Passing Strike (martial maneuver) Unbalanced?

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Passing Strike (martial maneuver) Unbalanced?

 

Against low movement HTH opponents' date=' he never has to end an attack within a half move of that opponent.[/quote']

 

Or you could buy an Energy Blast...

 

Yeah, this thread is pretty much dead, I think. The sensible conclusion is that Passing Strike is no worse than anything else in the game. You pay the points, you do the damage. Potayto, potahto.

[Gary]

Re: Passing Strike (martial maneuver) Unbalanced?

 

Or you could buy an Energy Blast...

 

 

And then you miss the freebies with Str, you need to purchase PSLs vs range, and you don't get the damage and other bonuses from high movement. I'll raise you

 

Yeah, this thread is pretty much dead, I think. The sensible conclusion is that Passing Strike is no worse than anything else in the game. You pay the points, you do the damage. Potayto, potahto.

 

 

Yeah, you pay 5 pts to do +6-8d6 damage with OCV bonus and ability to attack at the end of a full move.

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Passing Strike (martial maneuver) Unbalanced?

 

And then you miss the freebies with Str...

 

Neither Passing Strike nor Energy Blast have any effect on nor relevance to "the freebies with Str". The substance of your argument just goes downhill from there.

 

You aren't thinking clearly, and it's not worth my time to correct you. Others have done so. I'm moving on.

[Guest C--]

Re: Passing Strike (martial maneuver) Unbalanced?

 

The brick is paying buttloads of points for AE Hex' date=' and the additional damage from movethrough is devalued by 50% since it must be prorated for the advantage. Now it's +1d6 for 4.5" movement, as opposed to +1d6 for 5" movement for Passing Strike. And a DCV penalty of -3 to boot. Not to mention that if he has serious amounts of movement, there's a reasonable chance that he could even miss the hex.[/quote']

 

The brick puts it into his "brick tricks" multipower. And whether you have to pro-rate the movement depends upon how much you listen to the FAQ.

 

 

The EBer is paying more points for those levels, and those levels don't add to damage. Apples and Oranges.

 

Yeah, and those levels are cheap, and the more you buy the better off you are. You can now attack from even greater distances.

 

Passing Strike is nice. Other things are just as nice.

[Mike W]

Re: Passing Strike (martial maneuver) Unbalanced?

 

He spent 65 points to do 11D6. Man' date=' what a jerk. He must have dominated your games.[/quote']

 

First, it's a street level game. So 11D6 IS a lot. The bricks are doing about 12D6.

 

Second, it is your kind of reasoning which is faulty because you aren't spending 65 points to get an 11D6 attack. You're spending 65 points to get an 11D6 attack, 20" of movement, a bunch of figured characteristics, plus 7D6 of damage that applies to a lot of other attacks, plus you get CV bonuses that outstrip similar costing maneuvers, plus you get the full move element which can make it very difficult for someone to get into hand to hand with you. There's a big difference between spending 65 point like this and buying a straight 13D6 energy blast(which is what spending 65 points just on an attack would really look like).

 

And for the record, none of the examples in laxrulz777's post was applying more than 10" of movement to the maneuver, which means that they fall withing the limits I set that people who would get more than 2 or 3 dice of extra damage shouldn't be allowed to buy it. As I stated before, if you have 10 inches or so of move(like all of laxrulz777's examples) then the maneuver can balance, but also like I said before, I think it breaks down once you start applying more than about 15" of velocity. Finally, the idea that because I wouldn't allow certain characters to buy passing strike equating to never allowing anyone to buy 30 STR is just AWFUL logic. They aren't even close to the same thing. 30 or more strength is apporpriate for SOME characters, but not all. Just like passing strike is appropriate for some characters, but not all. Character concept and play balance both influence who can buy superhuman strength and who can take passing strike. The limits that apply to one are not necessarily the same limits that apply to both. You would never buy Bruce Lee 30 STR, but probably would give him passing strike. Just like you wouldn't buy Bruce Banner(the Hulk) passing strike, but you'd buy him a lot more than 30 STR.

