Politics in Champions....

[Lord Mhoram]

I'm finally getting ready to kick off my game. And there are certain things I wanted to be in place, especially politically, and was trying to work bits of the timeline and history to help that particular situation - so I am asking for input and ideas to make sure this works - I'm mostly looking for whether or not the events I have happening would, or rather could, lead to those results - making sure that the "alternate history" at least holds up suspension of disbelief.

Other note - I am politically conservative - so my world is going to be something I prefer - I'd really like to avoid any NGD style political flames here; Thanks.

 

Pertinent bits of the timeline - I use the IST (International Super Teams) from GURPS - a UN sanction series of teams throughout the world. Only I use the villian option. The IST was actually an attempt by parts of the UN (being manipulated and controlled by a group now known as the "shadow masters") to take over the world. The US was the first country to realize what was going on, and was the one to really start the fight against the IST. End result was a short worldwide supers war - with all of the fighting betwen IST and the rest of the worlds Supers.This happens in late 2000, early 2001.

The 9-11 attacks were brought about by the Shadow Masters as retaliation on the US for stopping the IST takeover (and the worlds equivenlent to Superman was killed stopping a Nuke on Washington).

 

Results of this change-

"war on terror" becomes a search for the Shadow Masters and thier lackeys. The two wars the US has been involved in the last 5 years are both more successful, and have more international support.

The US, having pretty much saved the world, iis in a similar international position than it was at the end of WWII - respected in power, feared in some place, some irritation that the US did what needed to be done when others couldn't, but in general a positive international mood towards the US.

 

Those within the UN that were in support of the IST were kicked out, or otherwise dealt with (the Secreatary General was one of those). The UN, especially the fact it is so secretive, is villified world wide and leads to a huge re-oginization to make the UN and informations and communications clearinghouse between nations. Current Secretary General Colin Powell (yes this did cause some rather vociferous opposition in other countries).

 

UNTIL having distanced themselves from the IST and fought against them during the crisis, is investigated and re-organized, but pretty much left standing.

 

So in general the world is more accepting of America and the UN has been pulled back to a place where representitives of nations can meet and hammer out problems - and there is a lot of humanitarian work going on, but not so much in the way of edicts and soldiering - although that does happen some.

 

Note that the PC team will be working with the UN rather than individual govenments (one of the reasons I work so much of that in to the history).

 

Full timeline in

this thread

[Hermit]

Re: Politics in Champions....

 

A few thoughts... not sure if they are what you are looking for...

 

 

Well, given how the United Nations ended up failing in such a cataclysmic way, I can see "Nationalist" Parties forming up, ones with the stance that each nation's soveriegnty should come first. Some would promote isolationism, but others might promote intervention for national interest as a must, and perhaps even just. These groups do not have to be evil or authoritarian, they just believe that yielding soveriegnty from an individual nation always leads to trouble (and given the history they have in that world, they have some reason to feel that way).

 

Super Soldier programs and the like are once more going full tilt. Superhumans are the new Arms Race.

 

Each nation takes action regarding existing super humans. Some will form registration programs of nigh draconian nature, others will instead praise their independent superhumans as the epitome of civic duty and the "good citizen"; Guys who did what they did of their own violation. A few countries will have genocidal purges against anything 'inhuman' driving surviving super humans in those lands in exile.

 

Some of the super tech that was being horded by the UN and Shadow Masters falls into public hands. Aided by new discoveries, there is a stronger push than ever to explore and perhaps even settle Mars.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Politics in Champions....

 

These groups do not have to be evil or authoritarian, they just believe that yielding soveriegnty from an individual nation always leads to trouble (and given the history they have in that world, they have some reason to feel that way).

Yeah that was one of things I was after a "return to nationalism" if you will, but not so far as complete isolationalism, at least not everywhere - some will.

 

Super Soldier programs and the like are once more going full tilt. Superhumans are the new Arms Race.

To an extent, I have another plot thread running through the campaign that hit some of the same ground.

Some of the super tech that was being horded by the UN and Shadow Masters falls into public hands. Aided by new discoveries, there is a stronger push than ever to explore and perhaps even settle Mars.

 

I like this. Hadn't even thought of that, and as I am a big propenent of space exploration, that fits my "dream world" bits I'm trying to throw in.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Politics in Champions....

