"So, Thor hits Superman with Mjolnir..."

[OddHat]

Re: "So, Thor hits Superman with Mjolnir..."

 

'Cause a) he's not worthy' date=' and he's not worthy. Plus, Thor can energize it when he throws it, surrounding it with mystical 'hurt you" power, and Supes doesn't want to grab that.[/quote']

 

Hogwash. A lifetime of fighting evil and deep personal integrity (except for the whole Secret ID thing) more than qualify him, save according to warped fan-boy logic.

[Guest Champsguy]

Re: "So, Thor hits Superman with Mjolnir..."

 

Hogwash. A lifetime of fighting evil and deep personal integrity (except for the whole Secret ID thing) more than qualify him' date=' save according to warped fan-boy logic. [/quote']

 

Oh yeah, he's so worthy.

[OddHat]

Re: "So, Thor hits Superman with Mjolnir..."

 

Oh yeah' date=' he's so worthy.[/quote']

 

If we're going for the Silver Age Supes, Thor has no chance whatsoever. Supes shoves Earth into the Sun with Thor on it, using Super Speed to completely construct a new Earth and move everyone on to it before anyone notices. Also, do covers depicting events that didn't take place count?

[Mentor]

Re: "So, Thor hits Superman with Mjolnir..."

 

Personally, I've never considered Thor's "bash with hammer" to be a magical attack. Now, the hammer is quite capable of throwing out magic attacks, but in the comics I've read Thor rarely seems to use those abilities, prefering the more "direct" approach of simply using the mallet for a few extra dice of HA.

 

That said however, depending on my mood, I might consider the extra HA dice (not the full STR + HA attack) to be magical if I thought it was important to the game.

Agreed. The magic of Mjolner is the ability to do tremendous damage in the hands of a sufficiently powerful wielder, not to manifest some sort of "mystical energy field". Being hit by Thor with an increase in HtoH damage because of the Uru hammer ought to be sufficient for even Superman to notice.

 

Like John Desmarais, I wouldn't object to only the additional damage from the weapon being somehow more effective, but I don't consider it necessary.

[Andrew Cermak]

Re: "So, Thor hits Superman with Mjolnir..."

 

I even recall Thor explaining to the Peter David hulk that it took a "true and noble spirit" to be able to lift it.

 

Now... is anyone really going to argue that Superman lacks a "true and noble heart"?

 

From a Thor/Viking perspective? Yeah, I will.

 

The Vikings had a special hell for men who died of sickness or old age. If you didn't die in battle you were a coward and not a true man.

 

A warrior spirit is an integral part of any Norse concept of nobility, and Supes doesn't have it. Superman is a hero; he isn't a warrior, and he ultimately doesn't measure up to a Norse god concept of worth.

[GTAgamemaster]

Re: "So, Thor hits Superman with Mjolnir..."

 

Hey again,

 

As to Superman holding onto and lifting Mjolnir... of course Superman is worthy!! But that would be a way for Thor to know that he should not be fighting Superman

 

BIG THOUGHT BUBBLE "By Odin's eye this Man of Steel doth heft the sacred hammer Mjolnir... Mayhaps I misjudged him..."

 

So Thor offers the olive branch and of course the big blue boy scout accepts... Thats how it would most likely go down with I am sure many different variations.

 

Gaining the power of Thor is a nice plot device and is dependent on the motives of the one wielding the hammer. My question would be had Thor had to share the power of the Hammer.... If Cap picks up the Hammer does he get the power of Thor?... what happens to the Thor that he was standing side by side with...?

 

To continue this discussion and take it in a new direction... under what circumstance do these Two titans of their Universes clash?

 

Is Superman hoodwinked and altered by red kryptonite and set upon Thor by Loki or Dr. Doom?

 

Is Thor brought through over by Darkseid with a motherbox and "convinced" of the threat that Superman poses. (Not sure how this would come about.... I threw my lot in with Marvel years ago so for those true blue DC fans please expound upon the notion with heart felt devotion.)

 

Under what plaussible circumstances do these two come together? At that point you can begin the debate again as to who would win and why? ie (maybe in the marvel universe the sun's radiation does not have quite the empowering effect on Superman....kind of homefield advantage for Thor.)

 

Its been a great thread and I just want to hear more thoughts on the subject as the focus and reasoning are expounded upon.

[lemming]

Re: "So, Thor hits Superman with Mjolnir..."