[Guest C--]

Re: Passing Strike (martial maneuver) Unbalanced?

 

First, it's a street level game. So 11D6 IS a lot. The bricks are doing about 12D6.

 

Second, it is your kind of reasoning which is faulty because you aren't spending 65 points to get an 11D6 attack. You're spending 65 points to get an 11D6 attack, 20" of movement, a bunch of figured characteristics, plus 7D6 of damage that applies to a lot of other attacks, plus you get CV bonuses that outstrip similar costing maneuvers, plus you get the full move element which can make it very difficult for someone to get into hand to hand with you. There's a big difference between spending 65 point like this and buying a straight 13D6 energy blast(which is what spending 65 points just on an attack would really look like).

 

He's spending 65 points and is getting an average powered attack and some movement. Figured characteristics, or 7D6 base damage for other attacks? So what? Strength is a good buy. That doesn't mean that Passing Strike is unbalanced.

 

And for the record, none of the examples in laxrulz777's post was applying more than 10" of movement to the maneuver, which means that they fall withing the limits I set that people who would get more than 2 or 3 dice of extra damage shouldn't be allowed to buy it. As I stated before, if you have 10 inches or so of move(like all of laxrulz777's examples) then the maneuver can balance, but also like I said before, I think it breaks down once you start applying more than about 15" of velocity. Finally, the idea that because I wouldn't allow certain characters to buy passing strike equating to never allowing anyone to buy 30 STR is just AWFUL logic. They aren't even close to the same thing. 30 or more strength is apporpriate for SOME characters, but not all. Just like passing strike is appropriate for some characters, but not all. Character concept and play balance both influence who can buy superhuman strength and who can take passing strike. The limits that apply to one are not necessarily the same limits that apply to both. You would never buy Bruce Lee 30 STR, but probably would give him passing strike. Just like you wouldn't buy Bruce Banner(the Hulk) passing strike, but you'd buy him a lot more than 30 STR.

 

I'd have no problem with the Hulk having Passing Strike. I'd probably make it Flying Tackle just for the sake of aesthetics.

 

Passing Strike is a good buy. It's pretty nice. But, as I said, it's not that much more effective than anything else. You can't use Passing Strike to any degree of effectiveness if you're adjacent to somebody. You're incredibly vulnerable to being hit by a Martial Throw. It's not that more efficient than the free move-by that's a basic part of the rules. Every character can do a move-by, and they don't have to spend a single point on it. Passing Strike's advantages are combat value advantages (but not as much as Martial Block, which gives you a bonus of 4 for 4 points, and it applies to missile deflection as well). It also allows you to use your full Str instead of half, and to not take the fractional damage like you would from a move-by (these two abilities seem to be an either/or--a brick performing a Passing Strike gets a benefit out of getting his full Str, because his Def is high enough to not worry about the damage, while a martial artist is more concerned with taking part of the move-by damage).

 

Martial art abilities are usually very, very good for their points cost. The balancing factor is that you've got to buy at least 10 points worth of abilities to get even a single maneuver. Since the bonuses don't stack, your Passing Strike, Martial Block, and Martial Strike aren't that much more efficient than +3 w/ strike, block, move-by, and +2D6 Hand Attack.

[Gary]

Re: Passing Strike (martial maneuver) Unbalanced?

 

Neither Passing Strike nor Energy Blast have any effect on nor relevance to "the freebies with Str". The substance of your argument just goes downhill from there.

 

You aren't thinking clearly, and it's not worth my time to correct you. Others have done so. I'm moving on.

 

 

Yes it does. Passing Strike builds on Str while EB doesn't.

 

Feel free to leave. I'm not going to stop you.

[Gary]

Re: Passing Strike (martial maneuver) Unbalanced?

 

The brick puts it into his "brick tricks" multipower. And whether you have to pro-rate the movement depends upon how much you listen to the FAQ.

