How To: "Spirit Ward"

[Zeropoint]

I was considering converting a BESM d20 "magical girl" character to HERO, but rapidly ran into a snag: how do I represent the Spirit Ward ability? In the BESM game, it allows a character to:

 

1) prevent passage of supernatural beings through a door/window/portal or whatever, unless the being spends "energy points" (basically END) and makes a Will check. This is more of a mental effect than a physical barrier.

 

2) cause continuing damage to a supernatural being if the ward is attached to it

 

3) give a character under supernatural mind control the chance to break out.

 

Ability #2 is pretty straightforward, but #1 is giving me quite a bit of trouble. If I used Force Wall, I'd have to include a lot of strange advantages and limitations, and it still wouldn't really reflect the original power very well. On the other hand, I can't see an easy way to adapt Mind Control for this purpose. (Uncontrolled? Set Effect: Don't Come Through Here?)

 

#3 seemed like a Dispell Mind Control would work, but 5ER says that Dispell won't break someone out of mind control. Maybe some Mental Defense, UBO?

 

Anyway, if you've got any ideas, I'd appreciate hearing them.

 

Zeropoint

[SleepyDrug]

Re: How To: "Spirit Ward"

 

Why not use Hardened; only vs spirits. The rules already permit a wall to be hardened to prevent desolid from passing through.

[OddHat]

Re: How To: "Spirit Ward"

 

#1 can be handled with an Entangle, ADSO, May Not Be Escaped With Teleportation.

 

#3, IMO, works best as an Aid to Ego that allows a new breakout roll as soon as it is applied.

[Zeropoint]

Re: How To: "Spirit Ward"

 

Hey, an EGO entangle might be just the right base for the first power.

 

Zeropoint

[Aroooo]

Re: How To: "Spirit Ward"

 

Hey, an EGO entangle might be just the right base for the first power.

 

Zeropoint

 

That's how I would do it. Also, link an EGO attack to it for option 2.

 

Another thing you might check is the Shadowrun conversion that Damon_Dusk did. I have not read all the way through it, but what you are looking for is a lot like how Shadowrun handles wards and spirits.

 

Aroooo

[Zeropoint]

Re: How To: "Spirit Ward"

 

Here's a rough draft:

 

Sprit Ward I: No Oni Allowed!

 

4d6 Entangle (40 base points), Takes no damage from attacks (+1/2), Works against EGO, not STR (+1/4) (70 active points), Only to form barriers (-1), Can be dispelled (-1/4)

31 Real Points

 

OAF might also be appropriate, since the ward is "powered" by a paper charm which can be easily removed by anyone who can get to it.

 

Zeropoint

[Zeropoint]

Re: How To: "Spirit Ward"

 

That should have "Only vs Supernatural Beings" on it, too, now that I think about it.

 

How much would that be worth? -1?

 

Zeropoint.

[OddHat]

Re: How To: "Spirit Ward"

 

I'd do it this way:

 

Spirit Ward: Entangle 1d6, 1 DEF, Cannot Be Escaped With Teleportation (+1/4), Takes No Damage From Attacks Limited Group (Only Damaged by Magical and Psychic Attacks; +1/4), Affects Desolidified Any form of Desolidification (+1/2), Invisible to Sight Group (Visible to Mental and Mystic senses; +1/2), Based On EGO Combat Value (Standard Defenses apply; vs DCV, to allow use for creating barriers.; +1) (35 Active Points); Only To Form Barriers (-1), Limited Class Of Minds Only Versus Supernatural Creatures and Astral Bodies (-1/2), Cost: 16 points per die

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: How To: "Spirit Ward"

 

Force Wall doesn't need a lot of funky advantages and limitations to be effective as a spirit ward...it simply needs to be Hardened (to prevent Desolid spirits from passing through) and the custom limitation Only vs Demons and Spirits (-1?). Thats it, and you have a very functional spirit ward. Oh, and it must be Transparent to Physical and Energy attacks (i.e. a Mental Force Wall) so only mental attacks (and specific attacks with the appropriate spiritual SFX) can break them. Pretty simple.

 

To give individuals a chance to break out of Mind Control, simply write it up as Mind Control with a single command "Wake up!" which allows the character hit with the "ward" to gain another chance to break out of mind control. Use the rules for competing mental powers to resolve this issue.

 

Sounds like you are trying to write up the various affects of "Ofuda" seen in many anime which include characters with spiritual powers. Should definately be written up as a multipower with charges (the Ofuda themselves being the charges. Possibly recoverable, but most likely not...ofuda have a habit of bursting into flame and dissapearing when they are done)

[Zeropoint]

Re: How To: "Spirit Ward"

 

Yes, the "ofuda" are exactly what I'm going for.

