Bazza Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Re: Musings on Random Musings This style of journalism is difficult' date=' expensive, and generates less readership than a fluff piece on the Kardashians. But it's not dead... yet.[/quote'] that is encouraging They're working on that' date=' though.[/quote'] They just got new guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Re: Musings on Random Musings The reality' date=' however, is that many people have had lives ruined by said press reporting, after they were proven innocent.[/quote'] I'm well aware of it. I used to be a private investigator who worked felony defense cases. I've had clients whose lives and reputations were ruined. But I would rather have a free press we had to criticize than an unfree press, which is no press at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Re: Musings on Random Musings And feeding the random nature of the thread' date=' one of my pet peeves in addressing people is people who feel that it is reasonable for them to be on a first name basis with you without you also being on a first name basis with them. I.e. people that feel that it is okay to call me Gary, but insist I call them "Mr. Whatever" or "Dr. Whatever" or somesuch.[/quote'] I live in Israel. Trust me, I share your peeve. Its culturally normative for people to call anyone and everyone by their first names. It drives me crazy when children call me by my first name. I would have been hung out to dry if I'd call my parents friends by their first names. I've seen privates call officers by their first names in semi-informal circumstances. And, people who don't know me often walk up and call me "Gabby." Excuse me, what? My wife doesn't call me that. Gavriel, David, Mr. Queenann are all acceptable. If you are under eighteen, let's stick with "Mr." I've had to tell one of our radio techs, when calling members of the knesset to put them on the air, not to call them by nicknames or their first name. Its "Hevre Knesset [surname]," not "Tzipi." If you are dealing with someone in their professional capacity its good manners to use their titles and I advocate it. Outside of those circumstances, I am generally opposed to all forms of pretense. If the cultural norm is first names, use the entire first name until you know otherwise. If the cultural norm is Mr./Ms. use that. There is a healthy and polite realm between puffy punctiliousness and insouciant informality. It is the golden mean people should strive for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Re: Musings on Random Musings If it bugs you that much, I think you joined the wrong culture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Re: Musings on Random Musings In my line of work, approximately everyone has a doctorate. It's rare for anyone to insist on something other than simple first names (unless, of course, there are too many Toms, e.g., in the room for that to work) when among one's peers. And, when sending a mail (electronic or otherwise) it's handy to just use the "Dr." salutation so you don't have to figure out whether the addressee is male or female. Another situation: How about addressing your clergyman (assuming you are/were "churched")? Do you omit the "Father" or "Reverend" (or whatever) when you address them? Few enough of us now interact with clergy (and I admit I am among those who approximately never do) that I would be interested to know if that differs from how one addresses teachers/professors. For me its a question of context. These are all social mores rather than rules. If you are dealing with someone in their professional capacity, or a classroom setting, then relevant titles and formalities are generally appropriate. Being a peer or long association may change that, but in general we start out formal and loosen up with time. At A7, we air a weekly archeology show. The hosts usually have a two segment interview with an archeologist with a segment before and after. Because we are calling them to talk about their profession we always refer to them as professor or doctor as appropriate. If I were dealing with these archeologists in a social setting I would call them by their first name because using the Hebrew equivalent of "Mr." is generally looked askance at. For some reason, if an Israeli is calling you "adon [surname]," they are either trying to appease you or sell you something. Clergy, however, is a very sticky wicket. A clergyman fills a position of respect on a communal level (rather like a president, cabinet member, senior legislator). Their role as a spiritual leader requires they always be in their professional character and context. And how you address them is regarded as representative of the office they hold. It may be, in private, they ask you to call them by their personal name, but in general the social mores is that "it is not done." On the other hand, that's for someone who holds the position. I have my little ordination paper-thingy. I DO NOT like being addressed as "rabbi" and will Gibb's head-slap anyone who tries it. I am not a communal leader. I'm a private citizen who passed some tests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Re: Musings on Random Musings If it bugs you that much' date=' I think you joined the wrong culture.[/quote'] I'm happy here. It doesn't mean there aren't adjustments to be made. And it doesn't mean you can't raise the bar through force of will and personal example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Re: Musings on Random Musings It seems to me that you ought to try to adjust yourself. But I see where you're coming from. If I were to move to the US, I'd practically have to force the word "sir" out from between clenched teeth -- it represents, to me at least, that the person so adressed should be viewed as some sort of better person than me. My dad just popped in to say ta seden dit du kommer, i. e. "When in Rome" ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Re: Musings on Random Musings It seems to me that you ought to try to adjust yourself. It seems to me I've made an international move and I'm thriving. I must be doing something right. Back off, why don't you? I realized several years ago I don't have to be "Israeli" to succeed. You don't have to give up your identity and values to thrive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Re: Musings on Random Musings Sorry if that came across as an imperative -- it was just an observation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Re: Musings on Random Musings I've always tried to use the polite