 

If your GM allows you to place a Naked Advantage in a MP. Most GMs won't. And we're going by default rules. If you want to discuss your house rules, then we're not comparing the same thing.

 

 

 

Yeah, and those levels are cheap, and the more you buy the better off you are. You can now attack from even greater distances.

 

Passing Strike is nice. Other things are just as nice.

 

 

Those levels certainly aren't cheaper than what Passing Strike gives you. Most importantly they don't add to your damage or allow you to attack after a Full Move.

[Gary]

Re: Passing Strike (martial maneuver) Unbalanced?

 

Passing Strike is a good buy. It's pretty nice. But' date=' as I said, it's not that much more effective than anything else. You can't use Passing Strike to any degree of effectiveness if you're adjacent to somebody. You're incredibly vulnerable to being hit by a Martial Throw. It's not that more efficient than the [i']free[/i] move-by that's a basic part of the rules. Every character can do a move-by, and they don't have to spend a single point on it. Passing Strike's advantages are combat value advantages (but not as much as Martial Block, which gives you a bonus of 4 for 4 points, and it applies to missile deflection as well). It also allows you to use your full Str instead of half, and to not take the fractional damage like you would from a move-by (these two abilities seem to be an either/or--a brick performing a Passing Strike gets a benefit out of getting his full Str, because his Def is high enough to not worry about the damage, while a martial artist is more concerned with taking part of the move-by damage).

 

Martial art abilities are usually very, very good for their points cost. The balancing factor is that you've got to buy at least 10 points worth of abilities to get even a single maneuver. Since the bonuses don't stack, your Passing Strike, Martial Block, and Martial Strike aren't that much more efficient than +3 w/ strike, block, move-by, and +2D6 Hand Attack.

 

 

It's a lot more efficient if you have lots of movement. Take a brick with say 60 Str and 45" Leap. A moveby means he has -2 OCV, -2 DCV, and does 15d6 damage. Passing Strike means he has +1 OCV, and does 21d6 Damage.

[Guest C--]

Re: Passing Strike (martial maneuver) Unbalanced?

 

If your GM allows you to place a Naked Advantage in a MP. Most GMs won't. And we're going by default rules. If you want to discuss your house rules' date=' then we're not comparing the same thing.[/quote']

 

Most GMs will allow it. Some GMs won't. The prevailing thought in 5th Edition seems to allow it. But it doesn't matter, really. I'll buy it AE: Hex on a Hand Attack, which doesn't require pro-rating. Or I'll buy +10 OCV w/ movethrough (just 20 points). The FAQ suck. They're contradictory and they often don't make sense. It's really a "what did Steve blurt out at 3 AM" list more than anything. So yes, I view my house rules as superior. You don't have to play with my house rules if you don't want to, but you should not be surprised at all when other people play the same way.

 

Those levels certainly aren't cheaper than what Passing Strike gives you. Most importantly they don't add to your damage or allow you to attack after a Full Move.

 

Again, martial arts can give some awesome bonuses. One of the balancing points is that you have to buy 10 points worth of martial arts, and many of the maneuvers don't add a lot of versatility.

[Gary]

Re: Passing Strike (martial maneuver) Unbalanced?

 

Most GMs will allow it. Some GMs won't. The prevailing thought in 5th Edition seems to allow it. But it doesn't matter' date=' really. I'll buy it AE: Hex on a Hand Attack, which doesn't require pro-rating. Or I'll buy +10 OCV w/ movethrough (just 20 points). The FAQ suck. They're contradictory and they often don't make sense. It's really a "what did Steve blurt out at 3 AM" list more than anything. So yes, I view my house rules as superior. You don't have to play with my house rules if you don't want to, but you should not be surprised at all when other people play the same way.[/quote']

 

By doing it through a Hand Attack, you lose a lot of the freebies that Str provides. And 20 pts is a lot more than 5 pts, if your GM allows it at all.

