Alternative Combat Orders for Combat

[Ki-rin]

Re: Alternative Combat Orders for Combat

 

My biggest gripe with HERO is the flawed movement system in general, the unbalanced impulse chart in specific, and the resultant high cost of SPD in specific. Because of the flawed movment system, SPD is a "special case": It costs _far_ more than any other characteristic and it can't be rounded. These are blemishes on an otherwise superior system.

 

We have tried a trick learned from Star Fleet Battles to help fix this and it seems to work better than HERO "as written":

A) We use a SPD chart whose maximum number of phases is equal to that of the fastest character in the tactical situation.

We use what seems under playtest to be more balanced phase chart(s):

1 x x x x x x 1 1 1 1 1

2 x x x 1 1 1 x x 2 2 2

3 x x 1 x x x 2 2 x 3 3

4 x 1 x x 2 2 x 3 3 x 4

5 x x x 2 x x 3 x 4 4 5

6 x x x x x 3 4 4 5 5 6

7 1 x 2 x 3 x x 5 x 6 x

8 x x x 3 x 4 5 x 6 7 7

9 x 2 x x 4 x x 6 7 x 8

A x x x x x 5 6 7 8 8 9

B x x 3 4 x x 7 x x 9 A

C x x x x 5 6 x 8 9 A B

 

1 x x x 1 1

2 x 1 1 x 2

3 x x x 2 3

4 1 x 2 3 x

5 x 2 x x 4

6 x x 3 4 5

 

Are the House impulse charts with a maximum SPD of 12 and 6 respectively. These impulse charts being more "balanced" allowed us to experiment with lowering the cost for SPD to +5 CP= +1 SPD.

 

We've also experimented both with allowing the rounding of SPD and in different ways of treating am "x.3" SPD as being different from a "x.4" SPD.

[Ki-rin]

Re: Alternative Combat Orders for Combat

 

One of the best alternate speed charts systems I have ever heard of is the one based on the Deadlands deck of cards.

 

It goes like this.

1) Take a normal deck of cards and throw out the jokers.

2) The deck is shuffled and each player draws a number of cards equal to his speed.

3) The GM starts counting down the cards and when a player's card comes up he can act.

4) The order of the cards go Ace to Duece and Spades, Hearts, Diamonds, Clubs.

 

So an Ace of Hearts beats an Ace of Diamonds. A King beats a 7 etc.

 

I have never actually used this, but would really like to try it out and see how it does.

 

Whether it works well or not, that's a very imaginative way of approaching the problem! Cool!

 

Since ITRW ties do occur, I'd treat the all cards of the same rank as equal, but that's a minor tweak.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Alternative Combat Orders for Combat

 

While I also disagree that the SPD chart makes things cumbersome, I don't have a pre-fab SPD/DEX chart. Each player knows his phases and DEX. I stack NPC sheets in order of DEX and have their SPD's across the top, so I rifle them. "Next Phase 2 action - DEX 25" Player: "Dex 27 - my move".

 

Combine a GM with a reliance on a chart with a PC who has a DEX drain, and watch the chaos break loose. "OK, 25 DEX - BadGuy moves." "Didn't BadGuy get DEX Drained". "Oh, right - he has a 23 DEX". "MiracleGirl has a 24, so she moves" chaos of MiracleGirl's action ensures.

 

"OK, next DEX is 21"

 

And yes, we had exactly that situation in a campaign. Maybe if you had a laptop with a spreadsheet, and could update DEX on the fly and re-sort, but that's too much hassle for me.

 

Hugh, mate, I'm quoting:

 

....an organised GM can write out an order of combat....

 

I am NOT an organised GM, never was and never will be, so the perfectly valid points you make will never apply to me!

[zornwil]

Re: Alternative Combat Orders for Combat

 

I actually try to get my players to get speeds suitable to their play. I've been in campaigns where I had a SPD 4 character with other characters at SPD 15. Gave me time to figure out optimal moves and sketch. (or get pizza...)

 

It does seem to make a bigger difference at lower levels. My SPD 5 character in a Fantasy game had a lot of advantages. That free phase from interferance on seg 10 for instance.

 

If it's being a problem for you, then I would compact the SPD range of your PCs then.

Sheesh, that's why I have to play a SPD 1 character, you know, I know I'm slow in combat and like to read, but stop handing me War and Peace at the door, I'd like to step up to a SPD 2...

 

[zornwil]

Re: Alternative Combat Orders for Combat

 

I've played a lot of Deadlands. I'm with you on this, it was one of the things that cause me me to move on.

 

I hate the idea of hanging around doing nothing because of bad luck. Missing and failing skills rolls I can handle, setting on my hands and being unable to work with my team- nope.

Personally, I liked the cards thing in Deadlands, except that I also think that our GM (Lamrok, as Lemming mentioned) made a good mod by guaranteeing at least one action during the turn - he did this after one of our players got handed two bad cards in a row and lost two turns.

 

PS - I wouldn't change HERO, though, just saying I liked the mechanic in Deadlands for that game.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Alternative Combat Orders for Combat

 

A group of us who played at University get together occasionally to drink beer and play Champions.

 

My character is Monster Girl, a shapeshifter who can assume various huge monstrous shapes, By huge i mean she has about 30 points of growth in a multipower, so she can grow up to about 8 metres tall.

 

Last session, a couple of months ago, MG was confromted by a 16m tall giant robot. She flipped out, and the GM presented me with a new character sheet and a scale model of a 32m Godzilla rip off. Boy was that cool.

 

The Godzillan had astronomical defences and attacks, but a speed of 2.

 

It was great fun, but I drank so much beer waiting for the others to take their turns that I barely remember the end of the evening at all....

 

No real point to this post, just thought I'd share

[zornwil]

Re: Alternative Combat Orders for Combat

 

To answer the original question directly, first I should point out that some issues with the SPD chart are handled for me in that I consider all (give or take) actions in a segment to be simultaneous. For more on that just search for posts by me with "SPD" or even probably the word "simultaneous", or just look in the threads Lord Liaden suggested.

 

Second, more directly, for the new "beer and pretzels" game I'm creating based on HERO, I simply eliminated SPD. I replaced it with an Initiative system. Initiative relates to a few key characteristics, and you move on the Initiative step related to the particular action and WHICH characteristic it relates to. If you want to do a somersault, your Initiative is based on your Agility Skill Area Rating (Agility SAR). If you want to just punch, your Initiative is based on your Combat SAR. If you want to analyze something, your Initiative is based on your Intellect SAR. If you want to move, your Initiative is based on your Movement SAR. And so on. Everyone normally can do something once per turn, but there will be a method to have an additional action, probably no more than that. Your turn can be taken in Half Phases, so you can take each Half Phase according to your Initiative for the action for the Half Phase (so in other words, a half move could take place at the earliest based on your Movement SAR while your punch could take place at the earliest based on your Combat or Martial Arts SAR).

[zornwil]

Re: Alternative Combat Orders for Combat

 

A group of us who played at University get together occasionally to drink beer and play Champions.

 

My character is Monster Girl, a shapeshifter who can assume various huge monstrous shapes, By huge i mean she has about 30 points of growth in a multipower, so she can grow up to about 8 metres tall.

 

Last session, a couple of months ago, MG was confromted by a 16m tall giant robot. She flipped out, and the GM presented me with a new character sheet and a scale model of a 32m Godzilla rip off. Boy was that cool.

 

The Godzillan had astronomical defences and attacks, but a speed of 2.

 

It was great fun, but I drank so much beer waiting for the others to take their turns that I barely remember the end of the evening at all....

 

No real point to this post, just thought I'd share

Good story!