form of address. "yes sir", or " Yes Ma'am" are pretty naturla to me. I use them for everyone but friends/coworkers. I even thank my waiter/waitress when they come by to fill my glass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archermoo Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Re: Musings on Random Musings I live in Israel. Trust me' date=' I share your peeve. Its culturally normative for people to call anyone and everyone by their first names. It drives me crazy when children call me by my first name. I would have been hung out to dry if I'd call my parents friends by their first names. I've seen privates call officers by their first names in semi-informal circumstances. And, people who don't know me often walk up and call me "Gabby." Excuse me, what? My [u']wife[/u] doesn't call me that. Gavriel, David, Mr. Queenann are all acceptable. If you are under eighteen, let's stick with "Mr." I've had to tell one of our radio techs, when calling members of the knesset to put them on the air, not to call them by nicknames or their first name. Its "Hevre Knesset [surname]," not "Tzipi." If you are dealing with someone in their professional capacity its good manners to use their titles and I advocate it. Outside of those circumstances, I am generally opposed to all forms of pretense. If the cultural norm is first names, use the entire first name until you know otherwise. If the cultural norm is Mr./Ms. use that. There is a healthy and polite realm between puffy punctiliousness and insouciant informality. It is the golden mean people should strive for. I mostly agree with you. The only exception I might make would be in regards to children. As I said, I don't agree with cases that one person is on a first name basis when the reverse isn't true. If it isn't okay for a child to call me "Gary", then it isn't okay for me to call them by their first name either. If I have to be Mr. Denney, then they should be Mr. {Surname} too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Re: Musings on Random Musings I have my little ordination paper-thingy. I DO NOT like being addressed as "rabbi" and will Gibb's head-slap anyone who tries it. I am not a communal leader. I'm a private citizen who passed some tests. this would be like a person completing a bachelor of theology. Completing this doesn't mean a person is to be addressed as a priest. Is this a good analogy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveZilla Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Re: Musings on Random Musings It seems to me that you ought to try to adjust yourself. But I see where you're coming from. If I were to move to the US, I'd practically have to force the word "sir" out from between clenched teeth -- it represents, to me at least, that the person so addressed should be viewed as some sort of better person than me. My dad just popped in to say ta seden dit du kommer, i. e. "When in Rome" ... Would you have a similar problem addressing, say, a court judge as "Your Honor"? Or is it just a problem with that one word? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Re: Musings on Random Musings Titles and honorifics of any kind does not sit well with me, having grown up in a land where everyone calls everyone else by their first name. By Vondy's description, we're not so dissimilar to the Israelis in that respect, even if we generally don't hand out nicknames to people we hardly know. I mean, the Prime Minister is adressed as Fredrik, all the head honchos at the hospital where I'm at introduced themselves as their first name only ... We run on first names, it seems. Surnames is just to make the bookkeeping tidier. ^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Re: Musings on Random Musings Titles and honorifics of any kind does not sit well with me' date=' having grown up in a land where everyone calls everyone else by their first name. By Vondy's description, we're not so dissimilar to the Israelis in that respect, even if we generally don't hand out nicknames to people we hardly know. I mean, the Prime Minister is adressed as Fredrik, all the head honchos at the hospital where I'm at introduced themselves as their first name only ... We run on first names, it seems. Surnames is just to make the bookkeeping tidier. ^^[/quote'] Everyone calls you "Leif"? (darn, not sure if it is spelt "Lief"). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Re: Musings on Random Musings Lief Garret or Lief Ericsson? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Re: Musings on Random Musings Lief Marcus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Re: Musings on Random Musings Leif is my second name, though it's written first. Marcus is my name, med school is my game, fo sho! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Re: Musings on Random Musings Leif is my second name' date=' though it's written first. Marcus is my name, med school is my game, fo sho![/quote'] Oh, thanks for clearing that up. Edit: by second name you mean surname or middle name? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Re: Musings on Random Musings Since it's first it's not the middle name, but the concept's the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Re: Musings on Random Musings Since it's first it's not the middle name' date=' but the concept's the same.[/quote'] Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Re: Musings on Random Musings So, in effect, You go by your middle name instead of your first name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Re: Musings on Random Musings We don't use those terms. Leif and Marcus are my förnamn, first names, but Marcus is my tilltalsnamn, "name for being adressed". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klytus Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Re: Musings on Random Musings The hosts comment: "Gav' date=' how do I block this guy?"[/quote'] With extreme prejudice! Dear L_RD that man is a loon! He could keep an entire team of psychiatrists gainfully employed for a decade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archermoo Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Re: Musings on Random Musings "But in this ever-changing world in which we live in" has got to be the most annoying lyric ever written. Dude' date=' it's "In which we live" or "Which we live in," NOT BOTH!!! [/quote'] Yeah, that one has bothered me since I first heard it. Normally he does so much better... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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