 

 

Again, martial arts can give some awesome bonuses. One of the balancing points is that you have to buy 10 points worth of martial arts, and many of the maneuvers don't add a lot of versatility.

 

There are certainly enough maneuvers to add versatility to spend 10 pts efficiently. If you're allowing Fmove maneuvers, all you have to buy is Passing Strike and Flying Dodge for maximum efficiency.

[Guest C--]

Re: Passing Strike (martial maneuver) Unbalanced?

 

It's a lot more efficient if you have lots of movement. Take a brick with say 60 Str and 45" Leap. A moveby means he has -2 OCV' date=' -2 DCV, and does 15d6 damage. Passing Strike means he has +1 OCV, and does 21d6 Damage.[/quote']

 

So? Bricks rule. He's spent 50 points to raise his Str and 33 more for the leap, plus 10 points (at least) for martial arts. That's 93 points. Sure, he's got great range, but I can buy an 18D6 EB and one level in OCV for the same points (and I can spread that to hit higher DCV targets). I can buy a 90 Str brick and get a hell of a lot better figureds than the 60 Str guy, and buy +6 OCV w/ movethrough, and do 24D6 damage at +4 OCV (at less distance, but so what). Or I can buy him an Atomic Hammer, +6D6 Hand Attack (OAF), some martial arts, and spend +5 points to get him two hammers, or 5 points for extra limbs (four arms), +5 more points to get him 4 hammers, and abuse the funk out of the Multiple Power Attack.

[Gary]

Re: Passing Strike (martial maneuver) Unbalanced?

 

Put it this way. Would anyone allow Area Effect Hex or Armor Piercing as a flat 5 pt Adder on Str? And yet, Passing Strike gives you the same utility or even better (if you have lots of movement) for that same 5 pts.

[Gary]

Re: Passing Strike (martial maneuver) Unbalanced?

 

So? Bricks rule. He's spent 50 points to raise his Str and 33 more for the leap' date=' plus 10 points (at least) for martial arts. That's 93 points. Sure, he's got great range, but I can buy an 18D6 EB and one level in OCV for the same points (and I can spread that to hit higher DCV targets). I can buy a 90 Str brick and get a hell of a lot better figureds than the 60 Str guy, and buy +6 OCV w/ movethrough, and do 24D6 damage at +4 OCV (at less distance, but so what). Or I can buy him an Atomic Hammer, +6D6 Hand Attack (OAF), some martial arts, and spend +5 points to get him two hammers, or 5 points for extra limbs (four arms), +5 more points to get him 4 hammers, and abuse the funk out of the Multiple Power Attack.[/quote']

 

 

You're moving the goalposts. You're original point was that Passing Strike was only marginally better than Moveby. Now you're changing the subject.

[Guest C--]

Re: Passing Strike (martial maneuver) Unbalanced?

 

By doing it through a Hand Attack' date=' you lose a lot of the freebies that Str provides. And 20 pts is a lot more than 5 pts, if your GM allows it at all.[/quote']

 

You misunderstood on hand attack. I'm buying that in addition to my strength.

 

20 points is not that much more than the 10 points you're required to take through martial arts. And "if your GM allows that" applies to anything. Fox1 doesn't allow his players to buy 10" of Flight because "it's cheesy". GMs can say anything they want.

 

There are certainly enough maneuvers to add versatility to spend 10 pts efficiently. If you're allowing Fmove maneuvers, all you have to buy is Passing Strike and Flying Dodge for maximum efficiency.

 

That's why my speedster has those two maneuvers.

 

 

--

 

There are a lot of ways to get lots of damage and great combat values in Champions. Passing Strike can be one of them. It is not, however, any more abusive than a number of other tricks.

[Gary]

Re: Passing Strike (martial maneuver) Unbalanced?

 

You misunderstood on hand attack. I'm buying that in addition to my strength.

 

20 points is not that much more than the 10 points you're required to take through martial arts. And "if your GM allows that" applies to anything. Fox1 doesn't allow his players to buy 10" of Flight because "it's cheesy". GMs can say anything they want.

