Dr. Anomaly Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Re: How long to make Master Mold? How very South Park of you. If you say so...has South Park said/done something along those lines? If so, I'm sorry for an unintentional plagerisation...I don't watch South Park -- never have, likely never will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted May 18, 2005 Report Share Posted May 18, 2005 Re: How long to make Master Mold? It's at this point we discover that Wal-Mart (the store) is in fact a large' date=' somewhat klunky Von Newman machine that incorporates humanity as part of its matrix and has been steadily reproducing itself for years. Once a certain "critical mass" is reached (x% of the planet transformed into Wal-Marts) all existing Wal-Mart stores will uproot themselves and stride across the landscape like the Martial war machines, laying waste to all in their path.[/quote'] Great, now I have to try to squeeze this into my signature file.... Maybe I'll just use it for my email sig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted May 18, 2005 Report Share Posted May 18, 2005 Re: How long to make Master Mold? If you say so...has South Park said/done something along those lines? If so' date=' I'm sorry for an unintentional plagerisation...I don't watch [i']South Park[/i] -- never have, likely never will. "Something Wal-Mart This Way Comes" had some points of simularity. Your choice to watch South Park or not, but if not, you are missing some of the most original stuff on television. Let me guess, you're one of those people who doesn't watch television. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Anomaly Posted May 18, 2005 Report Share Posted May 18, 2005 Re: How long to make Master Mold? "Something Wal-Mart This Way Comes" had some points of simularity. Your choice to watch South Park or not, but if not, you are missing some of the most original stuff on television. Let me guess, you're one of those people who doesn't watch television. No, I do watch it...just not a lot of it. And what little I saw/heard of South Park when it first came out just turned me off. It looked to me like a bunch of badly-animated kids with poor attitudes indulging in a lot of gratuitous cursing. Not really my 'thing'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlHazred Posted May 18, 2005 Report Share Posted May 18, 2005 Re: How long to make Master Mold? And fail. Have I missed something? Has there in RL ever been a human built Von Newman machine? Yep. [EDIT - There is no shame in being scooped by dbsousa.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted May 18, 2005 Report Share Posted May 18, 2005 Re: How long to make Master Mold? No' date=' I do watch it...just not a [i']lot[/i] of it. And what little I saw/heard of South Park when it first came out just turned me off. It looked to me like a bunch of badly-animated kids with poor attitudes indulging in a lot of gratuitous cursing. Not really my 'thing'. Yes, it is poorly animated, that's part of the charm. Don't think I would call the language "gratuitous." But there is a lot of lampoon, social comentary, and genuinely funny stuff in this series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted May 18, 2005 Report Share Posted May 18, 2005 Re: How long to make Master Mold? Your choice to watch South Park or not, but if not, you are missing some of the most original stuff on television. Which is a shining example of the quality of modern entertainment... Granted, I've seen a few episodes of South Park and liked it (like when the loser kid turned supervillain and tried to flood the world by leaving his garden hose on), a few others it just seemed like poorly presented shock television (like a singing turd). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guyon Posted May 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2005 Re: How long to make Master Mold? McCoy Wrote: Somehow I get the impression Guyon's players are looking for a way around the point cost. That is exactly what they are tying to do. Build a base at near zero point cost and in record time. I do not want to stifle their creative process and take any fun out of the game. On the other hand I don't want them to do just anything they want just because they are anxious to get it done. If I let that go I lose all control of my game, plus what will they want to do next in 2 weeks? Besides, "Haste makes waste." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted May 18, 2005 Report Share Posted May 18, 2005 Re: How long to make Master Mold? That is exactly what they are tying to do. Build a base at near zero point cost and in record time. If they don't pay points for it, then it really isn't their base. I'd let them do it, but use it as a plot device, and have everything go wrong. That kind of technology might draw attention from national security types, and what if the program developes its own intelligence. Maybe its the AI's base... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted May 18, 2005 Report Share Posted May 18, 2005 Re: How long to make Master Mold? That is exactly what they are tying to do. Build a base at near zero point cost and in record time. I do not want to stifle their creative process and take any fun out of the game. On the other hand I don't want them to do just anything they want just because they are anxious to get it done. If I let that go I lose all control of my game, plus what will they want to do next in 2 weeks? Besides, "Haste makes waste." There is no way around paying for your own stuff. You either pay for it, or you don't get it. The Points don't care where it comes from, that's the GM's and the player's job and just SFX. The points are only concerned with what it does and how it affects the campaign world. Although if you want to get tricky, you can tell your players that whatever they spend on the robot builders will be the total value of the base the robots eventually build. No more, no less. What could be really fun is to go ahead and let them have what they want, but really only give them what they pay for. They're paying for some robots. All they get is robots. They tell the robots to build them a base, what will they do as the robots start to dissassemble the city for raw materials? What will the players do with the robots have had enough of the characters' senseless and contradictory commands, so they add a small army of soldier robot to kill the PCs once they enter the base because they can't directly act against the heroes themselves. "The base is complete, please go inside.... please, wouldn't you like to see the inside of the base? The inside is really nice, we placed food in there. You like food? Go see the food in the base... yes, go inside... hahahahahaahaha." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guyon Posted May 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2005 Re: How long to make Master Mold? Even before I posted this question, I had it in the back of my mind that sometime we have to have the robots go nuts and try and kill the players. I am sure they are expecting that. Also cheep parts do brake down causing the players problems too. But.... Dust Raven's idea about the robots going crazy and taking the city apart to use for materials is sheer genius. I am still laughing that the thought of that idea. You made my day! I am still very torn about if I should let them do this, or how long it should take. At any rate, It will make a few nice plot twists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted May 20, 2005 Report Share Posted May 20, 2005 Re: How long to make Master Mold? But.... Dust Raven's idea about the robots going crazy and taking the city apart to use for materials is sheer genius. I am still laughing that the thought of that idea. You made my day! Well, I try... ... and thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted May 20, 2005 Report Share Posted May 20, 2005 Re: How long to make Master Mold? Probably not important, but... This thread had got me thinking about the concept of self replicating machines and I started doing some research. Turns out that these aren't Von Neuman machines at all. I thought it was kinda weird the term was being tossed all over this thread but not mentioned once in the articles I've been reading about the recent development, and did a search. You know what a Von Neuman machine is? It's a standard computer, and we've been using them for years! While John Von Neuman did do lots of thought research into the concept of self replicating machines, he also did a lot of thinking into how to design a computing machine in the most efficient manner, and his design is what was used as a model for the modern PC. The term he used to refer to his self-replicating machines was Universal Replicators, or Clanking Replicators. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted May 20, 2005 Report Share Posted May 20, 2005 Re: How long to make Master Mold? The term he used to refer to his self-replicating machines was Universal Replicators' date=' or Clanking Replicators.[/quote'] I stand corrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted May 20, 2005 Report Share Posted May 20, 2005 Re: How long to make Master Mold? Probably not important, but... This thread had got me thinking about the concept of self replicating machines and I started doing some research. Turns out that these aren't Von Neuman machines at all. I thought it was kinda weird the term was being tossed all over this thread but not mentioned once in the articles I've been reading about the recent development, and did a search. You know what a Von Neuman machine is? It's a standard computer, and we've been using them for years! While John Von Neuman did do lots of thought research into the concept of self replicating machines, he also did a lot of thinking into how to design a computing machine in the most efficient manner, and his design is what was used as a model for the modern PC. The term he used to refer to his self-replicating machines was Universal Replicators, or Clanking Replicators. Nice catch. It didn't seem quite right to me, either. However, it was more interesting to get caught up in the intent rather than the terminology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
input.jack Posted May 21, 2005 Report Share Posted May 21, 2005 Re: How long to make Master Mold? Okay, chiming in with my 2 cents... The primary characters involved in this project are superheroes, right? But theyre apparently -not- "tech-based heroes" (like Iron Man), or "gadgeteers" (like Batman). Nor are they "super scientists" (like Reed Richards). So...how far do you think this little project would get if they -werent- superheroes? If I read this correctly, the main "engineer" of the group is a guy with a "slightly above average intellect" (Im guessing a 13 INT), and little computer programming training. Assuming that the tech-base of the campaign isnt -too- different from the real world (and we have no reason to infer that it is), then Id say that their results should be based on how much time they spend on it....and who they hire to help them. Just like a normal persons results would be. Yeah....tin sheeting tacked to 2x4's, guarded by remote control toys taped to kitchen knives. That -does- sound about right. If they want to go to Wal-Mart and buy components to build robots, to build robots, to build their base...laugh at them. They got it coming. It looks to me that your players are trying to bully you into giving them too much for free. If one of them were an "Iron Man" type, or something, who -already- had alot of technical and scientific skills, and the campaigns tech base was higher than that of modern Earth, then I might let them have the base they -paid for- in the time they ask. But theyd have to pay for it first. And the players would be able to justify the scientifically revolutionary breakthroughs of making not only working, self-replicating robits, but ones that could walk independantly, recognize coplex situations and objects, and perform useful functions such as construction, in so short an amount of time. And itd cost a h*lluva lot more money than parts from Wal-Mart. I mean geez! Nobody thought to go to Radio Shack for the computer parts! SHEESH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted May 21, 2005 Report Share Posted May 21, 2005 Re: How long to make Master Mold? If they want to go to Wal-Mart and buy components to build robots' date=' to build robots, to build their base...laugh at them. They got it coming.[/quote'] If you haven't seen the flim, Explorers, do so. It's amazing what a dream and a little bit of imagination can accomplish. But yes, you should still laugh at them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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