Why the heck not?

[zornwil]

Re: Why the heck not?

 

Last I saw, this didn't seem to trigger too much dissension, but time has passed!

 

I weigh in on the side that this is a +0 Advantage. From a cost-benefit, it just doesn't seem to pass muster for a +1/4.

 

Here's something I didn't see, though I didn't read many of these posts in detail, so please do let me know...there's no actual gameplay experience reported that indicates this created an imbalance. Theory, yes, but not practice. In the meanwhile, I've heard many people report that in their games this has worked fine. I think there's a very large degree to which this has been playtested already, though I am of course speculating.

 

Above there's a statement in regard to "what if there are many '+1/8' (so to speak) Advantages", and just to chime in on that, I do think you have to look at all the Advantages and sometimes add some together and say "Well, really, taken together they are a +1/4 (or whatever) even if individually they are not." I think typically that's seen in Limitations because it's easy to lump some things together and just use the generic "Limited Power", I don't think (and am too lazy to look up, I shouldn't even be up, I got <2 hours sleep last night and just about to go under the 4 hour "limit" I desire if I go longer) that there's a similar generic "Advantaged Power" (somewhat oddly in retrospect)?

[JmOz]

Re: Why the heck not?

 

I have not read the whole thread, so if this has already come up I apoligise:

 

By a strickly legalistic (read Rules Lawyering) interpretation, all refrences 5th edition (someone please check 5er for me):

 

Pg 72: CATEGORIES OF POWERS: CHANGING CATAGORIES: 2nd Paragraph states a GM may change a powers catagory based on F/X

 

pg 246: Mental Combat: A character using a mental power uses EGO instead of DEX to determine when (t)he character acts in the phase.

 

If these are enforced (IE the character essentialy is using his EGO to determine when he uses his powers) I would be willing to consider "Uses EOCV not OCV as a +0 advantage (I call it this to indicate how I would like to see it on character sheets)

[Legendsmiths]

Re: Why the heck not?

 

Good finds. Thanks. Don't have my 5ER with me however.

[Phil]

Re: Why the heck not?

 

( Like Limitations' date=' an Advantage clearly worth less than +1/4 is free. I don't like this one, as I can see a whole pile of "+1/8" advantages being piled on a power "for free". [/quote']

 

Personally, I'm not sure. I feel uncomfortable with +0, purely because most characters choosing this option will gain a real benefit from it. I've never had any objection to fractional advantages between quarters, though, and for me personally this would be a viable solution. (e.g. in the same way, only at night is normally -3/4, only at day is -1/2, only when the moon is up might be -5/8)

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Why the heck not?

 

Personally' date=' I'm not sure. I feel uncomfortable with +0, purely because most characters choosing this option will gain a real benefit from it. I've never had any objection to fractional advantages between quarters, though, and for me personally this would be a viable solution. (e.g. in the same way, only at night is normally -3/4, only at day is -1/2, only when the moon is up might be -3/8)[/quote']

 

My only objection to +1/8 is where one stops. Do we recost al existing advantages and limits to the nearest 1% (so we get more debates on what it's worth - there's no shortage of them now!).

 

As I said, I don't like saying "anything less than +1/4 is free", but I could live with "there are also some drawbacks which also aren't enough for a limitation". JMOz' comments from the book make a lot of sense. I also agree that a few minor bonses or penalties could be combined into a single overall advantage/limitation.

[Agent X]

Re: Why the heck not?

 

I'm still trying to understand why anyone is thinking you are getting free combat value when it is based on a stat you had to buy up.

[zornwil]

Re: Why the heck not?

 

Personally' date=' I'm not sure. I feel uncomfortable with +0, purely because most characters choosing this option will gain a real benefit from it. I've never had any objection to fractional advantages between quarters, though, and for me personally this would be a viable solution. (e.g. in the same way, only at night is normally -3/4, only at day is -1/2, only when the moon is up might be -5/8)[/quote']

As to +1/8, I used to do that for various things (including No Stun Damage, which I used to apply a -1/8 Limitation for in my more violent earliest Champions campaign), but over the years I have come to Hugh's position.

 

Regarding the utility of this, I think it should be considered as stated elsewhere that an Egoist is going to up their EGO value, at least the large majority of the time, to what they need for other purposes and not to get an EOCV number, and given the costs of EGO and DEX for their purposes and derived values, I'd tend to think it doesn't represent the kind of advantage that is significant when compared to these factors.

 

Also, I'm interested that nobody has indicated that they tried this and it didn't work after I directly brought up the allegorical findings from the field to date, so I tend to feel that's good evidence this hasn't presented a problem where it's been employed so far.

[zornwil]

Re: Why the heck not?

 

I'm still trying to understand why anyone is thinking you are getting free combat value when it is based on a stat you had to buy up.

I think it's the idea that DEX=3 per 1 and EGO=2 per 1 so in theory you could buy up EGO more readily. However, I think this has been amply addressed (pro and con) in the thread and I don't see an issue, either. But I don't think it's a wholly noncredible notion - just wrong.

[JmOz]

Re: Why the heck not?

 

Some more random thoughts:

 

Dex gives you

 

1/3 OCV

1/3 DCV

1/10 Speed

1/1 Inititive

1/5 basis of alot of skills

 

EGO gives you

 

1/3 ECV

1 1/5 Mental Defence

1/2 Go first with mental powers

 

If we put points costs on this

Dex

we get

1 2/3 (Based on 5 point Skill levels)

1 2/3 (Based on 5 Points Skill Levels)

1

1/2 (Based on Lighning Reflex all actions)

1

----

6 5/6 per point of dex, so each character point it is worth 2.4167

Ego gets you

 

1 2/3

1 1/5

1/2

 

3 11/30 per point of ego or is worth 1.6833 per character point

 

Further more Dex based attacks are by far the most common, giving up the DCV bonus that comes with the increase in dex is going to hurt, and it will hurt alot