Two weapon fighting and the Dai-sho

[pinecone]

I'm in the middle of a martial artist who cary the Dai sho. This is how I built it....+1 with HTH (5 points) HKA 11/2 D6 OAF, and +1 HTH HKA 1D6 +1 OAF...for something like 19 pts for the Katana and 17 for the wakazashi, and then I threw in Kenjutsu,WF:Off hand, some DC's and 2 levels with Kenjustsu, and KS: Kenjutsu and KS:Karate...and a friend suggested I needed to toss in Two weapon fighting...I did not think I needed that because the way I built the swords I would just "Multi-power attack" if I wanted to do the old "one-two"....I've decided to seek the opinions of others, is Two weapon fighting nessisary or can I just multi-power attack because I purchased the swords as seperate powers? Thanx...

[JeffreyWKramer]

Re: Two weapon fighting and the Dai-sho

 

I'm in the middle of a martial artist who cary the Dai sho. This is how I built it....+1 with HTH (5 points) HKA 11/2 D6 OAF' date=' and +1 HTH HKA 1D6 +1 OAF...for something like 19 pts for the Katana and 17 for the wakazashi, and then I threw in Kenjutsu,WF:Off hand, some DC's and 2 levels with Kenjustsu, and KS: Kenjutsu and KS:Karate...and a friend suggested I needed to toss in Two weapon fighting...I did not think I needed that because the way I built the swords I would just "Multi-power attack" if I wanted to do the old "one-two"....I've decided to seek the opinions of others, is Two weapon fighting nessisary or can I just multi-power attack because I purchased the swords as seperate powers? Thanx...[/quote']

 

Partly this depends on genre. For genres other than Champions/Super-Hero, Multiple Power Attack is usually iffy at best, and Two-Weapon Fighting is more in genre. If you require the swords to make separate attack rolls, you can't do that with Multiple Power Attack, as MPA requires one attack roll. Similarly, if the character is ever going to want to attack different opponents with each weapon, 2WF is the way to go, as without that, you take the normal penalties for fighting with two weapons.

 

In general, this is a case where I personally would strongly favor 2WF, even within the superhero genre. Individual mileage may vary, of course.

[JMHammer]

Re: Two weapon fighting and the Dai-sho

 

I don't think a character should be able to declare a multi-power attack just by dint of having two swords or two guns or two arms.

 

Here's an old thread which went into this in detail:

http://herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7203

 

My take on this, extracted from that thread:

---

My TWF houserule

 

To make Two-Weapon Fighting worth its points, I use the rule as written and add the following:

 

1- If a character with TWF makes a sweep attack composed of exactly two attacks defined as one attack from each of the two weapons in use, and makes both of these attacks against the same target, the character does not suffer any DCV penalty from the sweep.

 

2- If a character with TWF (HTH) has one valid weapon in each hand, but uses only one of them - or neither of them - to attack, he gains +1 DCV vs HTH attacks and +1 OCV to perform the Block maneuver. This bonus is not cumulative with any DCV bonus that might be provided by the weapon type, such as that provided by a main-gauche.

 

3- A character with TWF may ready for combat use two weapons already on his person with a single half-phase action unless some other rule or accepted practice allows this to occur more quickly.

 

I don't allow many Multiple Power Attacks, which makes TWF even more valuable in my games. I do allow characters that have, say, both Energy Blast and Flash - defined as different settings on the same weapon or different aspects of their innate ability to zap things out of their own bodies - to define using both as an MPA. Similarly, a character with a no-range Drain can apply that effect plus a punch or other HTH maneuver with the Drain as an MPA in most cases, depending on special effect. However, Tommy Two-Guns can't have a pair of Colt Peacemakers and MPA with them.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Two weapon fighting and the Dai-sho

 

I would have to agree with the two above posters. Depending on genre and setting, TWC may be more appropriate than MPA, and in any case, Sweep/TWC is superior to MPA in the fact that you can target multiple opponents.

 

Also remember that MPA means you can attack with each seperate power only once apiece; that means one attack with the Katana, one with the Wakizashi. With TWC or Sweep, you can make as many attacks as your OCV can handle and your GM will allow. With TWC, 1 or 2 attacks are at -0 OCV. 3 attacks at -2, 4 attacks at -4 etc. Against scrubbs this can be a very effective way of clearing rooms quickly. Cinematic samurai do this kind of thing regularly (Rurouni Kenshi, Lone Wolf and Cub, Blind Swordsman etc)

 

I'd say its more in character to go with TWC, unless of course you could use the points elsewhere more...but at least save up some XP to purchase it later.