 

All of your suggestions have the same basic point. They are all a lot more expensive than 5 pts. You're HA multipower probably costs at least the equivalent of a +1/2 advantage on Str, and probably more depending on which advantages you place on HA and how many slots.

 

 

 

That's why my speedster has those two maneuvers.

 

 

--

 

There are a lot of ways to get lots of damage and great combat values in Champions. Passing Strike can be one of them. It is not, however, any more abusive than a number of other tricks.

 

 

Yeah, there are lots of ways of abusing Champions. Having a 5 pt maneuver that scales in effectiveness in direct proportion to your Str and movement is one of the cheapest.

[Guest C--]

Re: Passing Strike (martial maneuver) Unbalanced?

 

You're moving the goalposts. You're original point was that Passing Strike was only marginally better than Moveby. Now you're changing the subject.

 

I'm not moving the goalposts. Passing Strike is only marginally better than move-by, for 90% of characters. Certainly, there are characters who will benefit much more from Passing Strike. However, those characters would have to exist in a campaign that was relatively, shall we say, loose with damage restrictions. In a campaign such as that (where the GM is not interested in maintaning a specific dice cap), Passing Strike becomes more effective because bricks with lots of movement can now buy it. However, it is still not unbalancing, because there are now lots of different things a character can buy that will make him just as friggen' nasty.

[Guest C--]

Re: Passing Strike (martial maneuver) Unbalanced?

 

All of your suggestions have the same basic point. They are all a lot more expensive than 5 pts. You're HA multipower probably costs at least the equivalent of a +1/2 advantage on Str, and probably more depending on which advantages you place on HA and how many slots.

 

Yeah, there are lots of ways of abusing Champions. Having a 5 pt maneuver that scales in effectiveness in direct proportion to your Str and movement is one of the cheapest.

 

Passing Strike is 5 points. But for you to have the movement and the Str to take real advantage of the butt-whoop you can achieve with Passing Strike, you've got to spend more than that 5. Passing Strike for a martial artist in a 250 game is a 5 point investment, and he will sometimes use his 10" of Superleap to get a +2D6 "Flying Side Kick". Passing Strike for a brick in a 350 or 450 game is a larger investment, because he's buying up his Str and Superleap to much larger levels to get his "Flying Megaton Crush". At this point, he has not just tacked on 5 points to his character sheet. He's specifically built his character to take advantage of Passing Strike, which makes it the same as any other powerful construct.

[Gary]

Re: Passing Strike (martial maneuver) Unbalanced?

 

I'm not moving the goalposts. Passing Strike is only marginally better than move-by' date=' for 90% of characters. Certainly, there are characters who will benefit much more from Passing Strike. [i']However[/i], those characters would have to exist in a campaign that was relatively, shall we say, loose with damage restrictions. In a campaign such as that (where the GM is not interested in maintaning a specific dice cap), Passing Strike becomes more effective because bricks with lots of movement can now buy it. However, it is still not unbalancing, because there are now lots of different things a character can buy that will make him just as friggen' nasty.

 

 

As was originally stated numerous times, those 90% of characters aren't the ones that are being discussed.

 

The problem is that V/5 is priced at 1 pt and Fmove is priced at 3 pts when building martial maneuvers. Those are ridiculously cheap, and worse they are fixed cost for something that scales linearly with Str and Movement. And all maneuvers have a +0 OCV +0 DCV base, essentially based on Strike, even when the underlying maneuver is something that gives nasty penalties.

[Gary]

Re: Passing Strike (martial maneuver) Unbalanced?