 

Oh yeah, one other thing in general - I'm using the trope of the events of the world reflect that metal age of the comics... the whole IST and supers wars is the Iron Age* - that is over, the new game is starting and it is very much neo-silver.

 

 

* I had to have a bunch of dark intense superhero stuff to make it a true Iron Age kind of comic, and that whole bit worked so well - nasty supers, super vs super wars, lots of politics involved in the supers - very Iron Age.

[Jeghis]

Re: Politics in Champions....

 

Pertinent bits of the timeline - I use the IST (International Super Teams) from GURPS - a UN sanction series of teams throughout the world. Only I use the villain option. The IST was actually an attempt by parts of the UN (being manipulated and controlled by a group now known as the "shadow masters") to take over the world. The US was the first country to realize what was going on, and was the one to really start the fight against the IST. End result was a short worldwide supers war - with all of the fighting between IST and the rest of the worlds Supers. This happens in late 2000, early 2001.

The 9-11 attacks were brought about by the Shadow Masters as retaliation on the US for stopping the IST takeover (and the worlds equivalent to Superman was killed stopping a Nuke on Washington).

 

I’d say, fine to here. The UN is politically weak enough to succumb to a takeover, BUT you have to remember that a real takeover would be difficult without US support. Actually, any permanent member of the Security Council could politically block actions by the IST. The General Assembly really has little power. It can create and approve the budget, but cannot take action to force a member state to pay. I assume the shadow masters have the Money perk.

 

Results of this change- "war on terror" becomes a search for the Shadow Masters and their lackeys. The two wars the US has been involved in the last 5 years are both more successful, and have more international support.

The US, having pretty much saved the world, is in a similar international position than it was at the end of WWII - respected in power, feared in some place, some irritation that the US did what needed to be done when others couldn't, but in general a positive international mood towards the US.

 

Those within the UN that were in support of the IST were kicked out, or otherwise dealt with (the Secretary General was one of those). The UN, especially the fact it is so secretive, is vilified world wide and leads to a huge re-organization to make the UN and informations and communications clearinghouse between nations. Current Secretary General Colin Powell (yes this did cause some rather vociferous opposition in other countries).

 

I’m a little lost here. when you say "Those within the UN that were in support of the IST were kicked out, or otherwise dealt with (the Secretary General was one of those)." what exactly do you mean? were member states kicked out or just UN staff or were particular representatives of member states denied accreditation and asked to leave?

 

I won't begrudge you your simplification of WW2 history. yet.

 

 

UNTIL having distanced themselves from the IST and fought against them during the crisis, is investigated and re-organized, but pretty much left standing.

 

So in general the world is more accepting of America and the UN has been pulled back to a place where representatives of nations can meet and hammer out problems - and there is a lot of humanitarian work going on, but not so much in the way of edicts and soldiering - although that does happen some.

 

Note that the PC team will be working with the UN rather than individual governments (one of the reasons I work so much of that in to the history).

 

um.. that's where it is now. again, the General Assembly can vote on lots of things, including the budget. individual UN agencies have mandates to provide services. but the Security Council wields most of the 'power' of the UN, if you equate power with the ability to cause damage. only the SC can approve the use of military force. since five members (Britain, China, France, Russia, and USA) have veto power, they can and often do block actions. the US invasion of Iraq represents the latest example. they cannot prevent one member state attacking another, but they can withhold their blessing, for what it's worth.

 

Now, the point I'll politically call you on is where you say, "So in general the world is more accepting of America...." That's a fine generalization, but I can't think of a time in recorded history where it was true, not just for the US but for any political/military power. After WW2 many individuals liked the US for a variety of reasons. Most non-historians think of the WW2 period as one that started in 1939 with the invasion of poland and ended on the USS Missouri in 1945. Most of the world thinks it started in 1931 with the Japanese invasion of Manchuria. again, after the war, most of the world admired the ideals that the USA expressed, but were not impressed with governmental action. the chinese were never that impressed. the kuomintang didn't like us because we abandoned them and mao's faction didn't trust us. You have to remember that most of the world's people live in Asia, not Europe, but our worldview over here is reversed.

 

for example, when Gandhi was asked what he thought of western civilization, he said he thought it would be a good idea. the indians have had a long education in that subject.

 

i'd suggest thinking about how you would want to structure the friction. there are some natural blocs. china seems unlikely to fall into the western camp soon. russia has the same problem. india has a very vocal and independent foreign policy and has for years. during the pakistani crises of 2002 (?) the Indian gov't rebuffed american attempts to interfere reminding them that the US had just resorted to force to resolve it's problem with afghanistan. the EU may develop into a viable state in time, but in this timeline it's hard to say when. also European political structures are proportional representative not winner take all structures. it's unclear what will happen in south america, but a union of south america seems unlikely. africa is and will remain a problem for eurocentric america for a long time, but excepting south africa, democratic republic of congo and nigeria, most don't have the resources to do much.

 

also remember that right now more than 35% of the world's population live in china and india. that will likely grow. you might take that into account, as well as environmental damage from the war. the nuke over DC went somewhere.

 

how's that?

[Hermit]

Re: Politics in Champions....

 

Oh yeah, one other thing in general - I'm using the trope of the events of the world reflect that metal age of the comics... the whole IST and supers wars is the Iron Age* - that is over, the new game is starting and it is very much neo-silver.

 

 

* I had to have a bunch of dark intense superhero stuff to make it a true Iron Age kind of comic, and that whole bit worked so well - nasty supers, super vs super wars, lots of politics involved in the supers - very Iron Age.

 

 

Oh, Neo Silver eh? Mmm, well, no disrespect to Jeghis meant, but then maybe near global respect for the US isn't so far fetched after all... well, at least not any more than some of the other idealistic components found in our new and shiny neo silver age.

 

I was probably being too gritty myself for much of that...

 

Let's see, more politics, economics, and such...

 

How about this? with all the rebuilding projects and the aforementioned super tech to be studied, broken down, and remade- Suddenly the economy is booming. Demand for certain sciences and engineering areas of expertise is high, and some dandy scholarships are being offered by government and corporations alike to help fill the gap. Old factory towns are getting new jobs. Where once they made cars, now some make hovercraft....or at least new cars with more efficient motor vehicles.

 

In one small nation of the world, a group of American and Allied super heroes defeated "Tyrant Z" (because X is overdone) and much to the super hero team's surprise, they've been put in charge of a Marshall plan of sorts there. They're being watched VERY carefully but thus far, it seems to be going well.

[zornwil]

Re: Politics in Champions....

 

LM, I don't have ideas to add, but I want to chime in that I think your scenario is realistic enough and stands up to reasonable suspension of disbelief.

[lemming]

Re: Politics in Champions....

 

Looks cool. Especially since I happen to use the IST in my world as well.

[SKJAM!]

Re: Politics in Champions....

 

Hmm...I would guess that the Shadow Masters had direct control over the Security Council (mind control, perhaps) to ensure that its agenda went forward as planned.

 

"Gee, I would have thought the US Ambassador would have vetoed that resolution, but he didn't. Interesting."

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Politics in Champions....

 

Hmm...I would guess that the Shadow Masters had direct control over the Security Council (mind control, perhaps) to ensure that its agenda went forward as planned.

 

"Gee, I would have thought the US Ambassador would have vetoed that resolution, but he didn't. Interesting."

 

 

What it was sneaky. The IST were to all public appearence a UN sponsered series of international superteams, connected through the UN and sharing information; all of the official UN stuff dealing with them was in those directions. They got placed in a number of very important locales, and then the Shadow Masters gave the Word, their lackies in the UN jumped and all out super assualt over the Globe. The US, through the US superteams figured it out just before too late, and started acting. Much of this happened during Clinton's presidency and he was a meta with abilites of persuasion and mind control (espeically in masses), and worked for the Shadow Masters, which is why much of the US didn't react.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Politics in Champions....

 

The UN is politically weak enough to succumb to a takeover, BUT you have to remember that a real takeover would be difficult without US support. Actually, any permanent member of the Security Council could politically block actions by the IST.

I think I covered this in the above post, but basically the IST takeover wasn't actually UN sponsered, just had a number of high ranking UN officials involved. The rest of the IST was normal stuff.

 

were member states kicked out or just UN staff or were particular representatives of member states denied accreditation and asked to leave?