 

Since I'm not as familiar with the New Gods, I was wondering how Superman does with them. At least there we have a bit more history to go with and I figure they're closer to what Thor is like. (Not quite, but they're both Kirby at their beginning)

[OddHat]

Re: "So, Thor hits Superman with Mjolnir..."

 

From a Thor/Viking perspective? Yeah, I will.

 

The Vikings had a special hell for men who died of sickness or old age. If you didn't die in battle you were a coward and not a true man.

 

A warrior spirit is an integral part of any Norse concept of nobility, and Supes doesn't have it. Superman is a hero; he isn't a warrior, and he ultimately doesn't measure up to a Norse god concept of worth.

 

By what strange standard are you judging "Warrior Spirit"? Fighting Evil is what every version of Supes has done for almost seventy years now. Supes won't kill, but then the comics code Thor rarely left human corpses behind him.

[Southern Cross]

Re: "So, Thor hits Superman with Mjolnir..."

 

Actually,I think this is why Superman couldn't pick up Mjolnir at the end of JLA/Avengers #4.He won't kill.Thor,however,will kill if absolutely necessary.

(I remember how he killed that super-strong Marauder during the Mutant Massacre).

As both Jormungand & Thor are supposed to kill each other in a fair fight during Ragnarok,Odin would not consider anyone incapable of killing worthy of lifting Mjolnir.

This does NOT mean that the current Baron Zemo could lift Mjolnir!!!!!!!

My best guess is that a worthy person would only kill to protect others.

Thus I'd say that Wonder Woman could lift Mjolnir.

As could Saotome Ranma.

[Guest Champsguy]

Re: "So, Thor hits Superman with Mjolnir..."

 

Since I'm not as familiar with the New Gods' date=' I was wondering how Superman does with them. At least there we have a bit more history to go with and I figure they're closer to what Thor is like. (Not quite, but they're both Kirby at their beginning)[/quote']

 

The New Gods suck.

[Guest Champsguy]

Re: "So, Thor hits Superman with Mjolnir..."

 

Agreed. The magic of Mjolner is the ability to do tremendous damage in the hands of a sufficiently powerful wielder' date=' not to manifest some sort of "mystical energy field". [/quote']

 

Umm... yes it can. Thor can summon glowing mystic power around Mjolnir. He does it all the friggin time.

[David Blue]

Re: "So, Thor hits Superman with Mjolnir..."

 

GTAgamemaster: " If Cap picks up the Hammer does he get the power of Thor?... what happens to the Thor that he was standing side by side with...?"

 

Yes, that has happened. Thor was already down in some way, there was a battle to be won, and so Captain America used the hammer.

 

In Marvel, this stunt costs you a thousand Karma - basically good-guy points mostly earned in play - so only a great and extremely experienced hero can do it, and nobody wants to do it twice. That simulation looks to me to be about right.

 

lemming: "Since I'm not as familiar with the New Gods, I was wondering how Superman does with them."

 

The nearest brick match is Orion. In the context of the JLA, he was nothing remarkable. He can lift tanks and pound through walls, but lots of other people could do that too, he could not do anything better than other bricks, and they were more remarkable than him in other ways. Orion's status as the Achilles of the New Gods storyline, which he needs to thrive as a character (the way I think Captain Marvel needs to be "Earth's Mightiest Mortal" if he is ever to thrive) just wasn't available. Orion fell flat, he didn't work.

 

By most standards the senior members of the JLA are extremely overpowered, so that the characters around them become under-powered by comparison and consequently uninteresting. I don't mean that as a criticism of Orion or Thor. I like these characters a lot. I prefer Jack Kirby's scale of power, which is lower than the top-end DC scale.

 

But if you ask me how I simulate Thor hitting Superman with Mjoller - bounce. OK, let (only) the extra damage from the hammer through as magical if you like. That's still not a fight. That's not Thor's fault, that's just how it is.

 

Southern Cross: "Thor ... will kill if absolutely necessary. (I remember how he killed that super-strong Marauder during the Mutant Massacre). ... My best guess is that a worthy person would only kill to protect others."

 

My guess is the same. And Superman also will kill - only if it is absolutely necessary, to protect others. Superman killed the villains General Zod, Faora, and Quex-Ul, because they had wiped out a whole planet, they were bent on further slaughter, and neither they nor Superman (nor I, a reader) had any doubt that they were going to escape any restraint Superman could put on them, other than death, and if he didn't kill them they were going to inflict global genocide on more planets. So Superman did the right, the only thing. That increased his moral standing in my eyes.

