Advice on map detail

[Captain Obvious]

Okay, so I'm drawing a city map for the world I've been working on. The way I see it, there are two extremes for drawing an urban map: the extreme detail, where every shanty, outhouse, and pigsty is precisely located and described, and the extreme overview, where the map is basically a city-shaped grouping of districts, with no more detail than "here is where the nobles live" and "this is the bad part of town".

 

I don't really want to put in the work for the former (at least right up front...if it happens as a natural development of running the campaign, so be it), but I want to convey more information than the latter, and I'm not sure where I should draw the line. I was hoping to get some advice on what works for other people, and maybe the perfect solution would pop out at me.

[Fitz]

Re: Advice on map detail

 

My usual practise these days is to draw a very general map showing only the various quarters (if applicable) and the location of any essential locations, such as important temples and the like. Only if it's actually needed for play will I render anything in more detail than that, and most of the time it's not.

 

One thing I've found quite useful is to keep a bunch of city geomorphs* handy for mapping out things like chases and what-not when there's no time to draw an exact layout. If need be, later on you can re-render the geomorphs and individualise the area for later play.

 

*Geomorphs: tiles which match along the edges so that they can be randomly selected and laid out to form a seamless map. I prefer hexes, but squares are easier to create and probably do just as good a job, though of course the total number of possible combinations is smaller for squares than for hexes.

[Frenchman]

Re: Advice on map detail

 

What I usually do is draw in the city streets after I label the districts. Not every single alley and side street, but all the major ones at least, and usually the minor ones as well. This gives me a bunch of 'city blocks' which I then divide up and describe as the need arises. Since they're just blobs of empty space, I can draw in buildings, alleys, pigsties, outhouses, or whatever I feel like.

 

Thus, every time the characters visit a new building, alley, or other geographical feature of the city, I draw it into the map and label it. It ends up being a lot of work the first few game sessions in that city, but as the character develop their own 'territory' that they spend most of their time in, the mapping takes up less and less time.

but the thing with the geomorphs sounds like a great way to create a city map from scratch, especially if it is one the characters aren't going to spend a lot of time in.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Advice on map detail

 

Thanks for the advice so far, guys. I'm pretty much up to the point described by Frenchman...labeled districts and major streets. I'm still fiddling around, though, trying to decide where the perfect level of detail falls. It doesn't help that I'm doing it in AutoRealm, which I'm only passingly familiar with. Maybe I'll post it in a couple days for more specific critiques.

 

EDIT: Or maybe I'll post it right now. I'm definitely thinking I want more detail than this. I'll probably pretty it up some more later too. The streets look like crap.

[Curufea]

Re: Advice on map detail

 

You can get the Lankhmar city geomorphs here-

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8306/lankhmargeomorphs.html

[Steve Long]

Re: Advice on map detail

 

Speaking as someone who's done a lot of detailed maps for various things (campaigns I've run, published books, etc.), I think the advice given above -- start with the most important landmarks -- is a good one.

 

Mapping every building is too much work to start out with -- you'll burn out on the project and never finish it. Start with the districts/neighborhoods, all the major roads, and any landmarks or buildings so significant that you think of them right away when you ask yourself "What would players really want to know the location of?". In my experience, that list usually includes important guildhalls, important temples (including the temples of any gods the PCs themselves worship), key marketplaces/bazaars/commercial districts, major governmental centers (e.g., the King's Palace), the homes of the "movers and shakers" in the city, and perhaps most importantly a selection of interesting inns and taverns.

 

That's a great starting point. As your interest in the setting, and need to know more about it, grows, you can fill in the "blank spots." Gradually you'll develop a really detailed map. Eventually, you get so wrapped up in it that you hire Keith Curtis to do a commissioned, professional version of your map.

 

Looks like you're off to a good start already with the map you posted! Now back to my own current mapping project: a 40-story skyscraper. I'm almost done with Floor 01.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Advice on map detail

 

I think my major issue here is that once I start placing important buildings, they just look like they're hanging...all alone out there...it kind of looks less like a city than just the district map.

 

At any rate, I'll keep these tips in mind. I'll be working on this one for a while, off and on, and I'll post major revisions for more advice later.

 

It's weird, but although I've usually been the GM for the 20 years I've been gaming, I've never been able to do a city to my liking. I usually gloss over the unimportant cities with a district map, if that, and I swipe the important ones from published scenarios and game supplements.

 

Which reminds me. Thanks Curufea for the Lankhmar geomorphs. I have the original TSR Lankhmar supplement, but electronic format geomorphs will most likely help immensely in electronic mapping. I'd rep you, but I guess I've done it too recently.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Advice on map detail

 

SWEET!!!!!

