Any Suggestions for a Hero Newbie?

[Cmonkey]

I've been roleplaying for years, so I'm not a newbie in that regard. I was a GURPS-exclusive player for a while, but am considering either switching to Hero or focusing purely on finishing my own RPG system design.

 

From what I've read and heard about Hero, I should be fairly comfortable picking it up and running it. What I was wondering is (if I do decide to go with Hero) do any 'vets' have advice for me on making the switch?

[OddHat]

Re: Any Suggestions for a Hero Newbie?

 

I went back and forth between GURPS and Hero for years; both have their strengths.

 

When swithing to Hero, what you'l notice most is the reduced lethality of attacks; after that you may notice how much easier it is to break things. All and all this is a good thing for Superhero and high violence Action Movie games, but you'll have to tweak the rules if you're looking for something more deadly.

 

Buy the villains books for the genres you're playing; they'll teach you a lot about character design, and they'll come in handy.

[Old Man]

Re: Any Suggestions for a Hero Newbie?

 

One of the best things about using Hero over designing your own system is that most of the work is already done for you.

 

Hero is very versatile, I can't think of a genre that it can't do.

 

As far as buying stuff goes, see if you can get your hands on Sidekick first. It's only $10 and has all of the necessary rules in it. The more detailed bits can be found in the big black book, or 5ER, which isn't out yet.

[Cmonkey]

Re: Any Suggestions for a Hero Newbie?

 

One of the best things about using Hero over designing your own system is that most of the work is already done for you.

 

Sure, I could take the easy way out. The thing is that I know, from many sources, that Hero doesn't do realism well, but does cinematic well, while GURPS is the opposite - though with the new edition, it's gotten much better at it. Personally, I tend to like more realistic games, which is why I believe that Hero will ultimately not be for me.

 

My design, on the other hand, works well at both ends of the spectrum. IMO, based on my personal experience with GURPS, I feel my design handles the realistic side of things better than GURPS - again, my personal opinion. The realistic rules will allow you to game out a combat between a man and a mosquito...if you're insane enough to do so. And, yes, I did it to test the system. It took three tries (those little buggers are fast and tiny), but the man managed to hit the mosquito and it was very dead when he did. Very, very dead.

 

At the same time, if you want cinematic action hero kind of stuff, that's covered too - and covered well. I also ran a test combat between a giant (32' tall - IIRC) and a man (David vs. Goliath scenario). It took some time (game time), but the little guy was able to evade the giant long enough to slay him, and the one time he was hit, he was only slightly wounded. Granted, in this scenario the man was handled by an experienced player who knew how to make use of tactics, and went for the giant’s weak spot (Achilles Heel) immediately. Once the giant was prone, the man was able to run up and slice open the femoral artery (main one in the thigh). Even so, I feel that when I'm done, the design will handle the most cinematic of situations just as well as it does the most realistic of situations.

 

Hmmm....just talking about it is really making me want to go work on that now...

 

As far as buying stuff goes' date=' see if you can get your hands on Sidekick first. It's only $10 and has all of the necessary rules in it. The more detailed bits can be found in the big black book, or 5ER, which isn't out yet.[/quote']

 

I'm going to get 5ER (when it does come out), Fantasy Hero & Space Hero (the last two only if I really like Hero, most likely). I don't see a need to buy anything else, unless I really take to the system, which I don't think I will. It appears, to me at least, that the rest is just convenience - pre-packaged powers, spells, settings, etc., correct?

[MagicPegasus]

Re: Any Suggestions for a Hero Newbie?

 

If you're into customizing things you could use the hero game system to run the game in and use another system to add realilistic evnvironmental elements and a fleshed out background. The hero system is basically the best out there, but it lacks enough pre-made stuff for the GM and players. Often the GM has to make stuff from scratch, equipment, characters, locations, etc. You might use books from other games to flesh out your world. This may or may not help you specifically, but it is one approach to using the game.

 

Myself, I use this system for what it's best at -- the Champions superheroes game.

 

Hope this helps a bit.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Any Suggestions for a Hero Newbie?

 

Welcome, Cmonkey! I think you'll find a lot to interest you in HERO. And you'll find a lot of help from the people on these boards - we love to show off how much we know.

 

Since you're coming from a GURPS background, I think you'll benefit from the comparisons/tips on this discussion thread. (The comparisons start at post #8, but the preceding posts have tips on conversion between the systems which you may also find useful.)

 

Anything else you want to ask, feel free to come back.

[Cmonkey]

Re: Any Suggestions for a Hero Newbie?

 

If you're into customizing things you could use the hero game system to run the game in and use another system to add realilistic evnvironmental elements and a fleshed out background. The hero system is basically the best out there, but it lacks enough pre-made stuff for the GM and players. Often the GM has to make stuff from scratch, equipment, characters, locations, etc. You might use books from other games to flesh out your world. This may or may not help you specifically, but it is one approach to using the game.