[Andrew Cermak]

Re: "So, Thor hits Superman with Mjolnir..."

 

By what strange standard are you judging "Warrior Spirit"? Fighting Evil is what every version of Supes has done for almost seventy years now. Supes won't kill' date=' but then the comics code Thor rarely left human corpses behind him.[/quote']

 

Does Superman enjoy fighting?

[lemming]

Re: "So, Thor hits Superman with Mjolnir..."

 

The New Gods suck.

Well, Ok. Let's not try that tact.

 

Though David's answer was more informative.

[CBikle]

Re: "So, Thor hits Superman with Mjolnir..."

 

Does Superman enjoy fighting?

 

The original (1938) version did. Used stromgarm tactics and really had no patience for fools.

 

Of course the original Supes also slapped around women and was originally against the U.S. entering WWII.

[Guest Champsguy]

Re: "So, Thor hits Superman with Mjolnir..."

 

See, the thing is guys... the fought. It's in continuity (for DC, at least). It was JLA/Avengers, and it came out in '03 and '04. Superman beat Thor, but the thunder god thought he could take Supes in a rematch. And since Kurt Busiek is writing JLA right now, he made sure to mention that the JLA/Avengers crossover is in continuity. So, fanboy talking aside, Superman can lift the hammer... if the need is great enough and Thor wants him to. But he can't just pick it up and swing it around.

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: "So, Thor hits Superman with Mjolnir..."

 

Well' date=' those are pretty good tactics. Go with what works.[/quote']

 

 

Thus putting to end all those "Thor would beat Superman because of his battle prowess" statements from the Rabid Thorites.

[Superskrull]

Re: "So, Thor hits Superman with Mjolnir..."

 

Well, despite the fact that the storyline itself blew ropy goat chunks, I will point out for the whole Viking/Aesir style 'die in battle' thing, Superman did fight Doomsday and staggered back a few paces after killing him only to flop over rather dead himself. The fact that he 'got better' is no worse than the fact that Balder once came back from the dead.

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: "So, Thor hits Superman with Mjolnir..."

 

'Cause a) he's not worthy' date=' and he's not worthy.[/quote']

 

 

What planet are you living on? Because on this one, Superman is one of the brightest examples of honor and integrity in any comic book universe! By Marvel's own rules, set when Marvel started publishing Thor, Superman is more worthy to wield the hammer than Thor is himself.

 

 

 

Plus, Thor can energize it when he throws it, surrounding it with mystical 'hurt you" power, and Supes doesn't want to grab that.

 

 

Funny how I've never actually seen that in any issue of Thor I've ever read, and I've been a constant reader since 1974. If he has ever done that, I'm putting it in the "convenience power not to be taken as canon" category, sort of like Superman's ability to walk through walls or talk in a vacuum.

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: "So, Thor hits Superman with Mjolnir..."

 

Also' date=' do covers depicting events that didn't take place count? [/quote']

 

 

No.

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: "So, Thor hits Superman with Mjolnir..."

 

A warrior spirit is an integral part of any Norse concept of nobility' date=' and Supes doesn't have it. Superman is a hero; he isn't a warrior, and he ultimately doesn't measure up to a Norse god concept of worth.[/quote']

 

 

Sorry, but while that's all well and good if we were talking about the Thor from ancient Norse mythology, its hogwash when you consider that we're not talking about the mythological Thor, but rather Marvel Comics bastardized version of Thor.

 

And according to Marvel, "warriorhood" isn't a requirement. Just nobility.

[Guest Champsguy]

Re: "So, Thor hits Superman with Mjolnir..."

 

No.

 

Don't be silly. Of course covers count.

[Guest Champsguy]

Re: "So, Thor hits Superman with Mjolnir..."

 

Sorry, but while that's all well and good if we were talking about the Thor from ancient Norse mythology, its hogwash when you consider that we're not talking about the mythological Thor, but rather Marvel Comics bastardized version of Thor.

 

And according to Marvel, "warriorhood" isn't a requirement. Just nobility.

 

No, it's "worthy", not nobility. You can repeat it a million times, and it doesn't change anything. It'll just let me raise my post count in responding.

[keithcurtis]

Re: "So, Thor hits Superman with Mjolnir..."

 

I like hamburgers.

 

Keith "." Curtis

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: "So, Thor hits Superman with Mjolnir..."

 

I like hamburgers.

The Creeper once called Superman "hamburger" -- when he was getting really strange, under the hands of Keith Giffen. (He was doing it just to try and irritate the Man of Steel.)