Gurps Deadland Hero : Husckster

[Glabutz]

Back again with WH, in a special background.

 

I'm talking here about Gurps Deadland, since I find this "game" much more interresting than the Deadlands core rulebook (much more things in the second one) and easier to convert (what the hell can d8 represents in game temrs ? )

 

So, I think tat most of the game is easily convertible, but Deadlands magic is quite original.

 

In Gurps deadlands, the Huckster (occidental mage) use a pocker card game to determine the effect of the spell : he first make his spell roll, and then take 5 cards for his first Magery level + one card /magery level above one + one card/5 ponts of success of the roll.

 

The figures he gets gives the effect of that spell (let's say, for exemple, that a pair gives 1DC ND, 2DC for 2 pairs and so on...)

 

I'd like to keep this part which bring some fun in the games but wonder how to convert it to hero.

 

So far I think :

 

1. Buying the "power" gives you 5 cards to draw.

 

Then it may be :

 

2. a) You may draw one more card for that power if you spent the points for it (5 points/card, or +1/4 ?)

3. a) If you make a Ego contest, you should get one more card for each 5 points you overthrow your opponent Ego.

 

Or :

 

2. rather than buy 1D of effect, you gain 1 card.

3. you gain 1 card for each 5 points you succeed your ECV test.

 

Wat do you Think of it ?

Did someone work on that ?

 

Thanks

[Al_Beddow]

That sounds interesting. Definately a different type of magic. That would even work well in a fantasy campaign (heck, it's already been done a little in the Chronicles of Amber).

[Captain Obvious]

The Player's Handbook for Classic Deadlands (the kind that Glabutz didn't want to try to convert) can be had for free, FREE I tell you, on RPGNow.com. Or check peginc.com, the site for the company that makes Deadlands. They'll link you to RPGNow perhaps with less searching.

 

Pretty interesting magic systems overall. Based on one day's perusal of the book, I'd say that Hucksters tend to buy their powers in such a way that they get more effect the more they make their roll by, rather than the standard all-or-nothing RSR effect. You'd have to figure out the basic chances of drawing each poker hand to determine the limitations on the spells....

[Herolover]

Done that, been there.

 

First, understand something. I am a HERO fanboy. I LOVE HERO. I try to convert everything to hero. I HAVE converted everything to HERO. Shadowrun (I did it.) Spelljammer (I did it.) So many games I don't even want to think about it.

 

However, Deadlands is one game I won't convert. The original system is just too good and lends to much a feel to the game. I reccomend everyone play it.

 

That said, I did have a player that wanted to play a "Huckster" in a Champions campaign I was running.

First the player bought a "Power" Skill roll based on ego. This was his "Hexing ability."

 

Secondly the all powers had Requires Hex roll, side effects, and gestures (cards appear when the huckster cast his "spell" (called hex in Deadlands.)

 

All hexes were placed into a multipower. When the player wanted to cast a hex he decided how many points he put into the power and made his roll.

 

This isn't exactly per the Deadlands game, but then again I don't think there is anyway to correctly convert this over into the HERO system.

[Glabutz]

This isn't exactly per the Deadlands game, but then again I don't think there is anyway to correctly convert this over into the HERO system.

 

So do I, but not for the same reasons.

 

I really don't like that system.

 

First of all, if I've been playing GURPS, Fuzion, Action! and now Hero, it is mostly because I dislike playing with tons of dice, especialy with the 20 sided ones.

 

Moreover, the system seems to much unfair : on a D4, tour chances to get a "hit", a critical success is 25%. I'm not sure that 2D6 is better than 2D4.

 

So, after reading that empty book that is Deadlands - Weird West, bought for a few cents on e-bay, I went to GURPS Deadlands, which seems to me far more interesting. More things to read on the universe, more understandable rules... Good shot, even if I don't want to use Gurps.

 

Hero gives me the feeling to be much more close to the spirit of that kind of universe than the two other systems.

 

But then, I have to work on the hexes (spells), so they could still get that kind of feeling... I think that the way Gurps developped it is a really good thing. I'd like to introduce it in my HS game.

 

So, rather than having D6 to throw, I'd rather have some kind of poker figures. I have to get the right number(in Gurps, the maximum might be 10 cards). The first 5 cards should be quite cheap, and the further ones should cost a lot...

[Captain Obvious]

You can keep the card aspect of Deadlands and still use it in Hero. Drawing a poker hand is just a randomizer like rolling dice or using a computer to generate a random number. The thing is to apply an appropriate limitation to the "activation roll" ie the poker hand needed to cast the hex. Seeing how a royal flush is far less than a 25% chance, you'd have to modify the existing Activation Roll table to do it properly.

 

A quick search on Google reveals that with 5 cards, a pair is about 11-, three of a kind is about 4-, and a straight is about 3-. Obviously, the table will have to be extended downwards quite a ways....

[Glabutz]

The thing is to apply an appropriate limitation to the "activation roll" ie the poker hand needed to cast the hex. Seeing how a royal flush is far less than a 25% chance, you'd have to modify the existing Activation Roll table to do it properly.

 

I was more thinking about using it to determine the effect of the Hexe (spell).

 

That's Gurp's choice. I find it interresting.

 

So, if you need an Ego contest to make that power work, you'll still have to. But instead of rolling XD6, you pick X cards and see waht your hand is worth, with 5 of them...

 

The effect should depends on that. For exemple, on a attack power, a pair would be woth 1 NDC, 2 for 2 pairs...

[Captain Obvious]

I'm not sure we're communicating properly here. I don't have a whole lot of time right now, but later this evening, I'll write up a Hero conversion of a huckster's hex (as I see it) and post it here to see what you think....

[Captain Obvious]

Okay, here's my interpretation of Soul Blast, as converted from Classic Deadlands. Just a rough conversion, based on probabilities of drawing a particular hand or higher on five cards, and with a lot of eyeballing to convert damage to Hero standards and to extend the activation roll table (essentially drawing a certain hand or higher is equivalent to an activation roll, as I see it). I'm thinking I would boost some of these limitations if I did it again, seeing how you could play almost forever and never see a royal flush. I also didn't figure the effects of the Deadman's Hand. If 25 damage classes isn't enough to kill a particular creature, I figure you can either handwave it, or give an obscene amount of damage and an obscene amount of limitation on it. Without further ado:

 

1/2d6 RKA, +1 STUN (+1/4), NND (defense is being an inanimate object, +1), Indirect (+1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Requires Skill Roll (hexslingin', no active point penalty, -0), must draw one pair or higher (-1)

 

+1/2d6 RKA, +1 STUN (+1/4), NND (defense is being an inanimate object, +1), Does BODY (+1), Indirect (+1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Requires Skill Roll (hexslingin', no active point penalty, -0), must draw a pair of jacks or higher (-2 1/4)

 

+1DC, +1 STUN (+1/4), NND (defense is being an inanimate object, +1), Does BODY (+1), Indirect (+1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Requires Skill Roll (hexslingin', no active point penalty, -0), must draw two pairs or higher (-2 1/2)

 

+1DC, +1 STUN (+1/4), NND (defense is being an inanimate object, +1), Does BODY (+1), Indirect (+1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Requires Skill Roll (hexslingin', no active point penalty, -0), must draw three of a kind or higher (-2 3/4)

 

+2DC, +1 STUN (+1/4), NND (defense is being an inanimate object, +1), Does BODY (+1), Indirect (+1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Requires Skill Roll (hexslingin', no active point penalty, -0), must draw a straight or higher (-3)

 

+2DC, +1 STUN (+1/4), NND (defense is being an inanimate object, +1), Does BODY (+1), Indirect (+1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Requires Skill Roll (hexslingin', no active point penalty, -0), must draw a flush or higher (-3 1/4)

 

+1DC, +1 STUN (+1/4), NND (defense is being an inanimate object, +1), Does BODY (+1), Indirect (+1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Requires Skill Roll (hexslingin', no active point penalty, -0), must draw a full house or higher (-3 1/2)

 

+2DC, +1 STUN (+1/4), NND (defense is being an inanimate object, +1), Does BODY (+1), Indirect (+1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Requires Skill Roll (hexslingin', no active point penalty, -0), must draw four of a kind or higher (-4 1/4)

 

+3DC, +1 STUN (+1/4), NND (defense is being an inanimate object, +1), Does BODY (+1), Indirect (+1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Requires Skill Roll (hexslingin', no active point penalty, -0), must draw a straight flush or higher (-5 1/2)

 

+9DC, +1 STUN (+1/4), NND (defense is being an inanimate object, +1), Does BODY (+1), Indirect (+1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Requires Skill Roll (hexslingin', no active point penalty, -0), must draw a royal flush or higher (-6 1/2)

 

total active 457

total final 90

 

Oh yeah, I just now realized I didn't take the whole Backlash thing into account. Anyway, this was intended as an illustration rather than a final product. Use this as a springboard if you want.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Gurps Deadland Hero : Husckster

 

Rise fwom your gwave!

 

I hadn't thought much about this for some time, but I had a eureka moment last night -- rather than try to extend the Activation Roll chart by eyeballing the 1-in-a-million chance of a Royal Flush versus the 26% chance of an 8- roll, I got the idea to string together multiple Activation Rolls until I was able to properly replicate the chance of the corresponding poker hand. I mostly strung together 8- rolls at -2, then at the last I added in whatever roll was necessary to get the right percentage chance. Without further ado, here are the various hands used in Huckster magic and the Limitation level I worked out for them.