 

Myself, I use this system for what it's best at -- the Champions superheroes game.

 

Hope this helps a bit.

 

I hope to do as you suggest in your first paragraph. That is, take Hero and basically "build" a customized set of powers/advantages, and present that to my players for use, rather than a massive 600 page toolkit. If they choose to go beyond what I present, that's fine, I'll pass them the book.

 

I tend to play fantasy and sci-fi games. I've only played superheroes once, and it was ok, though not really my cup of tea.

 

Welcome, Cmonkey! I think you'll find a lot to interest you in HERO. And you'll find a lot of help from the people on these boards - we love to show off how much we know.

 

Since you're coming from a GURPS background, I think you'll benefit from the comparisons/tips on this discussion thread. (The comparisons start at post #8, but the preceding posts have tips on conversion between the systems which you may also find useful.)

 

Anything else you want to ask, feel free to come back.

 

Thanks for the welcome, Lord Liaden, and for that link. It confirms everything I've learned thus far, but also gives some more specific insight into how Hero works, which I like. My big fear at this point is that Hero seems to emphasize 'coolness' over 'character', while GURPS is the opposite, and I prefer the latter emphasis.

[The Horror]

Re: Any Suggestions for a Hero Newbie?

 

I'm going to get 5ER (when it does come out)' date=' Fantasy Hero & Space Hero (the last two only if I really like Hero, most likely). I don't see a need to buy anything else, unless I really take to the system, which I don't think I will. It appears, to me at least, that the rest is just convenience - pre-packaged powers, spells, settings, etc., correct?[/quote']

 

 

Well, you certainly have done some reading into it already. I would also recommend Sidekick, but you shouldn't have any problems with just the 5ER book. Either way, you may still want to pick up a copy of Sidekick to pass around to your players before the first session. It will make things a lot easier during character creation if they know the system as well.

 

I would also recommend the Bestiary for a fantasy or sci-fi game. It's not really nescessary of course since it's just a massive amount of creatures made up using the core rules, but it does save a lot of time during play.

 

The Fantasy Hero and Star Hero books are fantastic. You will not regret buying them at all. Easily the best of the genre books I've seen so far.

 

 

 

The Horror

[Steve Long]

Re: Any Suggestions for a Hero Newbie?

 

Welcome to the boards, CMonkey! As you can see, we've got an enthusiastic bunch here, with lots of people willing to answer questions and offer advice.

 

My big fear at this point is that Hero seems to emphasize 'coolness' over 'character', while GURPS is the opposite, and I prefer the latter emphasis.

 

I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean by this, and thus how the two systems would differ in this respect. However, I will say this: I think the HERO System is actually better at defining "character" than any other system. The detail, flexibility, and options it provides let you define your character exactly how you want him, and in my experience that makes the character easier and more fun to play/develop. Of course, YMMV, but I don't think GURPS or any other system offers you nearly as many opportunities for creating and developing your character.

 

That is, take Hero and basically "build" a customized set of powers/advantages, and present that to my players for use, rather than a massive 600 page toolkit. If they choose to go beyond what I present, that's fine, I'll pass them the book.

 

As I think a couple of posters have mentioned, we sell various books that have already done this sort of work for you, if you're interested. They include:

 

The UNTIL Superpowers Database

The Fantasy Hero Grimoire (I and II)

The Spacer's Toolkit

The HERO System Vehicle Sourcebook

 

...and various parts of other books. However, creating your own custom set of abilities is definitely a good way to learn how to use the system, so I think that's a good idea on your part. If you come up with questions while you're doing that, feel free to post 'em here, or if you like e-mail me with them at SteveL@herogames.com.

[Cmonkey]

Re: Any Suggestions for a Hero Newbie?

 

Well, you certainly have done some reading into it already. I would also recommend Sidekick, but you shouldn't have any problems with just the 5ER book. Either way, you may still want to pick up a copy of Sidekick to pass around to your players before the first session. It will make things a lot easier during character creation if they know the system as well.

 

I would also recommend the Bestiary for a fantasy or sci-fi game. It's not really nescessary of course since it's just a massive amount of creatures made up using the core rules, but it does save a lot of time during play.

 

The Fantasy Hero and Star Hero books are fantastic. You will not regret buying them at all. Easily the best of the genre books I've seen so far.

 

I'll reconsider on sidekick, once I actually have the 5ER book in my hands. It's simply too hard for me to judge whether I actually need it or not, without having seen the book. The same goes for all the other 'convenience' books published for Hero.

 

I bought most of the 'convenience' books for GURPS, but most are still in like-new condition because I rarely used them. I ended up designing my own in the end. I actually have entire fantasy and space backgrounds (which includes equipment, aliens/races, bestiary, etc.) already made for GURPS, I'd just need to convert them to 'Fantasy Hero' and 'Star Hero'.