 

Passing Strike is 5 points. But for you to have the movement and the Str to take real advantage of the butt-whoop you can achieve with Passing Strike' date=' you've got to spend more than that 5. Passing Strike for a martial artist in a 250 game is a 5 point investment, and he will sometimes use his 10" of Superleap to get a +2D6 "Flying Side Kick". Passing Strike for a brick in a 350 or 450 game is a larger investment, because he's buying up his Str and Superleap to much larger levels to get his "Flying Megaton Crush". At this point, he has not just tacked on 5 points to his character sheet. He's specifically built his character to take advantage of Passing Strike, which makes it the same as any other powerful construct.[/quote']

 

 

No, most bricks have enormous Str anyway, just as part of his schtick. And he gets a reasonable amount of free leap from that Str. The only thing the Brick reasonably needs to buy up is Leap, and that's something he would probably buy up anyway even without the availability of Passing Strike.

[Guest C--]

Re: Passing Strike (martial maneuver) Unbalanced?

 

No' date=' most bricks have enormous Str anyway, just as part of his schtick. And he gets a reasonable amount of free leap from that Str. The only thing the Brick reasonably needs to buy up is Leap, and that's something he would probably buy up anyway even without the availability of Passing Strike.[/quote']

 

The brick in your example bought 60 Str and 45" of Superleap, plus 10 points of Martial Arts. He performed a 21D6 attack at +1 OCV. I countered with a brick that had not purchased Passing Strike. He instead bought a 90 Str (getting 18" of movement for free) and +6 OCV w/ movethrough. He did 24D6 damage at either +3 or +4 OCV (depending on whether you round up or down for the -1 per 5" of movement). He's doing 3 extra D6 of damage at +2 or +3 extra OCV, with a DCV penalty and without the extra range, for one point less, all without using Passing Strike. A 60 Str brick with 36" of Superleap could also buy +7 OCV for movethrough and get a 24D6 attack at +0 OCV and -3 DCV at 9" less maximum range. Passing Strike does not appear to be superior to move-through, if the character is properly constructed to take advantage of the move-through maneuver. Passing Strike seems to be quite comparable to it, in fact (fewer dice with no DCV penalty, and a bit greater range of movement). I don't see the problem.

[Guest C--]

Re: Passing Strike (martial maneuver) Unbalanced?

 

As was originally stated numerous times' date=' those 90% of characters aren't the ones that are being discussed. [/quote']

 

Others seem to be concerned with them.

 

In my experience, there are 3 types of Passing Strike characters.

 

Type #1 is the martial artist with 10" or less of movement. To him, Passing Strike is a maneuver no different from Offensive Strike or Legsweep. He can't generate the speed he needs to test the limits of the maneuver. He's not a problem. Passing Strike works fine for him.

 

Type #2 is the guy who decides to trick out his character to perform Passing Strikes at every opportunity. Passing Strike is quite powerful in his hands, but there are a number of different ways he could have taken the basic concept and run with it. Passing Strike just happened to be the one he chose. It's no more unbalancing than any other powerful method of construction--it's got its own advantages and disadvantages. This character is not a problem.

 

Type #3 is the character who has already spent all the points he could ever want on his Str and movement, and only now has seen Passing Strike. This seems to happen the most in concept-based games. My Superboy character has an 85 Str and like 30 something inches of Flight. Passing Strike would be

a great maneuver for him to pick up, because he's already spent more points on movement than he's really benefitting from. This could make him a more effective combatant. I'm not worried about these characters because their very status in this category means they weren't built for point-efficiency to begin with.

 

The problem is that V/5 is priced at 1 pt and Fmove is priced at 3 pts when building martial maneuvers. Those are ridiculously cheap, and worse they are fixed cost for something that scales linearly with Str and Movement. And all maneuvers have a +0 OCV +0 DCV base, essentially based on Strike, even when the underlying maneuver is something that gives nasty penalties.

 

Martial maneuvers are extremely effective, and very cheap. Basic strike is +2D6 and +1 OCV, all for 3 points. That's a hell of a lot better than Hand Attack. Martial Block would cost 12 points to buy flat-out (+2 OCV w/ block or missile deflect, 3 point levels, +2 DCV w/ block or missile deflect, 3 point levels). It's only 4 points. Martial arts are dangerous, and they're powerful. Passing Strike is not unusually powerful for a martial attack.

