Rene]

Re: Polishing The HERO System

 

Now' date=' all that being said, as I think you may have seen me say elsewhere, I'm not at all dismissing your comments/concerns, I do think that we ought to strive to be able to simulate the genre, ideally doing it "perfectly", but there's simply so many complexities in the media forms themselves, inherently, that I think we have to acknowledge that distortion is not only necessary and inevitable, practically speaking, but even desirable.[/quote']

 

Surely, a bit of distortion is unavoidable, games simply aren't exactly the same as stories. For instance, the way PC groups usually have heroes with the same power point total. But this does not mean we have to cross the line into making the greatest comic book characters of all time unbuildable and unrecognizable under the system.

 

And most comic characters have worked in groups. Even those who have solo titles. There are very few exceptions (Spider-Man, Daredevil?, even they routinely work with partners that could be construed as games with 2-3 PCs).

 

Superman's power has waxed and waned, but I don't think there is any version of him that would be harder to be made to work into a Champions game than it was harder to make it work in the comics. Pre-Crisis Superman was a god, yes, and you can say that a GM would have to be very creative to craft adventures for him. But we have to note that in the Pre-Crisis universe the WRITERS themselves had to be very creative to craft stories for him too (and often failed or were forced to explore again and again stories that depended on Superman's Achilles Heels).

 

So that isn't HERO's fault, it's a flaw of that version of the character, IMO. But when GURPS can't even portray adequately the post-Crisis Superman version or the Smallville version, that works very fine in the comics and TV, then... well, I simply lose my respect for GURPS. Linear strength simply made Superman unplayable in GURPS.

[Warp9]

Re: Polishing The HERO System

 

I don't think Superman is a "once in a blue moon character". Superman is the most important superhero there is and one of the most important characters in Western culture. If a generic universal game system proposing to simulate all varieties of heroic fiction is unable to do Superman and the many heroes patterned after him, then the system is weak.

I agree with you that a generic system should enable one to build a wide range of characters (alomst anything you can imagine).

 

But to be fair, I don't believe that anybody has suggested changing to a linear system. The change to a different exponenital model would still allow Superman to be created relatively easily (compared to a linear system). If you were to double what a character can lift with every 10 points, a character who currently would be built with 125 STR would need 240 STR under the new system. 240 is quite a bit higher than 125 but at least it is still the same number of digits.

 

That is one of my problems with old GURPS (I'm not sure about the new edition yet). The beauty of HERO is that you can give Supes a 125 STR and have him doing the big but not absurd amount of 25 dice of damage. In GURPS you'd have to, what, give him ST 30.000 to represent his lifting amount? And then he could destroy the universe with the damage he does with his little pinky.

A 125 STR Hero character would have an 80,000,000 STR in GURPS. (a literal translation to 3rd ed GURPS)

 

 

I believe that the game system must follow the genre. Not that the genre must be distorted to fit in the game system, so we'd have bricks and speedsters that are much weaker than the comics versions because the game don't support them.

Interestingly enough, I think that simulating the comics is what Hyperion has in mind.

 

The problem is that, in the "offical listings" for the Marvel Universe (which Hyperion has mentioned), the strongest characters pretty much max out at 100 tons, but Hero allows characters to go far beyond this limit. Therefore, Hero does not work in the way that Hyperion expects. So he has rewritten the chart to place 100 tons lift at 100 STR (which if you are going by a chart, would probably the high end). Note: Since I can't read Hyperion's mind, I may be worng about his motivations, but I'd guess that I'm pretty close in this case.

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Polishing The HERO System

 

A 125 STR Hero character would have an 80' date='000,000 STR in GURPS. (a literal translation to 3rd ed GURPS)[/quote']

 

My goodness... that really is super.

[Rene]

Re: Polishing The HERO System

 

But to be fair' date=' I don't believe that anybody has suggested changing to a linear system. The change to a different exponenital model would still allow Superman to be created relatively easily (compared to a linear system). If you were to double what a character can lift with every 10 points, a character who currently would be built with 125 STR would need 240 STR under the new system. 240 is quite a bit higher than 125 but at least it is still the same number of digits. [/quote']

 

Still, 240 STR would mean to wide the combat effectiveness gap between Superman-level characters and "standard" Bricks (if there is such a thing) in a too extreme way, IMO. I don't think it would be too reflective of comics.