 

The force wall approach sounds clean, except for one thing: if it's transparent to PD, wouldn't ANYTHING be able to walk right through it? A mental defense Force Wall would stop mental attacks, but nothing else, unless I'm misinterpreting things.

 

Oddhat, I don't quite understand some of the advantages you've placed on your version. For starters, Affects Desolid shouldn't be necessary: per 5ER p169, "A character cannot escape a Mental Paralysis with Desolidification." I would assume that this would also apply to Mental Barriers (Mental Blocks?).

 

Second, BOECV doesn't seem appropriate: the character will be physically placing the ofuda where the ward is desired, and the ward will only affect beings who attempt to walk through it; no to-hit roll of any kind is involved. As I see this, a being trying to pass through a warded door would walk up to the ward, and "push against" it with their will power (i.e. roll EGO damage). Once the entangle is broken, the paper charm bursts into flames and the barrier collapses permanently. I don't understand what DCV has to do with forming barriers.

 

Anyway, here's my next draft:

 

Spirit Ward I: No Oni Allowed!

 

Entangle 4d6, 4 DEF (40 base points)

Takes no damage from attacks (+1/2), works against EGO, not STR (+1/4), Cannot be escaped with Teleportation (+1/4) (80 active points)

Can only form barriers (-1), Can be dispelled (-1/4), Physical Manifestation (-1/4), Only affects supernatural beings and astral bodies (-1/2)

40 Real Points

 

Oddhat, I welcome your thoughts on why this is or is not an appropriate representation of the effect.

 

One potential problem is that the beings affected by the ward really shouldn't be able to just stand back and blast the ofuda, which they could by a strict interpretation of this writeup.

 

Zeropoint

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: How To: "Spirit Ward"

 

Yes' date=' the "ofuda" are exactly what I'm going for.[/quote']

 

Thought so.

 

The force wall approach sounds clean, except for one thing: if it's transparent to PD, wouldn't ANYTHING be able to walk right through it? A mental defense Force Wall would stop mental attacks, but nothing else, unless I'm misinterpreting things.

 

Well, this is mostly a SFX consideration. Since demons and spirits are composed mainly of spiritual energy, a Mental Force Wall should be able to stop them completely. It might also stop the local Shinto priest or anyone else with an unusually high amount of spiritual energy, but normal people and animals should be able to pass through without too much of a problem.

[OddHat]

Re: How To: "Spirit Ward"

 

Oddhat' date=' I don't quite understand some of the advantages you've placed on your version. For starters, Affects Desolid shouldn't be necessary: per 5ER p169, "A character cannot escape a Mental Paralysis with Desolidification." I would assume that this would also apply to Mental Barriers (Mental Blocks?).[/quote']

 

Legally, to be a true Mental Paralysis requires you to take Versus Ego not STR, which in turn requires you to take May Not Form Barriers.

 

Second, BOECV doesn't seem appropriate...I don't understand what DCV has to do with forming barriers.

 

BOECV vs DCV is there because it's the window you're tagetting, and that can't be targetted with ECV powers. You colud drop the BOECV entirely.

 

the character will be physically placing the ofuda where the ward is desired, and the ward will only affect beings who attempt to walk through it; no to-hit roll of any kind is involved. As I see this, a being trying to pass through a warded door would walk up to the ward, and "push against" it with their will power (i.e. roll EGO damage). Once the entangle is broken, the paper charm bursts into flames and the barrier collapses permanently.

 

If you want it exactly this way, it's probably best to use the "trigger" advantage. I'd purchase a true Mental Paralysis, Triggered by a supernatural creature trying to pass the barrier.

 

Anyway, here's my next draft:

 

Spirit Ward I: No Oni Allowed!

 

Entangle 4d6, 4 DEF (40 base points)

Takes no damage from attacks (+1/2), works against EGO, not STR (+1/4), Cannot be escaped with Teleportation (+1/4) (80 active points)

Can only form barriers (-1), Can be dispelled (-1/4), Physical Manifestation (-1/4), Only affects supernatural beings and astral bodies (-1/2)

40 Real Points

 

Oddhat, I welcome your thoughts on why this is or is not an appropriate representation of the effect.

 

One potential problem is that the beings affected by the ward really shouldn't be able to just stand back and blast the ofuda, which they could by a strict interpretation of this writeup.

 

Zeropoint

 

It's not rules legal. From the FAQ:

Q: Can a character take Based On EGO, Not STR for an Entangle without also taking BOECV?

