Takes Time

[yamamura]

I am thinking someone suggested something like this though I can't seem to find it. So I will ask it probably again;) Has anyone ever thought of taking a limitation on their power that they must wait a certain length of time before using it again? For istance someone who can fire a blast but must wait 5 minutes before he can fire it again. I was thinking a +1/4 for every step down the time scale? Good idea or bad idea?

 

G

[MikeyMitchell]

Re: Takes Time

I am thinking someone suggested something like this though I can't seem to find it. So I will ask it probably again;) Has anyone ever thought of taking a limitation on their power that they must wait a certain length of time before using it again? For istance someone who can fire a blast but must wait 5 minutes before he can fire it again. I was thinking a +1/4 for every step down the time scale? Good idea or bad idea?G

Yeah, the normal Extra Time Limitation doesn't work, because you want the power to be available without a long startup.My first instinct would be to say to build this as an END Reserve. The power feeds off the reserve, which has just enough END in it to fire once, then a relatively slow recovery time. Someone else probably has a good idea.

[Agent X]

Re: Takes Time

Yeah' date=' the normal Extra Time Limitation doesn't work, because you want the power to be available without a long startup.My first instinct would be to say to build this as an END Reserve. The power feeds off the reserve, which has just enough END in it to fire once, then a relatively slow recovery time. Someone else probably has a good idea.

[/quote'] Of course that means you're paying extra for what is effectively a limitation.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Takes Time

 

Effectively, the END battery approach puts "0 END" on the power, which is why it's more expensive. Allow the power a -1/2 limitation for "Uses personal and Battery END" and the overall cost should be lower.

 

However, I still agree that some variance on "extra time" is most appropriate. Extra Time only to activate is 1/2 the usual limitation. I'd suggest that "Fires once then needs extra time for each subsequent shot" is at least as limiting, probably more so. What about allowing the regular limitation less 1/2?

 

A power that would recharge after a full phase isn't really limited as you need to wait until next phase to use it anyway. A power that can only be used after a minute has passed would be -1, and one that can only be used every other phase would be -1/4 ("extra phase").

[yamamura]

Re: Takes Time

 

Effectively, the END battery approach puts "0 END" on the power, which is why it's more expensive. Allow the power a -1/2 limitation for "Uses personal and Battery END" and the overall cost should be lower.

 

However, I still agree that some variance on "extra time" is most appropriate. Extra Time only to activate is 1/2 the usual limitation. I'd suggest that "Fires once then needs extra time for each subsequent shot" is at least as limiting, probably more so. What about allowing the regular limitation less 1/2?

 

A power that would recharge after a full phase isn't really limited as you need to wait until next phase to use it anyway. A power that can only be used after a minute has passed would be -1, and one that can only be used every other phase would be -1/4 ("extra phase").

 

I was thinking of it starting at 1 minute sorry forgot to mention that.

 

G

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Takes Time

 

I was thinking of it starting at 1 minute sorry forgot to mention that.

 

I think I'd just start with -1/4 for "extra phase" (effectively allowing use every other phase), and move up from there. After all, "Every 5 minutes" might as well be "only once per combat".

[Sean Waters]

Re: Takes Time

 

Effectively, the END battery approach puts "0 END" on the power, which is why it's more expensive. Allow the power a -1/2 limitation for "Uses personal and Battery END" and the overall cost should be lower.

 

However, I still agree that some variance on "extra time" is most appropriate. Extra Time only to activate is 1/2 the usual limitation. I'd suggest that "Fires once then needs extra time for each subsequent shot" is at least as limiting, probably more so. What about allowing the regular limitation less 1/2?

 

A power that would recharge after a full phase isn't really limited as you need to wait until next phase to use it anyway. A power that can only be used after a minute has passed would be -1, and one that can only be used every other phase would be -1/4 ("extra phase").

 

First let me say that this is a very sensible and proper approach and the one that I think I would adopt.

 

Having said that...and just for your idle consideration...

 

A limitation that makes a power half as effective is worth a -1 limitation (FRED 194). Arguably an instant power you can only use every other phase should therefore be worth -1 as you can only use it half of the time you'd want to, especially if, for example, it is your only major attack power. Of course this means that the whole 'extra time' limitation is wrong even without modification. Don't think there is anything to be done about it but maybe someone will come up with a better way for 6th Ed...

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Takes Time

 

A limitation that makes a power half as effective is worth a -1 limitation (FRED 194). Arguably an instant power you can only use every other phase should therefore be worth -1 as you can only use it half of the time you'd want to' date=' especially if, for example, it is your only major attack power. Of course this means that the whole 'extra time' limitation is wrong even without modification. Don't think there is anything to be done about it but maybe someone will come up with a better way for 6th Ed...[/quote']

 

I considered that as well, but in my view, most characters have other attacks to fall back on, and certainly a character who takes a limitation like this will have other attacks to fall back on. That, in itself, isn't reason to conclude the limitation on this specific power is any less limiting, although it does imply that the character won't have the power unavailable half the time he wants to use it..

 

Imagine, however, a Multipower of 5 attacks (to pick a figure out of the air), all of 60 AP. Normally, the MP would cost 90 points for 5 u slots. Add a -1 limitation, and it costs 45, for the inconvenience of being required to switch attacks every phase. Generally, I switch attacks fairly regularly when running a character with a versatile attack suite, so this lack of choice isn't very "limiting" to me. Meanwhile, the guy who only has one attack, and no choice to change from phase to phase, pays the full 60 points because he has no backup attack.

[Constantine]

Re: Takes Time

 

Imagine' date=' however, a Multipower of 5 attacks (to pick a figure out of the air), all of 60 AP. Normally, the MP would cost 120 points for 5 u slots. Add a -1 limitation, and it costs 60, for the inconvenience of being required to switch attacks every phase. Generally, I switch attacks fairly regularly when running a character with a versatile attack suite, so this lack of choice isn't very "limiting" to me.[/quote']

 

Not to nitpick, but wouldn't ultra slots for this multipower cost 6 points apiece, so 5 slots would be 30 points, 90 points total?? Or did I miss something...

[Constantine]

Re: Takes Time

 

Hoody hoo! I'm a standard normal now, no longer incompetent!!! Go me!

 

Sometimes I get over excited...

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Takes Time

 

Not to nitpick' date=' but wouldn't ultra slots for this multipower cost 6 points apiece, so 5 slots would be 30 points, 90 points total?? Or did I miss something...[/quote']

 

I missed something - sleep! I'll amend my post. Thanks

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Takes Time

 

I am thinking someone suggested something like this though I can't seem to find it. So I will ask it probably again;) Has anyone ever thought of taking a limitation on their power that they must wait a certain length of time before using it again? For istance someone who can fire a blast but must wait 5 minutes before he can fire it again. I was thinking a +1/4 for every step down the time scale? Good idea or bad idea?

I'd probably just buy this as 1 Charge, Recoverable. The defined way of recovering the Charge is, "Wait Five Minutes."

[Sean Waters]

Re: Takes Time

 

Hoody hoo! I'm a standard normal now, no longer incompetent!!! Go me!

 

Sometimes I get over excited...

 

 

I'm heading towards my millenial event, and I'm still incompetent, still it doesn't matter when you have people around to tidy up after you. A case in point - I missed this one completely...

 

I'd probably just buy this as 1 Charge' date=' Recoverable. The defined way of recovering the Charge is, "Wait Five Minutes." [/quote']

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Takes Time

 

I'd probably just buy this as 1 Charge' date=' Recoverable. The defined way of recovering the Charge is, "Wait Five Minutes." [/quote']

 

Probably perfect for a five minute delay - not recovered in combat, but recovered by the time we of the next combat. I like it!

 

[but it doesn't handle other periods of delay...I wonder how "1 charge recoverable" stacks up to the "Extended Time" approach - no book here, unfortunately. I always figure if you get the same/similar costs with two different approaches, you've got a fair pricing model.

[yamamura]

Re: Takes Time

 

I am leaning toward Hugh's rendition.

 

G

[Silbeg]

Re: Takes Time

 

Solid construct, and reasonably well defined. And I also thought that recoverable charges are typically not recoverable in combat (don't have FRED in front of me, nor do I own 5ER yet... but... )

 

You then just define that if one minute passes (even in combat) - or 5 minutes, or whatever, the charge recovers. CHances are, even at 1 min, you'll never see it go off in twice in a single combat.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Takes Time

 

Extra Time - 5 minutes is -2. Take away -1/2 and we get a -1 1/2 limitation. 1 recoverable charge is -1 1/4.

 

We're pretty close here, Derek!

 

I don't think I'd stick with Extra Time at very high time increments, however - 24 hours is -4, which would become -3 1/2. Now, if we made the rule "1/2 of the Extra Time limitation", we would get -1 for needing 5 minutes to recover (just a little less limited than 1 recoverable charge - and it likely is, if you were denied time to recover the charge over a 5 minute period in some cases, that's not abusive - eg. you've been defeated and placed in a deathtrap in the interim).

 

24 hours would then be -2, which is exactly the same as 1 charge per day - which is the net effect.

 

OK, I'm fine-tuning my proposal to use 1/2 of the limitation for Extra Time of the same length.