[cutsleeve]

Re: Two weapon fighting and the Dai-sho

 

Zatoichi : D

[pinecone]

Re: Two weapon fighting and the Dai-sho

 

Ok...I'm convinced, I'll plump down the 10 points then....I cansee two weapon fighting have thease effects, Rapid attack,Sweep and 2 PSLs vs those attacks, that seems like enough to justify it. I'm sorry I should have made it clear this was a Super character. Because I'm paying Full points for the attacks I'd expect to be able to Multi-power attack if I wanted too...in fact I expect to anyway because in my mind if I build a MA with a killing attack, that give catre blanc to the GM to throw lots of killing in my direction,and 1/2 dcv is no place to be facing an UZI! Thanx for the input....

[Rick]

Re: Two weapon fighting and the Dai-sho

 

We use an optional that set the DCV minus at -2 instead of 1/2. This makes more sence to us, plus it really makes it worth the 10 pts.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Two weapon fighting and the Dai-sho

 

I still apply the 1/2DCV penalty in my games, but what I do is include WF: Offhand as a part of TWC for free and in addition, I allow Block/Strike combinations in the same phase for those who use TWC, which is not allowable under the normal combat rules...thats the benefit my players get for dropping a full 10pts on TWC.

[cutsleeve]

Re: Two weapon fighting and the Dai-sho

 

well mpa 's are subject to GM aproval as a Gm id say no to a multipower attack with 2 hand weapons because thats what sweep and two weapon fighting are for. plus dont forget to purchase WF: Off Hand for added oomf.

[Vondy]

Re: Two weapon fighting and the Dai-sho

 

And remember, with TWF, you can theoretically sweep or rapid attack with each weapon. Whirlwind attack or hail of bullets anyone? Of course, you'll need a lot of skill levels to make it worth while, but if you've got 'em its sooooooooo cool!

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Two weapon fighting and the Dai-sho

 

And remember' date=' with TWF, you can theoretically sweep or rapid attack with each weapon. Whirlwind attack or hail of bullets anyone? Of course, you'll need a lot of skill levels to make it worth while, but if you've got 'em its sooooooooo cool![/quote']

 

Well, TWF is a specialized version of Sweep, The SFX of which are two weapons (one per hand). All the rules for Sweep apply to TWF (full phase, 1/2DCV etc) except the bonuses inherent withing TWF allow one to make 2 attacks at no OCV penalty. One can continue the Sweep maneuver and take additional OCV penalties based on the total number of attacks. You don't need to Sweep each weapon seperately. Besides, that would be far too difficult to accomplish, even in a Superheroic game.

[Vondy]

Re: Two weapon fighting and the Dai-sho

 

Well' date=' TWF is a specialized version of [i']Sweep[/i], The SFX of which are two weapons (one per hand). All the rules for Sweep apply to TWF (full phase, 1/2DCV etc) except the bonuses inherent withing TWF allow one to make 2 attacks at no OCV penalty. One can continue the Sweep maneuver and take additional OCV penalties based on the total number of attacks. You don't need to Sweep each weapon seperately. Besides, that would be far too difficult to accomplish, even in a Superheroic game.

I'm aware of what TWF is. I'm also aware of the mechanics involved. I wouldn't ordinarily allow it, but if it fit the intended effect I would. As for the difficulty - I think the difficulty would be based on the SFX.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Two weapon fighting and the Dai-sho

 

I'm aware of what TWF is. I'm also aware of the mechanics involved. I wouldn't ordinarily allow it' date=' but if it fit the intended effect I would. As for the difficulty - I think the difficulty would be based on the SFX.[/quote']

 

Okay. For a second there it sounded like you meant to apply penalties for sweeping each weapon seperately.

[pinecone]

Re: Two weapon fighting and the Dai-sho

 

I am planning to split the diff and always sweep an even number of times, then have 1/2 be Katana and 1/2 be wakazashi. I've Always played with Multi-power attacks so I guess that is why they seem natural for me though ultimatly that ball is not in my court......

[pinecone]

Re: Two weapon fighting and the Dai-sho

 

P.S> A "almost finished" version is over on the Chanps section under "What else do I need" or something like that...