 

But I don't think HERO is a sacred text. I'm okay with a less steep STR table, if there was more official support for a "Lift Only" Strength mechanic, more or less like in M&M and Aberrant. So we could keep Superman's combat strength at 125 and up only his Lift. That is, if we really have to make the table less steep.

 

 

 

Interestingly enough, I think that simulating the comics is what Hyperion has in mind.

 

The problem is that, in the "offical listings" for the Marvel Universe (which Hyperion has mentioned), the strongest characters pretty much max out at 100 tons, but Hero allows characters to go far beyond this limit. Therefore, Hero does not work in the way that Hyperion expects. So he has rewritten the chart to place 100 tons lift at 100 STR (which if you are going by a chart, would probably the high end). Note: Since I can't read Hyperion's mind, I may be worng about his motivations, but I'd guess that I'm pretty close in this case.

 

I doubt there are many people left out there who respect the "official" listings they present in the Marvel Handbook. They're handy for a quick-and-dirty conversion, but even Colossus and Sub-Mariner, listed at 75-ton lift have routinely lifted much more. And I mean, routinely, not only on life-or-death situations that would allow for Pushing. Guys like Hulk and Thor can lift MUCH more than 100 tons on a routine basis.

 

Nowadays, I tend more to the side that thinks it's better to get the tonnage given in the Marvel Handbook and translate it directly into Champions STR for lifts greater than 40 tons. So, the Thing would have 85 STR, the calm Hulk would have 90-100 STR, etc.

[Agent X]

Re: Polishing The HERO System

 

I agree with you that a generic system should enable one to build a wide range of characters (alomst anything you can imagine).

 

But to be fair, I don't believe that anybody has suggested changing to a linear system. The change to a different exponenital model would still allow Superman to be created relatively easily (compared to a linear system). If you were to double what a character can lift with every 10 points, a character who currently would be built with 125 STR would need 240 STR under the new system. 240 is quite a bit higher than 125 but at least it is still the same number of digits.

 

 

A 125 STR Hero character would have an 80,000,000 STR in GURPS. (a literal translation to 3rd ed GURPS)

 

 

 

Interestingly enough, I think that simulating the comics is what Hyperion has in mind.

 

The problem is that, in the "offical listings" for the Marvel Universe (which Hyperion has mentioned), the strongest characters pretty much max out at 100 tons, but Hero allows characters to go far beyond this limit. Therefore, Hero does not work in the way that Hyperion expects. So he has rewritten the chart to place 100 tons lift at 100 STR (which if you are going by a chart, would probably the high end). Note: Since I can't read Hyperion's mind, I may be worng about his motivations, but I'd guess that I'm pretty close in this case.

The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe uses a scale that is FLATLY CONTRADICTED by the comic books! It was an arbitrary scale they came up with and has little relation to an actual description of what the characters do when it comes to heavy lifting. I have no idea why anybody who has read Marvel Comics would allow a MINI-SERIES dictate the strength of the characters to them.

[Rene]

Re: Polishing The HERO System

 

The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe uses a scale that is FLATLY CONTRADICTED by the comic books! It was an arbitrary scale they came up with and has little relation to an actual description of what the characters do when it comes to heavy lifting. I have no idea why anybody who has read Marvel Comics would allow a MINI-SERIES dictate the strength of the characters to them.

 

Well, I tried to say it more tactfully and calmly, but yes, that is basically right. The lifts listed on the Handbook are convenient to compare who is stronger than who, but the absolute values in tons seem to be off, even allowing for different writers picturing the character's powers differently.

 

I can understand the argument that in some stories, for instance, vampire tales, superstrong characters with a comparatively wimpy lift capability seem to cause great damage, but one can't forget that in such stories the vampires are hitting normal humans who should not have 15 PD, 40 STUN.

[Warp9]

Re: Polishing The HERO System

 

Still, 240 STR would mean to wide the combat effectiveness gap between Superman-level characters and "standard" Bricks (if there is such a thing) in a too extreme way, IMO. I don't think it would be too reflective of comics.

 

But I don't think HERO is a sacred text. I'm okay with a less steep STR table, if there was more official support for a "Lift Only" Strength mechanic, more or less like in M&M and Aberrant. So we could keep Superman's combat strength at 125 and up only his Lift. That is, if we really have to make the table less steep.

As far as specifically being "reflective of comics" goes, I wonder how far a generic system should go to be reflective of a specific style.

 

And comics do cover a very wide range, so what simulates one style of comic may not cover a different style all that well.

I doubt there are many people left out there who respect the "official" listings they present in the Marvel Handbook. They're handy for a quick-and-dirty conversion, but even Colossus and Sub-Mariner, listed at 75-ton lift have routinely lifted much more. And I mean, routinely, not only on life-or-death situations that would allow for Pushing. Guys like Hulk and Thor can lift MUCH more than 100 tons on a routine basis.

I would not argue that the offical listings are all that valid, but some people seem to take them fairly literally.

[Warp9]

Re: Polishing The HERO System

 

The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe uses a scale that is FLATLY CONTRADICTED by the comic books! It was an arbitrary scale they came up with and has little relation to an actual description of what the characters do when it comes to heavy lifting. I have no idea why anybody who has read Marvel Comics would allow a MINI-SERIES dictate the strength of the characters to them.

I am not arguing that it is valid, the point is that Hyperion seems to think that it is valid.

[zornwil]

Re: Polishing The HERO System

 

Surely, a bit of distortion is unavoidable, games simply aren't exactly the same as stories. For instance, the way PC groups usually have heroes with the same power point total. But this does not mean we have to cross the line into making the greatest comic book characters of all time unbuildable and unrecognizable under the system.

 

And most comic characters have worked in groups. Even those who have solo titles. There are very few exceptions (Spider-Man, Daredevil?, even they routinely work with partners that could be construed as games with 2-3 PCs).

 

Superman's power has waxed and waned, but I don't think there is any version of him that would be harder to be made to work into a Champions game than it was harder to make it work in the comics. Pre-Crisis Superman was a god, yes, and you can say that a GM would have to be very creative to craft adventures for him. But we have to note that in the Pre-Crisis universe the WRITERS themselves had to be very creative to craft stories for him too (and often failed or were forced to explore again and again stories that depended on Superman's Achilles Heels).

 

So that isn't HERO's fault, it's a flaw of that version of the character, IMO. But when GURPS can't even portray adequately the post-Crisis Superman version or the Smallville version, that works very fine in the comics and TV, then... well, I simply lose my respect for GURPS. Linear strength simply made Superman unplayable in GURPS.

As to "unbuildable and unrecognizable", surely, I agree, and I also agree that the inability to translate has, in some cases, everything to do with the "fault" (so to speak, after all, great stories were still and can still be told with uber-characters of course) of the original fiction. And, yes, I do think the point is valid. I just wasn't sure how far you were taking it - I kind of assumed you probably weren't taking it as far as I thought (after all, I should know from our prior conversations you're too sharp and insightful for that), but thought I should raise the points I did.

 

Geez, we don't have enough to drag out on this one! It's been a while since we've had a lengthy conversation.

[zornwil]

Re: Polishing The HERO System

 

Still, 240 STR would mean to wide the combat effectiveness gap between Superman-level characters and "standard" Bricks (if there is such a thing) in a too extreme way, IMO. I don't think it would be too reflective of comics.

 

But I don't think HERO is a sacred text. I'm okay with a less steep STR table, if there was more official support for a "Lift Only" Strength mechanic, more or less like in M&M and Aberrant. So we could keep Superman's combat strength at 125 and up only his Lift. That is, if we really have to make the table less steep.

 

 

 

 

 

I doubt there are many people left out there who respect the "official" listings they present in the Marvel Handbook. They're handy for a quick-and-dirty conversion, but even Colossus and Sub-Mariner, listed at 75-ton lift have routinely lifted much more. And I mean, routinely, not only on life-or-death situations that would allow for Pushing. Guys like Hulk and Thor can lift MUCH more than 100 tons on a routine basis.

 

Nowadays, I tend more to the side that thinks it's better to get the tonnage given in the Marvel Handbook and translate it directly into Champions STR for lifts greater than 40 tons. So, the Thing would have 85 STR, the calm Hulk would have 90-100 STR, etc.

I agree one could rescale a lot of the attributes of STR in HERO and still have a fine system. I do think going linear gets very difficult and is really a disadvantage to the expression of how one could lift greater weights but the actual imparting of damage wouldn't really be that much more - this is something HERO does elegantly.