The Lankhmar geomorphs were always one of my favorite game aids, and a wonderful way to fill in a city.

Now I don't have to go on a weekend long raid of my storage unit 3 hours away to go fetch mine.

BTW, I have the same problems with drawing "orphan" buildings on an otherwise blank map. usually I'll just pencil in numbers on one copy while the master waits for artistic inspiration and subsequent embellishment. Of course... zI'm weird when it comes to maps...I like digging out the vellum and calligraphy set for making the players copy, often with cryptic notes in the matgins... sometimes in magical codes or runic notation...

for fellow clue droppers who like making hard to decipher maps.... find a runeset you like (there are some GREAT fonts to do this in a word processor), write your clue, run it through babelfish to translate it to something similar to the orgin of the runes (Icelandic, for instance works fine for norse runes ), then copy the translation and convert it to the rune font. Makes it look great, and if someone is ambitious enough to translate it, it'll still be gibberish to most players... if the Character can read it tho, then hand over the translation. Sometimes its fun to let the players figure it out if they can... most hard core gaming groups will have at least one player who can puzzle out basic futhark runes, and there are just enough similarities to english that the translation can give some tantalizing hints.. "Wait...that last word kinda sounded like dragon when you read it!".

If you think thats too easy, then go for it with Ogham and Gaelic, and be VERY impressed if a player manages to translate it (Its probably even character appropriate... the only folk I've EVER known who might be able to pull this off tend to play rather druidic/bardic/ranger/sidhe types anyway)

[Talon]

Re: Advice on map detail

 

One thing I always do for my fantasy cities is a list of taverns. For each tavern, include:

 

-- Name of tavern

-- Name of owner with personality "tags" (happy dwarf; crazed veteran; etc. -- enough to improv a character)

-- Location of tavern (what quarter of the city)

-- Type of patron (merchants; nobles; art patrons; etc.)

 

I try to do at least 12 for a reasonably sized city. When the PCs arrive and look for a place to stay, you get to seem super-prepared when you can fire off several names without batting an eye.

 

The other thing I focus on is a conceptual layout of the city: how did it grow, how do the different parts relate to each other, etc.

 

For example: the PCs in my game recently came to the city of Swayvin, which is built on and between three low hills (NW, NE, and S). The NW hill holds the royal castle, and is thus home to most of the royalty and nobility of the city. The NE hill is the site of a monastery, and so most of the city's major temples are located there. The S hill holds the main gate (for campaign reasons there are few gates), so traders, merchants, and "foreigners" congregate down there. The middle of the city is actually farmland (again, campaign reasons here), and there is a substantial contingent of "city farmers" who keep to themselves and tend to resent the city's more urban inhabitants. The fields provide a natural hideout for illicit activity...but don't let the farmers catch you!

[Curufea]

Re: Advice on map detail

 

There are plenty of online maps of cities in various detail levels, and time periods that are good reference - or even cut & paste material. I think I posted the link to the victorian map of london up in my fantasy web resources thread.

Also bear in mind that cities in fantasy games are generally (in my opinion) anachronistic. You still have a basic aggrerian society from the twelth-14th century - but cities generally are fashioned on the 16th century or later.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Advice on map detail

 

I don't foresee that being an issue, since my agrarian society is 16th century or later. (Note the Fort in my map...definitely not a concentric castle.)

 

Or at least as much of an issue...I suppose I am drawing on 150-200 years worth of history in a lot of my world ideas....

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Advice on map detail

 

Yeah, my campaign world is solidly 16th century tech by now as well, with local variations in magic and the supernatural accounting for a bit of retarded development. I wen't 16 century for fairly obvious reasons... I know the millitary tech of the period inside and out from 15 years of research for Faire. That and I like having cannon on ships, and the occasional firearm, petards and the like. I use conventions within the setting similar to those used in L. Modesitt Jr.'s Recluse series or the Black Sun trilogy by C.S. Friedman. Both authors address the existance of gunpowder and technology within a fantasy setting and how to limit them. Great books... my ideas for my magic system were initally prompted by these. Besides... I dig the 16th century. Neat Martial Arts, groovy armor and fairly advanced tactics. My campaign gets a bit odd tho, because its very much a "what kind of society would evolve from a mix of early celts and early norsemen in a high magic environment with elves around" brought all the way to 16th century tech. No steampunk tho. Not for me. Not yet anyway. I'd need to read some good fiction on the subject before my mind could really embrace the idea.