 

 

 

A: No. (However, you might want to check out the HEROglyphs column in Digital Hero #5, which has a whole bunch of stuff about Entangles — including a whole section of optional rules to make them affect Characteristics other than STR, including EGO.)

[OddHat]

Re: How To: "Spirit Ward"

 

Maybe this would work?

 

Spirit Ward: Entangle 2d6, 4 DEF, Cannot Be Escaped With Teleportation (+1/4), Trigger (Triggered when Spirit or similar creature attempts to cross into protected area; +1/4), Takes No Damage From Attacks All Attacks (+1/2), Based On EGO Combat Value (Mental Defense applies; +1) (90 Active Points); Cannot Form Barriers (-1/4), Susceptible Uncommon (To physical removal or destruction of spirit paper; -1/4). Real Cost: 60 points

 

Gestures, incantations, extra time, and other limits could cut the cost quite a bit.

[MitchellS]

Re: How To: "Spirit Ward"

 

I would come at this from the other angle and just assume that spirits, like demons, have Disadvantages which would not allow them to pass without pain. So the ward just becomes Images and the spirits get Psychological Limitation: Fear to pass Spirit Wards (Common, Strong) [that will require a good ego roll just to attempt it] and then Susceptability: Spirit wards/bindings/protections 3d6 phase (uncommon).

 

As for breaking out of a mind control, +5 Ego Roll, UBO, and I would consider the granting of the ability as aid to a controlled person and would allow them the ego roll.

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: How To: "Spirit Ward"

 

So the ward just becomes Images and the spirits get Psychological Limitation: Fear to pass Spirit Wards (Common' date=' Strong) [that will require a good ego roll just to attempt it'] and then Susceptability: Spirit wards/bindings/protections 3d6 phase (uncommon).

 

I'm with you on all of this except the Images. If I understand the desired effect correctly, the Ward itself is invisible (to normal people, at least). The only visible part is the ofuda. For that, I would just require a skill roll, Create Ofuda, to draw one properly (much like Forgery, Weaponsmith, or any other craft type roll).

 

On the other hand, I have used Entangle (Area Effect, Affects Desolid, and Invisible), combined with an Images or Mind Link (Triggered when the ward is damaged), to create guards and wards. It's not quite the kind of ward that Zeropoint is looking for, though.

[MitchellS]

Re: How To: "Spirit Ward"

 

I'm with you on all of this except the Images. If I understand the desired effect correctly' date=' the Ward itself is invisible (to normal people, at least). The only visible part is the ofuda. For that, I would just require a skill roll, Create Ofuda, to draw one properly (much like Forgery, Weaponsmith, or any other craft type roll).[/quote']

Images does not need to be visible to the sight group. It could be visible to the mystic sense group or whatever is desired based on the special effects sort of like how homing beacons are made with Images to the radio group. The person creates the Spirit Ward with image and only the spirits can see it.

[Zeropoint]

Re: How To: "Spirit Ward"

 

This is a little frustrating, because my "EGO barrier" approach is a fairly clean build that would EXACTLY match the effects I have in mind . . . if it were possible for such a thing to exist under the rules.

 

I suppose I could use an auto-reset Triggered Mental Paralysis, with limitations to reflect the fact that it doesn't stop a supernatural being from turning around and walking away, and that it dissipates if anything successfully walks through it.

 

Zeropoint

[Blue Jogger]

Re: How To: "Spirit Ward"

 

All spirits cannot entered a warded room without effort. That seems like a 5 point Physical Limitation or perhaps built into the Physical Limitation: Spirit. Looking at the previous comments, MitchellS has already thought about this.

 

Ok, now, the ability to put up a ward, that probably a Change Environment

 

5 point Change Environment (Warded Doorway), 0 END, Persistant (10 Active Points)

OIF Ofuda (-1/2) 7 Real Points

[MitchellS]

Re: How To: "Spirit Ward"

 

All spirits cannot entered a warded room without effort. That seems like a 5 point Physical Limitation or perhaps built into the Physical Limitation: Spirit. Looking at the previous comments, MitchellS has already thought about this.

 

Ok, now, the ability to put up a ward, that probably a Change Environment

 

5 point Change Environment (Warded Doorway), 0 END, Persistant (10 Active Points)

OIF Ofuda (-1/2) 7 Real Points

Change environment can't have a positive effect [as in creating light], that's why I choose to use images for the ward power.

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: How To: "Spirit Ward"

 

This is a little frustrating' date=' because my "EGO barrier" approach is a fairly clean build that would EXACTLY match the effects I have in mind...[/quote']

 

I don't see a problem with that approach, myself. Your write-up was fine, other than lacking the "Based on ECV" Advantage.