 

Jack high -3/4

1 pair -1 1/4

Pair of Jacks -3

2 pair -4

3 of a kind -5 1/2

Straight -7 1/2

Flush -8 3/4

Full House -9 1/2

4 of a kind -12 1/2

Straight Flush -16 3/4

Royal Flush -20

[Savinien]

Re: Gurps Deadland Hero : Husckster

 

Nice. Now run a good, long-lasting pbp game at Hero Central.

 

Get it? Got it? Good.

[jtelson]

Re: Gurps Deadland Hero : Husckster

 

Rise fwom your gwave!

 

I hadn't thought much about this for some time, but I had a eureka moment last night -- rather than try to extend the Activation Roll chart by eyeballing the 1-in-a-million chance of a Royal Flush versus the 26% chance of an 8- roll, I got the idea to string together multiple Activation Rolls until I was able to properly replicate the chance of the corresponding poker hand. I mostly strung together 8- rolls at -2, then at the last I added in whatever roll was necessary to get the right percentage chance. Without further ado, here are the various hands used in Huckster magic and the Limitation level I worked out for them.

 

Jack high -3/4

1 pair -1 1/4

Pair of Jacks -3

2 pair -4

3 of a kind -5 1/2

Straight -7 1/2

Flush -8 3/4

Full House -9 1/2

4 of a kind -12 1/2

Straight Flush -16 3/4

Royal Flush -20

 

Interesting, these are based on a 5 card hand? An important part of Huckstering is doing things to get yourself extra cards (i.e. Draw 9, to make your hand with 5 cards). Also Deadlands decks have both Jokers in. Draw a Joker on a hex and interesting things happen.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Gurps Deadland Hero : Husckster

 

Interesting' date=' these are based on a 5 card hand? An important part of Huckstering is doing things to get yourself extra cards (i.e. Draw 9, to make your hand with 5 cards). Also Deadlands decks have both Jokers in. Draw a Joker on a hex and interesting things happen.[/quote']

 

Yeah, I didn't take the wild Jokers into account. I didn't figure in the possible extra cards because they come up pretty rarely.

 

But the wild Joker thing is an issue...I'll have to go back and look.

[Mitch37]

Re: Gurps Deadland Hero : Husckster

 

Jokers aren't just wild; drawing a Joker is a Botch.

 

Y'see, the special effect of huckster magic is that the huckster is summoning a Wendigo (demon), and bending it to his will. If he wins, the demon uses its power for his benefit (the spell effect). The more powerful the demon, the greater the effect, but it becomes more difficult to control.

 

In the original system, drawing a lot of cards meant you summoned a more powerful demon. The potential poker hand improved, leading to a greater spell effect. Drawing alot of cards also meant you had a better chance of drawing a Joker, which would cause a backlash. This was the demon getting out of control, and slapping you down.

 

So, to really capture the flavor of huckster magic, you'll need a Side Effect that's more likely to kick in as the "poker hand" improves. This was part of the fun of playing them; the combination of awe and fear when you made a great casting roll.

[Maur]

Re: Gurps Deadland Hero : Husckster

 

IIRC drawing either joker wasn't a botch, but they were wild and caused feedback. My huckster had a talent that made me only suffer feedback if I drew the red joker. Drawing the black didn't do anything to me. As for how often drawing extra cards came up, well, my huckster was regularly able to draw 7 or more cards to make his 5 card hand.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Gurps Deadland Hero : Husckster

 

Well, I got the book here...let's see...

 

Jokers are counted as wild cards. The Red Joker you get for free' date=' but the Black Joker has a high price.[/quote']

 

So, the odds should be calculated with wild jokers for Limitation purposes. The spell will already have a Side Effect to represent Backlash in case of a failed roll. I don't think adding that chance of drawing a black joker would affect the Side Effect too much, but I'll look at it some time and see.

[BlackSword]

Re: Gurps Deadland Hero : Husckster

 

Well, I got the book here...let's see...

 

 

 

So, the odds should be calculated with wild jokers for Limitation purposes. The spell will already have a Side Effect to represent Backlash in case of a failed roll. I don't think adding that chance of drawing a black joker would affect the Side Effect too much, but I'll look at it some time and see.

Or you could just use a deck with both jokers in it during the game.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Gurps Deadland Hero : Husckster

 

Or you could just use a deck with both jokers in it during the game.

 

That's the idea. To do it with a Hero character requires proper limitations on the power, which is the point of the exercise....