 

What can I say? I was born to be an RPG designer and writer.

 

Welcome to the boards, CMonkey! As you can see, we've got an enthusiastic bunch here, with lots of people willing to answer questions and offer advice.

 

I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean by this, and thus how the two systems would differ in this respect. However, I will say this: I think the HERO System is actually better at defining "character" than any other system. The detail, flexibility, and options it provides let you define your character exactly how you want him, and in my experience that makes the character easier and more fun to play/develop. Of course, YMMV, but I don't think GURPS or any other system offers you nearly as many opportunities for creating and developing your character.

 

As I think a couple of posters have mentioned, we sell various books that have already done this sort of work for you, if you're interested. They include:

 

The UNTIL Superpowers Database

The Fantasy Hero Grimoire (I and II)

The Spacer's Toolkit

The HERO System Vehicle Sourcebook

 

...and various parts of other books. However, creating your own custom set of abilities is definitely a good way to learn how to use the system, so I think that's a good idea on your part. If you come up with questions while you're doing that, feel free to post 'em here, or if you like e-mail me with them at SteveL@herogames.com.

 

Thanks for the welcome, the reply and the offer of assistance Steve!

 

As for the comment on 'coolness' vs. 'character', the way some have described Hero to me is that it builds a character much like D&D (sorry, no offense!), a set of combat stats & skills, with no personality (it's left to the player to provide - and as I've seen many times, is subject to change anytime a player finds it inconvenient), while GURPS builds personality into the character (which I prefer, because it allows me, as GM, to judge how well the character is being roleplayed), with use of quirks and, disadvantages. I understand Hero has some disadvantages, and I can easily tack 'quirks' into the system, but it's just the way I currently see the system based off of what I've read and been told thus far. My views may change once I've actually read the book.

 

Well of course you would believe that Hero was better at defining a character. Seriously though, from what I've seen thus far, I'd agree that Hero has many more options, except possibly in the area of personality (as I described in the previous paragraph - I'm not saying it doesn't, I just saying I don't know if it does). I would also like to say that I love the 'toolkit' nature of Hero's character creation system.

 

-Edit - Fixed spelling errors.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Any Suggestions for a Hero Newbie?

 

Hi again, Cmonkey. I couldn't help but notice your concerns about HERO's ability to define personality in the character build via disadvantages to the character. Let me assure you that with the exception of Quirks (which as you point out you can add yourself, and which many HERO GMs already use BTW), this system is as broad and flexible in that respect as GURPS, if not moreso.

 

You can see how the types of Disadvantages compare in the two games by looking at the links to conversion websites that are in the thread I linked to in my previous post.

 

To really appreciate the full potential of the HERO Disadvantage system, you must check out the fan-created Master Lists of Physical, Psychological and Social Limitations. If you can think of it there's a good chance it's already here.

[Cmonkey]

Re: Any Suggestions for a Hero Newbie?

 

Thank you very much Lord Liaden! That has put one of my last two concerns to bed. My other is the idea that some (though not all) believe that Hero doesn't handle realism as well as GURPS. Do you have a link to cure that?

 

Other than that concern, I've just got to play it for myself and see how it "feels", ya know.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Any Suggestions for a Hero Newbie?

 

Thank you very much Lord Liaden! That has put one of my last two concerns to bed. My other is the idea that some (though not all) believe that Hero doesn't handle realism as well as GURPS. Do you have a link to cure that?

 

Well, that depends. A lot of gamers equate "realism" with "lethality," the ability of opponents to bump each other off without major effort. I don't know if that's what you're interested in, but if so there are a lot of approaches offered in the rules that can make combat much deadlier: setting the starting points and capabilities of characters at a level that makes all standard weapons dangerous to them (the main rulebook lays out suggested guidelines for this); using a lot of Killing Attacks (damage from bullets or blades that's only stopped by specialized defenses like body armor) while limiting the amount of specialized defenses available to the characters; adding modular options like Hit Locations (spots on the body where an attack does greater damage), Bleeding (wounds untreated will continue to bleed until the character dies), or Imparing (such as making a limb that's been hit unusable).

 

For that kind of "realism" I'll suggest a link to, ironically, a guide to zombie survival horror gaming, Twilight of the Dead, based on George Romero's "Living Dead" movies. Although the threat is supernatural, it's important to the genre that the characters be relatively normal in their abilities so as to be genuinely frightened of the threat, and that combat be short and bloody. See the sections on "Rules" and "Pemutations" for suggestions on dealing with this. (If you like zombies the whole site is very well done BTW.)

