Champs Universe Question

[Metaphysician]

Re: Champs Universe Question

 

Presumably, the same thing that happens to special forces troops that retire.

 

They retire.

[OddHat]

Re: Champs Universe Question

 

In my Champions campaigns I've always assumed that the military maintains its own Supersoldier program, largely out of sight of the public, and that every nation does more or less the same. Even if Cyberline is not the drug of choice, something will be.

[Onslaught]

Re: Champs Universe Question

 

I understand but pick a number. Suppose the cyberline treatment costs $250' date='000. Now imagine you need 4 treatments a year to stay "buff." That is one million dollars a year to create and maintain a silver avenger. There is a reason why there are not too many of them in primus. Fielding a battalion of cyberline-enhanced solders would be expensive and would mean they need additional "downtime" due to needing additional treatments. Being a soldier would also put them at a high risk of being killed by weapon's fire; even stray weapon's fire. The army get the current soldiers for what? $1,500 a month and another $2,000 of equipment? [/quote']

 

 

I am not saying that an active superhero recruitment for the military would not be necessary but I am saying that using the Silver Avenger process for them would not be a good idea.

 

1. Even using the $250,000 a quarter cost to keep them buffed as a starting point, the question is how much would it cost to train and equip them initially. Lets say $500,000 initial investment in equipment and training on top of the $250,000 for the cyberline drugs. That is $1,500,000 for the first year and $1,000,000 a year after that. Now lets take the M-1 Abrams initial cost of $4,300,000 and add to that an operating cost of $25,000 for fuel and ammo in peace time (this is just a guess and doesn’t take into account the crew). This would put the operating cost of an M-1 for 10 years at $4,550,000 while the Silver Avenger for the same period is $10,500,000. This makes it very expensive to run the Silver Avengers, especially when all the Silver Avengers would be doing during peace time is train.

 

2. Also during peace time the military can always mothball some of the M-1's but keep enough for operational deployment and training and have a ready reserve for time of war. They can’t do that for the Silver Avengers.

 

3. Now if I remember correctly, in the 4th edition book “Classic Organizations†the personnel to fill the ranks of Silver Avengers are drawn heavily from the ranks of the active duty special forces. They are put on detached duty and deputize by the DOJ. I don’t know if that is the way it is going to be done in the 5th edition but it makes perfect sense. They are already highly trained in combat prior to being made a Silver Avenger, they can be called back to active duty if the need arises, they get a great deal of practical experience in the use of their abilities, and finally the tax payers get a practical return for their money. A win-win scenario if I ever heard one.

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Champs Universe Question

 

3.Now if I remember correctly' date=' in the 4th edition book “Classic Organizations†the personnel to fill the ranks of Silver Avengers are drawn heavily from the ranks of the active duty special forces. They are put on detached duty and deputize by the DOJ. I don’t know if that is the way it is going to be done in the 5th edition but it makes perfect sense. They are already highly trained in combat prior to being made a Silver Avenger, they can be called back to active duty if the need arises, they get a great deal of practical experience in the use of their abilities, and finally the tax payers get a practical return for their money. A win-win scenario if I ever heard one.[/quote']

 

This was my basic understanding too. Cyberline, esp the higher-level treatments, doesn't work for everyone. Those in the military that are capable of handling it are seconded over to PRIMUS.

[Slim_McCoy]

Re: Champs Universe Question

 

The main detrrants to rampant super-solidiers are...

[*]Hysteria (Think Mutant Hysteria; As soon as one of these guys decides he doesn't want to do the 'right thing' then you've got a fearful public)

 

Or the Super Soldier decides that he is a better judge of what the 'right thing' is.

 

"Guilty or innocent... is a matter of timing."

-Judge Rico

[Mutant for Hire]

Re: Champs Universe Question

 

Presumably, the same thing that happens to special forces troops that retire.

 

They retire.

 

The situation is not totally analogous. Remember that with other soliders, the superspecial equipment that they are issued is handed back in. The fact is that the military spends millions giving these people enhanced abilities which are essentially built into the characters and can't be returned, which make them a powerful asset.

 

Of course you can say the same thing about special forces and the skills that they are given. Even so, I wonder if the army is just going to cut them loose and forget about them, or will make some effort to find some way to get use of them even after they're no longer capable/willing to be elite special forces.

 

In the case of the cybernetic augmentation program, it's a little easier as expensive hardware can often be swapped out for civilian grade hardware, but for the biological types, it's not as easy.

[OddHat]

Re: Champs Universe Question

 

The situation is not totally analogous. Remember that with other soliders, the superspecial equipment that they are issued is handed back in. The fact is that the military spends millions giving these people enhanced abilities which are essentially built into the characters and can't be returned, which make them a powerful asset.

 

Of course you can say the same thing about special forces and the skills that they are given. Even so, I wonder if the army is just going to cut them loose and forget about them, or will make some effort to find some way to get use of them even after they're no longer capable/willing to be elite special forces.

 

In the case of the cybernetic augmentation program, it's a little easier as expensive hardware can often be swapped out for civilian grade hardware, but for the biological types, it's not as easy.

 

Which makes for an excellent plot hook in a gritty campaign. "No retirement for you Major Disaster; the army has invested millions in those oversized muscles of yours, and you will re-enlist! You still have one eye!"

 

In a Silver Age campaign, the retired but still powerful biologicals can move into the FBI or local polie forces that would be glad to get the services of even a "washed up" super.

[Mutant for Hire]

Re: Champs Universe Question

 

Which makes for an excellent plot hook in a gritty campaign. "No retirement for you Major Disaster; the army has invested millions in those oversized muscles of yours, and you will re-enlist! You still have one eye!"

A very lucrative job for augmented ex-military is mercenary. Which is one of the reasons I think the psychological screening of these types is going to be intense. The recruitment is primarily going to be for "lifers" of one sort or another, people willing to go into a lifetime of government service.

 

The senior augmented types can be turned into instructors and transfered back to regular troops (or even "regular" special forces as their augmentations offset the decay of abilities due to aging). It's going to be a while I think before these people are let off the leash.

 

Of course these people can also become soured on the idea of lifetime government service after a few bad experiences where the US did something dirty in another part of the world. Which means that those who want to quit may not be given the option, leading to exciting plot hook possibilities.

In a Silver Age campaign, the retired but still powerful biologicals can move into the FBI or local polie forces that would be glad to get the services of even a "washed up" super.

In general, I think that transfering from the DoD to the DoJ would be a very popular option even in the Iron Age. The DoJ is going to be screaming for supers directly attached to them, and if the army is churning out patriotic and dedicated augmentives, the DoJ will want any spares.