 

For some odd reason, I used to have a scale where Superman's movement of the Earth (which in some incarnation was roughly around his top strength as he had to strain to do so) was expressed as 1000 STR in HERO and everything scaled, with some odd breakpoints, to that. It worked out pretty well for how I wanted to do things then (limit the lift of STR to something I called "realistic") though now I don't really know why I did that!

[Warp9]

Re: Polishing The HERO System

 

The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe uses a scale that is FLATLY CONTRADICTED by the comic books!

Given the nature of comic books, ANY hard numbers are bound to be contradicted at some point, by some comic.

 

Events that happen in the comic books are probably more often based on what a given writer thinks would be exciting, rather than being based on a desire for internal consistancy. And probably many comic book writers are simply not very well informed about what a given object would weigh.

 

I have no idea why anybody who has read Marvel Comics would allow a MINI-SERIES dictate the strength of the characters to them.

Maybe because it did call itself the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe. And maybe because it did try to put hard numbers to the abilities of various characters, which is very different from a normal comic book or mini-series.

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Polishing The HERO System

 

And probably many comic book writers are simply not very well informed about what a given object would weigh.

 

In general, I think comicbook characters' strength is reflected in how large an object they can lift, rather than how massive an object they can lift.

[Rene]

Re: Polishing The HERO System

 

As far as specifically being "reflective of comics" goes, I wonder how far a generic system should go to be reflective of a specific style.

 

And comics do cover a very wide range, so what simulates one style of comic may not cover a different style all that well.

 

 

The question is, in what direction should you go?

 

There are other instances of +5 pts = x2 of non-combat measurement in the rules. Noncombat Movement, Density Increase and Growth's extra weight, extra weight for Teleport, ED-Movement, UOO attacks...

 

You can keep the rule as it is, and buy HA if you want your 30 STR brick dishing out more damage. In extremely realistic games, you could even buy a HKA and/or Armor Piercing to better represent how superstrength is portrayed.

 

Or you can make the table less steep and make the high-level bricks buy extra STR with the Only to Lift Lim. Either way would be fine with me. Perhaps they should make a official ruling about how much extra Lifting STR would cost.

[Agent X]

Re: Polishing The HERO System

 

Given the nature of comic books, ANY hard numbers are bound to be contradicted at some point, by some comic.

 

Events that happen in the comic books are probably more often based on what a given writer thinks would be exciting, rather than being based on a desire for internal consistancy. And probably many comic book writers are simply not very well informed about what a given object would weigh.

Yep. The problem with OHOTMU is not that there are some contradcitions but there are more contradictions than there is support for the weights expressed for individuals such as Thor, the Hulk, the Vision, etc.

 

 

Maybe because it did call itself the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe. And maybe because it did try to put hard numbers to the abilities of various characters' date=' which is very different from a normal comic book or mini-series.[/quote'] Yeah, I just have read way too many stories and do have a clue about the weight of things to buy the stats in OHOTMU.

[Warp9]

Re: Polishing The HERO System

 

In general' date=' I think comicbook characters' strength is reflected in how [i']large[/i] an object they can lift, rather than how massive an object they can lift.

Yeah, I think that you are pretty much on the money with that observation.

[Warp9]

Re: Polishing The HERO System

 

The question is, in what direction should you go?

I don't normally play Champions, and I question the idea that the Hero system should be all about the super-hero genre, so I wouldn't mind seeing the system spread out the curve a bit.

 

But at the same time, I don't think that changing the current set up is that big of a deal.

There are other instances of +5 pts = x2 of non-combat measurement in the rules. Noncombat Movement, Density Increase and Growth's extra weight, extra weight for Teleport, ED-Movement, UOO attacks...

Also, as I've pointed out previously, firearms follow a +1 dc per doubling of kinetic energy as well.

 

The curve is not just about STR, the rest of the system also follows the same scale. So if the STR chart gets changed, then everything else should as well. If STR is X2 per 10 points, then it sould be +10 = X2 across the board.

 

A .44 mag would go from 2d6 RKA to 3d6+1 RKA.

An HMG would go from 3d6 RKA to 5d6+1 RKA.

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Polishing The HERO System

 

The curve is not just about STR' date=' the rest of the system also follows the same scale. So if the STR chart gets changed, then everything else should as well. If STR is X2 per 10 points, then it sould be +10 = X2 across the board. A .44 mag would go from 2d6 RKA to 3d6+1 RKA. An HMG would go from 3d6 RKA to 5d6+1 RKA.[/quote']

 

Concomitantly, defenses would have to be adjusted as well: made one-half as expensive.