[Mike W]

Re: Passing Strike (martial maneuver) Unbalanced?

 

The real problem is the v/5 element. The element costs only 1 pt, the same as a +1D6 element. Which is fine and reasonably balance if you are only getting 1 or 2 dice of damage from velocity. But if you can get 4D6 like the character in my campaign had, Passing Strike is equivalent to a 10 point maneuver. That is, to build the maneuver as +1 OCV, FMove, STR + 4D6 damage would cost 10 points and 10 point maneuvers are illegal by a lot. The UMA specifically states that no martial maneuver should cost more than 5 points. The limitations on the Full Move element do not do nearly enough to offset the benefits(this is why Full Move is a 3 point element). So according to the UMA's guidelines, the maneuver does break down at the higher levels and my experience backs this up. It's much more powerful than Offensive Strike which is a 5 point maneuver(max allowable cost for a martial maneuver) and which basically represents the martial arts equivalent of a haymaker. Unlike Passing Strike, Offensive Strike IS balanced.

 

And for the record, you have to have Defensive Throw to interrupt an attack like Passing Strike. Standard Throw maneuver wont' work.

[Mike W]

Re: Passing Strike (martial maneuver) Unbalanced?

 

He's spending 65 points and is getting an average powered attack and some movement. Figured characteristics, or 7D6 base damage for other attacks? So what? Strength is a good buy. That doesn't mean that Passing Strike is unbalanced.

QUOTE]

 

But the point was that you can't just say "he spent 65 points to get an average attack" like you had before, because he actually got a lot more than "just an average attack".

 

As for the Hulk getting Flying Tackle.

 

A) That's a different maneuver, which balances a little better because of the "You Fall" element, but I'm very leery of allowing any maneuver with a v/5 element where the character performing the maneuver is generating the velocity. Especially as a one point element. Make it a 3 point element and it might balance. But you get too much damage from a one point element to balance it against the times when it isn't useful.

 

So how about, making the v/5 element a +1 element when you have to use your opponent's velocity but a 3 point element when you are generating the velocity yourself? You could slap a -2 DCV penalty on the Passing Strike(which is essentially made for Flying Kicks anyway) and it would balance a lot more. People would be leery of using it all the time because of the DCV penalty, the maneuver would balance better because the defensive tradeoff would be more in line with the offensive power gained, and the DCV penalty even makes sense for the aesthetics of the maneuver.

[Guest C--]

Re: Passing Strike (martial maneuver) Unbalanced?

 

The real problem is the v/5 element. The element costs only 1 pt' date=' the same as a +1D6 element. Which is fine and reasonably balance if you are only getting 1 or 2 dice of damage from velocity. But if you can get 4D6 like the character in my campaign had, Passing Strike is equivalent to a 10 point maneuver. That is, to build the maneuver as +1 OCV, FMove, STR + 4D6 damage would cost 10 points and 10 point maneuvers are illegal by a lot. The UMA specifically states that no martial maneuver should cost more than 5 points. The limitations on the Full Move element do not do nearly enough to offset the benefits(this is why Full Move is a 3 point element). So according to the UMA's guidelines, the maneuver does break down at the higher levels and my experience backs this up. It's much more powerful than Offensive Strike which is a 5 point maneuver(max allowable cost for a martial maneuver) and which basically represents the martial arts equivalent of a haymaker. Unlike Passing Strike, Offensive Strike IS balanced. [/quote']

 

You take Passing Strike. I take Offensive Strike. We're locked in a broom closet. I win. And Passing Strike is getting more points dumped into it than an Offensive Strike. That's because you're using points for your increased movement capabilities. Offensive Strike can also be combined with legsweep, martial grab, nerve strike, killing strike, and choke hold into one super-nasty combat Multiple Power Attack. Passing Strike cannot, because the other maneuvers don't have the full move option.

 

And for the record, you have to have Defensive Throw to interrupt an attack like Passing Strike. Standard Throw maneuver wont' work.

 

Martial throw works.