The individual members were kicked out, generally by thier own country.

 

 

Now, the point I'll politically call you on is where you say,

 

how's that?

That helps. I'm a fair novice at history, and I figured a lot of what you were saying, I was mostly thinking Western Civ. And this is a Neosilver comic feel, so a bit of the friction will be downplayed, but it will be there for color.

 

Thanks much.

[Jeghis]

Re: Politics in Champions....

 

i was reminded of this by recent events. don't discount the ability of 'normal' non-governmental agencies to help out where needed.

 

the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies announced that they will no longer solicit money for relief to the south asian tsunami survivors. they have already raised US$1.2 billion, which is enough to fund these programs for the next decade, and decided that it would be wrong to use the images of suffering to raise more, when there are others who also need aid.

 

just goes to show you that you don't need spandex and a mask to be a superhero.

[Ghost who Walks]

Re: Politics in Champions....

 

I would do a few moralistic scenarios myself, dealing with the consequences of the IST being gone.

 

1) The IST could have been spending a lot of resources developing the "third world". Those resources are now gone. Having the supers deliver food to starving people can be fun.

 

2) Nationalistic rivalries and tribal wars would break out again, once stopped by the IST.

 

3) The IST may have had control through supers, but they could have used other methods. Blackmail of politicians is the easiest. Some of this evidence could still be around, causing problems. This gets around the problem of controlling the Security Council.

 

4) If you have any aliens, that the IST made contact with, they could invade to reestablish the "legitimate government". The friendly one they had contact with, of course.

 

5) You need to have a couple of teams that were the darling heroes of the IST, and now are underground and hunted. Eurostar works good for this.

 

As a side note, I run a similar campaign where I got rid of the UN so I could introduce the beginnings of a world government. Its a fun topic.

 

I had Clinton be a demonic shapeshifter from another dimension who replaced the real Clinton back when he was governor. The players never suspected, until the moment after a NPC hero assassinated him. After that, they helped the Secrecy Service cover up the evidence...

[David Blue]

Re: Politics in Champions....

 

Lord Mhoram: "Oh yeah, one other thing in general - I'm using the trope of the events of the world reflect that metal age of the comics... the whole IST and supers wars is the Iron Age* - that is over, the new game is starting and it is very much neo-silver."

 

Then I suggest you play up adulation of, gratitude to and almost a martyr cult of the world's equivalent to Superman, who died stopping the nuke. Make him as near as you can to a paragon of Silver Age virtues. Have the public convinced that that's the kind of hero they want. If a hero acts like [fill in his name], they'll get great reactions. If a hero plays cool killer Iron Age games, people won't be intimidated or impressed as much as they will be disappointed that "you're sure not like [fill in his name]." There should be a whopping big steel statue of him, somewhere convenient for the players to come and see it (or talk to it, the way people might talk to the statue of Abraham Lincoln). Filling those giant boots, and eventually earning respect (and self-respect) purely in your own right should be campaign growth issues.

 

Of course, I'm thinking of Wally West taking up the banner of Barry Allen.

 

It should be obvious to the players that despite the super-soldier programs and so on, they personally won't be interfered with or spied on by their government - as long as they act the way [fill in his name] did, and are therefore, politically "sacred cows".

 

Trying to convert from Iron Age to Neo-Silver is tough. I've seen it tried, and it failed. So I think in providing encouragement and support for players to take the right path and stick to it, your first thought should be to "use enough gun," not to be as unobtrusive as possible.

 

Lord Mhoram: "Much of this happened during Clinton's presidency and he was a meta with abilites of persuasion and mind control (espeically in masses), and worked for the Shadow Masters, which is why much of the US didn't react."

 

So, if William Jefferson Clinton was the agent, who ran this agent? And will that feared master-spy, The Beret, be seen again? (Think clean thoughts, chum!) If so, should she be in fishnet stockings and with a swing-line, like The Black Widow? Or should she lurk more, like The Spirit's arch-enemy The Octopus, identified only by his gloves? ("In the dark, I couldn't see who it was, there was just this sexy female voice giving orders on behalf of the Shadow Masters, and once I caught a glimpse of - a beret!")

 

Your history looks fine, close enough for comics, no problem.