[Rene]

Re: Polishing The HERO System

 

I don't normally play Champions' date=' and I question the idea that the Hero system should be all about the super-hero genre, so I wouldn't mind seeing the system spread out the curve a bit.[/quote']

 

There is one thing about the superhero genre beyond personal preferences, though: it's vast and varied. Superhero stories have vampires, mages, psis, cyborgs, and normal humans. While horror, fantasy, SF, etc. usually aren't so versatile. If there is a doubt, I think a "universal" system should err on the side of supers.

 

GURPS and HERO made me realize one thing: it's far easier to scale down and house rule a cinematic game to make it more realistic than to go the opposite direction and insert supers and cinematic action into a more realism-oriented system.

[Warp9]

Re: Polishing The HERO System

 

Concomitantly, defenses would have to be adjusted as well: made one-half as expensive.

You'd still be buying 1 dc per 5 points. So 20 points of def would still work the same against 20 points of attack. Therefore the cost of defenses would not have to be adjusted.

 

The difference would be in terms of the larger picture.

 

A 30 STR would still do 6d6, but (in the larger picture) it would no longer be a super-human value.

 

A 45 point 3d6 RKA would still follow the same rules, but it would be less than a .44 magnum in the new setup.

 

You would need more points to build an Olympic Athelete or a .44 magnum, and you would need more points to defend agianst these things as well, so it would all balance out.

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Polishing The HERO System

 

You'd still be buying 1 dc per 5 points. So 20 points of def would still work the same against 20 points of attack. Therefore the cost of defenses would not have to be adjusted.

 

Ah, I see. Duh. Not sure what I was thinking, there.

[Warp9]

Re: Polishing The HERO System

 

There is one thing about the superhero genre beyond personal preferences, though: it's vast and varied. Superhero stories have vampires, mages, psis, cyborgs, and normal humans. While horror, fantasy, SF, etc. usually aren't so versatile. If there is a doubt, I think a "universal" system should err on the side of supers.

While I agree with much of what you've just said, some of it is confusing to me. Are we discussing flexibility or power-levels?

 

I thought we were looking at different power levels, and looking at what scale might be best for Hero.

 

I'd agree that comic-books feature a wide variety of power levels. But what about Sci-Fi like Star Trek? Star Trek characters include normal humans but also high-power entities like Q. Q seems to have almost infinite power, so I can't see how comic-books actually feature a larger range of power levels.

 

If it is a question of flexibility, I agree that a universal system should be flexible.

 

The super-hero genre is (at least as far as I understand it) more than just: vampires, mages, psis, cyborgs, and normal humans. Yes, it has those elements (in fact, it has elements from most other genres). But it also has some specific limitations (or genre rules) which are specific to super-hero style games.

 

Or to put it in a different way, it is very possible to have super-human beings in a game with out having any sort of comic book feel to it. So a game can accomodate super-human entities, without having any other elements from a comic book genre.

 

Side Note: I even started a thread focusing on genre and how it impacts rpgs (it also explores some of the specifics of the super-hero genre), I'd be interested to get your input on this topic. . . .

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=312

 

But anyway, the point is that while I agree with the idea that a Universal System should cover vampires, mages, psis, cyborgs, and normal humans. I still don't see why it should be specifically linked to comic book style games, or a comic book style power curve.

 

GURPS and HERO made me realize one thing: it's far easier to scale down and house rule a cinematic game to make it more realistic than to go the opposite direction and insert supers and cinematic action into a more realism-oriented system.

That is an interesting concept, but I do not agree.

 

IMO a realism oriented system needs to be more consistent than one which in not concerned with realism. Unfortunately, trying to get realism by patching on a number of house rules often has the reverse effect.

 

Your suggestion about buying extra-damage to simulate higher damage from STR in a realistic game is a good example of what I'm talking about. I would have a problem with that method, especially in a realistic game, because STR damage would then be based on a different scale than firearm damage. Which in turn would make the game less consistant and thus IMO less believable.

[Yog Sothoth]

Re: Polishing The HERO System

 

Problem GRANULARITY: Known by all on this thread already.

 

Here are my 2 cents solutions to add to the melting pot, taken from house rules I wrote while ago. Scuzy for any mistakes or if this was already proposed on the thread already:

 

3 possible solutions:

 

(1) - In Skill VS Skill or Char VS Char Contest, when a TIE is rolled, the higher characteristics always wins.

 

(2) - In skill, damage, CHAR uses, when relevant to do so, there is always a chance that a lower CHAR or skill will equal a higher break level. Damage is pretty much rules by break points of 5 STR, Skill/CHAR rolls also by breaks of 5 each. 10STR does 2D6N. 15STR does 3D6N. 10DEX implies 11- dex roll. 15DEX implies 12- dex roll. In all cases, if you have STR13, DEX12, etc you find yourself in the granualrity zone problem. This is far less a problem for the Supers genre since char are usually ridiculously high. But not for the heroic genre.

Add a D6 dice to the tray, lets call it the Granul Dice (D6). Just like the Stun dice for killing damage. Whenever a char roll is rolled, or STR is used for CHAR stuck in between breakpoints (i.e. ending in 1,2,3,4), in any way, use the dice. If the result od the dice is equal to the last digit of the char + 1, then for that roll, the Char is treated as being at the next breakpoint level. So for 11STR (2D6N) means the Char Dice needs a roll of 2 or less (1+1). If successful, the for that one shot, treat the STR as 15 (3D6). Same goes for char or skill uses. A 13 DEX (11- dex roll), the Char Dice need to roll 4 or less (3+1). If success, the DEX is treated as 15 (next breakpoint) for that roll only, so the dex roll becomes 12- (or gets a +1 bonus, same thing). And etc etc for all the rest of the Game. Result of 1 on the Char Dice is always a succes, and 6 always a failure.

 

(3) - Some tasks can be assigned by the GM for which a certain minimum level of characteristics (often paired with a step on the Time Chart), Char Min, is needed to try the task. Those with characteristics lower either simply cannot or suffer penalties based of the rules for STR Min (Char Min in this case). Suffer a –1 to the roll per 5 Char below, or get a +1 bonus per full 5 Char above. Same goes for the time chart, a step lower on the time chart imposes a –3 penalty, while a step higher, if times permit, grants a +1 bonus (as per the official rules).

 

Example: A GM defines a Strange and Ancien Relic of Chutgha as –4 (18 INT minimum, 1 hour min study) to analyse with an anthropology roll. Gustave come to the museum at night, in the hope of discovering what ancien secrets are held within the relic. Gustaves is 11 INT, with an anthropologie roll of 16- (he is considered somewhat an expert in England on the subject, albeight a slight dumb one). He is at –4 from the start. His 11 INT compares to the 18 INT min, giving him a further –2 (twice 5 char steps lower than 18). He roll his Char Dice and gets a 3 (failure for 11, so no +1 bonus on his roll). So his effective skill then becomes 16-4-2+0 = 10-. Gustave looks at his watch and decides to take some aditional time, cause, baby that thing is hard to comprehend!!.So Gustave spends 5 hours (1 step more than 1 hour on the time chart for a +1 bonus) studying the Relic of Chutgha, giving him a final roll of 11-. Good luck Gustave, this is your chance to finally make it big.

 

That was that.

[Warp9]

Re: Polishing The HERO System

 

My suggestion: get rid of all the linear stuff.

 

Everything should follow the same consistent exponential curve. For example, combat flight should no longer be 2 points for 1 hex, instead it should be X points to double.

[Agent X]

Re: Polishing The HERO System

 

I have no idea why you guys think everything in the system must use the same "concept." Why does combat flight need to double for every five points just because lifting capacity doubles on strength?

 

It's like that attempt to come up with one uniform framework. What's the point? I see nothing practical about. It seems to be an aesthetic issue which is generally a poor motivation for changing a tested 20+year old rules system.

[Warp9]

Re: Polishing The HERO System

 

I have no idea why you guys think everything in the system must use the same "concept." Why does combat flight need to double for every five points just because lifting capacity doubles on strength?

Maybe because I want a character who can actually fly at Mach 3 in combat.

 

Maybe because I want to be able to hit something at Mach 3 without doing enough damage to literally destroy the planet several times over. Currently a Mach 3 character with SPD 4 would do over 300d6 on a move through using the default rules.

 

And I don't think that asking for a combat velocity of Mach 3 is that extreme for a game that allows characters to throw around air-craft carriors for 100 points.