 

Now having said all that, I will add that HERO probably doesn't allow for such extreme lethality as GURPS. Also on the specific area of Characteristics, the range that characters can have at lower point totals is not as wide as with GURPS, which has led to complaints of characters tending to look the same. IMO it's not that bad, but it is noticeable and might lead you to make some house-rule type adjustments for your own game.

 

Of course, if by "realism" you mean something different, you should probably specify that.

[Cmonkey]

Re: Any Suggestions for a Hero Newbie?

 

"the characters be relatively normal in their abilities so as to be genuinely frightened of the threat"

 

That sums up the type of "realism" I'm looking for. If I feel it's absolutely needed, I can always make some houserules to add more "gritty realism", though I'll most likely just get used to the rules as written. I've always been one of those types who prefer to use "official" rules rather than tack on some houserule.

 

So, at this point, I'm about 99% sure that Hero will suit me fairly well. I guess my own system design will have to wait another 10+ years to get completed. Now I'm just going to wait until 5ER hits the shelves.

[Legendsmiths]

Re: Any Suggestions for a Hero Newbie?

 

I'll offer up another POV on the whole realism/HERO thing. Realism is very subjective, and many will argue about what is actually realistic or not, and to what degree. HERO is very realistic in its mechanics, assessment of modifiers to skill/ability rolls, and in applying consistent logic to effect resolution. It tends to be less realistic really only on two points:

 

1. Physical Feats

2. Trauma

 

Both of those are easily resolved with house rules, and it sounds like many of your notes would be applicable. I would encourage you to start a simulationist/lethality thread if you are looking to bounce ideas around.

 

I jumped into GURPS in '86 w/ the arrival of Man-to-Man. I played GURPS nearly exclusively until '02 when I started to get back into HERO (having played champs in the early 80's quite a bit). I know many of the GURPS/HERO feel issues, and very much enjoy the gritty realism that GURPS offers. But, I think I really prefer cinematic realism over a true simulation. I want to track bullets, deal with environmental effects, etc., but I don't want my heroes killed by random gunfire. A deliberate shot from a key villain - sure, but random bullets from thugs? No. I had to introduce systems in to GURPS to make that happen, and HERO just does it as is, which is a relief.

 

As for character definition, I think HERO allows you to more easily define a character concept, with a more evenly balanced point scheme, than GURPS. GURPS is great for its many predefined powers, disads, and associated effects. If you only have a vague concept of what you want to build, you can sit down, look at a list of abilities/disads and walk away with a well defined character. HERO puts more of the onus on you the player to make those definitions, but supports whatever definitions you might want to make. HERO I think is also a little better at associating cost with game effect rather than reality (e.g. Unaging in GURPS is 15 pts or about 10% of a character's points - the same thing in HERO is 5 pts or about 3% of a character's points).

 

Especially if you have a mind to tweak the system to create a certain feeling, I think you will find HERO will more easily bend to your will than GURPS. Plus, there is a lot of great material out there that can really simplify running a campaign.

[lazarus]

Re: Any Suggestions for a Hero Newbie?

 

Sidekick is an intro to HERO 5 book. If you're not sure whether you'll like HERO or not, that's the book to get. I was amazed at how good the system is, and how clear the writing is.

 

Fantasy Hero is a really good book - a lot of the information (that I've read so far ... I'm only in the Combat chapter) is system independent. Plus, it's a _massive_ book.

 

The Bestiary I'm sure I'll find useful even if I never play HERO ... HERO seems to be the easiest to convert to other systems (well, it along with GURPS and BESM), so some of the ideas could be used. Plus, Jackalope.

 

I've seen it recommended (possibly by Lord Liaden) that characters should have 0-point Psych Lims just to define who they are. Psych/Phys/Social lims are, to me, the easiest and clearest ways of defining the character's personality. Of course, they're also one of the better ways of getting your disad points. As a general rule, anything about the character that's set in stone would be a Physical Limitation or a Strong or better Psych Lim. Anything that might change about the personality would be a lesser Psych Lim. A Phys Lim is used where a Mind Control would not be able to overcome that bit of personality.

 

Laz

[Cmonkey]

Re: Any Suggestions for a Hero Newbie?

 

I had heard some really good things about Fantasy Hero, and was even considering purchasing it before I decided to switch to Hero.

[lazarus]

Re: Any Suggestions for a Hero Newbie?

 

Like I said, FH is a _big_ book. But it's also an EXCELLENT read. (Good job, Steve, on that one).

 

Well worth the price I payed - and even more.

 

Laz

[Steve Long]

Re: Any Suggestions for a Hero Newbie?

 

Like I said, FH is a _big_ book. But it's also an EXCELLENT read. (Good job, Steve, on that one).

 

Thanx! It was a real labor of love to write, and I'm glad you're enjoying it.

 

Well worth the price I payed - and even more.

 

Donations of "more" gratefully accepted. :hex: