Too much tweaking? Too powerful?

[largosama]

I have a player in my group that has an immortal/regenerating hero. His character has been around in the game world for about 2,000 years. Due to this, he has learned many martial arts skills and skills. I decided to let him do a multipower Martial Arts as well (constantly switching styles) Fine... He's intending to play a Immortal Batman style character. He also has access to various gadgets through the 'grey market' contacts that is done up via a VPP:

 

42 Grey Market Contacts Variable Power Pool, 35 base + 7 control cost, (53 Active Points); Limited Class Of Powers Available Limited (Real Items only; -1/2), VPP Powers Can Be Changed Only In Given Circumstance (With access

to contacts and/or connections; -1/2), VPP Can Only Be Changed Between Adventures (-1/2)

 

I told the group at the end of the first session that if they need to do some minor tweaking they can do so. This was intended to fix up powers/stats in characters that when writing up the characters made sense, but now that they've played the character, it just doesn't work/make sense for the character...

 

Alrighty, so the guy reduced his Grey Market VPP to 35 and gave all of those a 15- activation roll.

 

35 Grey Market Contacts: Variable Power Pool, 30 base + 5 control cost, (45 Active Points); VPP Can Only Be Changed Between Adventures (-1/2), VPP Powers Can Be Changed Only In Given Circumstance (With access to contacts and/or connections; -1/2), Limited Class Of Powers Available Limited (Real Items only; -1/2); all slots Activation Roll 15- (-1/4)

 

0 1) Armored Costume: Armor (8 PD/4 ED) (18 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), Real Armor (-1/4), Activation Roll 15- (-1/4) Real Cost: 9

0 2) Auto-Polarizing Lenses: Sight Group Flash Defense (6 points) (6 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), Real Armor (-1/4), Activation Roll 15- (-1/4) Real Cost: 3

0 3) Linegun: Swinging 10", x4 Noncombat (15 Active Points); OAF (-1), Activation Roll 15- (-1/4) Real Cost: 7 1

0 4) Mini-Radio: Radio Perception/Transmission (Radio Group) (10 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), Activation Roll 15- (-1/4) Real Cost: 6

0 5) Medical Kit: Healing STUN (Simplified Healing) 3d6, Requires A PS: Emergency Medicine Roll (No Active Point penalty to Skill Roll +0) (30 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Turn (Post-Segment 12), Character May Take No Other Actions, -1 1/2), Gestures (Requires both hands; Complex; -3/4), Does Not Work On Some Damage Two or More Types of Damage (Severe Trama) (-1/2), Concentration (0 DCV; -1/2), 8 Charges (-1/2), Activation Roll 15- (-1/4) Real Cost: 6

 

 

 

He used the leftover points to add a Utility Belt:

 

8 Utility Belt: Multipower, 20-point reserve, (20 Active Points); OIF (-1/2); all slots OAF (-1)

 

 

1u 1) Advanced Lockpicks: +2 with Lockpicking (4 Active Points); OAF (-1)

1u 2) Multitool: +2 with Mechanics (4 Active Points); OAF (-1)

1u 3) Microelectronics kit: +2 with Electronics (4 Active Points); OAF (-1)

1u 4) Flashlight: Sight Group Images 1" radius, 1 Continuing Fuel Charge lasting 1 Hour (+0) (10 Active Points); Only To Create Light (-1), OAF (-1), Limited Range (10"; -1/4)

1u 5) Smoke Bombs: Darkness to Sight Group 2" radius (20 Active Points); OAF (-1), Range Based On Strength (-1/4), 6 Continuing Charges lasting 1 Turn each (-1/4), Gestures (-1/4)

1u 6) Throwing Blades: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 1d6-1 (1d6+1 w/STR), Range Based On STR (+1/4) (12 Active Points); OAF (-1), 6 Recoverable Charges (-1/4)

1u 7) Collapsible Staff: Hand-To-Hand Attack +3d6 (15 Active Points); OAF (-1), Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4)

 

 

Do you think I should allow this? Too much tweaking from the first version to the second? Do you think that this character is trying to do too much (martial arts, immortality, gadgets). Opinions?

[NeoSamurai]

Re: Too much tweaking? Too powerful?

 

I can't really comment until I see the character's disadvantages as well.

[largosama]

Re: Too much tweaking? Too powerful?

 

Full powers/disadvantages:

 

Blessing of the Grail, all slots Inherent (+1/4); all slots Visible (Mild white/divine glow when powers are actively protecting or healing; -1/4)

5 1) Blessing of Health: Healing BODY 1 point, Can Heal Limbs, Inherent (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (18 Active Points); Extra Time (5 Minutes, -2), Self Only (-1/2), Visible (Mild white/divine glow when powers are actively protecting or healing; -1/4)

5 2) The Resurrection: Major Transform 1d6 (Dead Body into Live Body), Inherent (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (34 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Day, -4), Limited Target ([Very Limited]; Self only, when dead, body must be fairly intact and no last rites performed; -1), Visible (Mild white/divine glow when powers are actively protecting or healing; -1/4)

35 3) Blessing of Health: Life Support (Eating: Character does not eat; Immunity: All terrestrial diseases and biowarfare agents; Immunity: All terrestrial poisons and chemical warfare agents; Longevity:: Immortal; Safe in High Pressure; Safe in High Radiation; Safe in Intense Cold; Safe in Intense Heat; Safe in Low Pressure/Vacuum; Self-Contained Breathing; Sleeping: Character does not sleep), Inherent (+1/4) (62 Active Points); Always On (-1/2), Visible (Mild white/divine glow when powers are actively protecting or healing; -1/4)

 

8 Utility Belt: Multipower, 20-point reserve, (20 Active Points); OIF (-1/2); all slots OAF (-1)

1u 1) Advanced Lockpicks: +2 with Lockpicking (4 Active Points); OAF (-1)

1u 2) Multitool: +2 with Mechanics (4 Active Points); OAF (-1)

1u 3) Microelectronics kit: +2 with Electronics (4 Active Points); OAF (-1)

1u 4) Flashlight: Sight Group Images 1" radius, 1 Continuing Fuel Charge lasting 1 Hour (+0) (10 Active Points); Only To Create Light (-1), OAF (-1), Limited Range (10"; -1/4)

1u 5) Smoke Bombs: Darkness to Sight Group 2" radius (20 Active Points); OAF (-1), Range Based On Strength (-1/4), 6 Continuing Charges lasting 1 Turn each (-1/4), Gestures (-1/4)

1u 6) Throwing Blades: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 1d6-1 (1d6+1 w/STR), Range Based On STR (+1/4) (12 Active Points); OAF (-1), 6 Recoverable Charges (-1/4)

1u 7) Collapsible Staff: Hand-To-Hand Attack +3d6 (15 Active Points); OAF (-1), Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4) 1

 

35 Grey Market Contacts: Variable Power Pool, 30 base + 5 control cost, (45 Active Points); VPP Can Only Be Changed Between Adventures (-1/2), VPP Powers Can Be Changed Only In Given Circumstance (With access to contacts and/or connections; -1/2), Limited Class Of Powers Available Limited (Real Items only; -1/2); all slots Activation Roll 15- (-1/4)

0 1) Armored Costume: Armor (8 PD/4 ED) (18 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), Real Armor (-1/4), Activation Roll 15- (-1/4) Real Cost: 9

0 2) Auto-Polarizing Lenses: Sight Group Flash Defense (6 points) (6 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), Real Armor (-1/4), Activation Roll 15- (-1/4) Real Cost: 3

0 3) Linegun: Swinging 10", x4 Noncombat (15 Active Points); OAF (-1), Activation Roll 15- (-1/4) Real Cost: 7 1

0 4) Mini-Radio: Radio Perception/Transmission (Radio Group) (10 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), Activation Roll 15- (-1/4) Real Cost: 6

0 5) Medical Kit: Healing STUN (Simplified Healing) 3d6, Requires A PS: Emergency Medicine Roll (No Active Point penalty to Skill Roll +0) (30 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Turn (Post-Segment 12), Character May Take No Other Actions, -1 1/2), Gestures (Requires both hands; Complex; -3/4), Does Not Work On Some Damage Two or More Types of Damage (Severe Trama) (-1/2), Concentration (0 DCV; -1/2), 8 Charges (-1/2), Activation Roll 15- (-1/4) Real Cost: 6

 

25 Memories: Remembered skills (Skill Pool), 20 base + 5 control cost, (30 Active Points); Limited Class Of Powers Available Very Limited (Skills only, no martial arts; -1)

 

27 2000 Years and 1000 Forms: Multipower, 40-point reserve, (40 Active Points); Gestures (Requires both hands; -1/2)

1u 1) +5 with Breakfall (10 Active Points)

1u 2) Chi Strikes: +10 STR (10 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), Only to add to martial combat actions (-1/4)

 

2000 Years and 1000 Forms - all slots are multipower ultra slots with listed AP reserve cost

1 1) Quick Strike: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +0 DCV, +2 DC Strike, 4 Active Points

1 2) Side/Spin Kick: 1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, +1 DCV, +4 DC Strike, 5 AP

1 3) Stone Breaking Strike: 1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, +0 DCV, +1 DC HKA, 4 AP

1 4) Striking Block: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +2 DCV, Block, Abort, 4 AP

1 5) Grappling Block: 1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, +1 DCV, Grab One Limb, Block, Abort, 5 AP

1 6) Evasion: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +5 DCV, Dodge vs all Attacks, Abort, 4AP

1 7) Quick-step Evasion: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +4 DCV, Dodge All attacks, Abort, up to FMove, 5 AP

1 8) Charging Attack: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, -2 DCV, +2 + v/5 DC Strike, up to FMove, 5 AP

1 9) Charging Grapple: 1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, -1 DCV, Grab 2 Limbs, +10 STR for holding on, up to FMove, 5 AP

1 10) Escape: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, +15 STR to escape grabs, 4 AP

1 11) Reversal: var. Phase, -1 OCV, -2 DCV, +15 STR to escape grab, Grab 2 Limbs, 4 AP

1 12) Choke hold: 1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, +0 DCV, Grab 1 Limb (Head), 2d6 NND (neck protection defends), 4 AP

1 13) Joint Lock/Throw: 1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, +0 DCV, Grab One Limb, 1d6 NND (reinforced covering protects), Target Falls, 4 AP

1 14) Joint Break: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, -2 DCV, Grab one limb, +1/2d6 HKA, Disable, 5 AP

1 15) Standing Grapple: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, -1 DCV, Grab 2 Limbs, +10 STR to hold on, 3 AP

1 16) Standing Throw: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +2 DCV, +2d6 Strike, Target Falls, must follow Grab, 3 AP

1 17) Falling Throw: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +1 DCV, Strike, You Fall, Target Falls, 3 AP

1 18) Disarming Throw: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, Grab Weapon, +5 STR takeaway, Target falls, 5 AP

1 19) Sidestep Throw: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +3 DCV, +v/5 Strike, Abort, Dodge 1 attack, Target Falls, can only follow target movement, 5 AP

6 20) Weapon Element: Blades, Chain & Rope Weapons, Karate Weapons, Mourn Staff, Staffs, Three-Section Staff

 

 

Disadvantages

 

 

20 Normal Characteristic Maxima: No Age Restriction

15 Physical Limitation: Inhuman Physiology (Infrequently, Fully Impairing)

Notes: The grail blessings are always on. Painkillers, anti-biotics, anti-depressants, etc all do not work. Surgery does not work (the incision will heal within minutes) and weird things happen as they try to treat him.

20 Hunted: Catholic Church 8- (Mo Pow, NCI, Harshly Punish)

Notes: He predates the Christian church itself and is, ultimately, something of a pagan. He is a Christian in the sense that he believes in the Almighty and in the divinity of Jesus, but does not adhere to the teachings of the Church (in his mind, if God wanted him to change, he'd, ya know, withdraw his blessing or something). For its part, the Church knows the grail is lost but in circulation and has picked up hints and legends about Leonidas, during the times when he wasn't as active about hiding his identity.

20 Psychological Limitation: Code of Conduct: Soldier's Code (Common, Total)

Notes: The Soldier's Code: This is the Code of Conduct between "good-guy" soldiers on TV and in the movies. It's better to die on your feet than live on your knees. Never leave a man behind. Never give up, never give in. Never let an insult to you or your unit go unpunished. Will not Murder-will use overwhelming lethal force on the battlefield, but will not attack innocents, will accept surrenders, does not attack the wounded, etc.

20 Psychological Limitation: Will not break his word (Common, Total)

15 Psychological Limitation: Avoids Publicity (Very Common, Moderate)

15 Hunted: Zorran the Artificer 8- (Mo Pow, Harshly Punish)

15 Hunted: Shadow Dragon 11- (As Pow, Harshly Punish)

10 Hunted: Cateran 8- (Mo Pow, Mildly Punish)

0 Hunted: Foxbat 8- (Less Pow, Mildly Punish)

0 Hunted: Past acquaintances 8- (Less Pow, Watching)

[incrdbil]

Re: Too much tweaking? Too powerful?

 

Due to this, he has learned many martial arts skills and skills. I decided to let him do a multipower Martial Arts as well (constantly switching styles)

 

Multipower martial arts? As in various moves in a MP? Umm, all i can say is.."No". Let me strengthen that to a "Oh Helllllllll No." Red Flag. Danger Danger. Never in a million years. The ghosts of GM spirit' dead and crushed by munchkins scream "Beware" from beyond the grave!

 

This is, IMHO, a deal breaker.

 

 

 

0 1) Armored Costume: Armor (8 PD/4 ED) (18 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), Real Armor (-1/4), Activation Roll 15- (-1/4) Real Cost: 9

 

Passes the Real item test, barely.

 

0 2) Auto-Polarizing Lenses: Sight Group Flash Defense (6 points) (6 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), Real Armor (-1/4), Activation Roll 15- (-1/4) Real Cost: 3

 

Fails Real World Item test

 

0 3) Linegun: Swinging 10", x4 Noncombat (15 Active Points); OAF (-1), Activation Roll 15- (-1/4) Real Cost: 7 1

 

x4 Noncombat? again, fails real world item test without limits like Bulky, hiuge delay time before reuse, charges...

 

0 4) Mini-Radio: Radio Perception/Transmission (Radio Group) (10 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), Activation Roll 15- (-1/4) Real Cost: 6

 

passes real item test.

 

0 5) Medical Kit: Healing STUN (Simplified Healing) 3d6, Requires A PS:

 

Depends on yuor definition of smelling salts or stimulants.

 

 

 

He used the leftover points to add a Utility Belt:

 

8 Utility Belt: Multipower, 20-point reserve, (20 Active Points); OIF (-1/2); all slots OAF (-1)

 

1u 1) Advanced Lockpicks: +2 with Lockpicking (4 Active Points); OAF (-1)

1u 2) Multitool: +2 with Mechanics (4 Active Points); OAF (-1)

1u 3) Microelectronics kit: +2 with Electronics (4 Active Points); OAF (-1)

 

 

too much nerfing to get cheap skill levels--the multipower nature is no effective limmit on these exclusive skills. make him buy these straight out.

 

 

1u 4) Flashlight: Sight Group Images 1" radius, 1 Continuing Fuel Charge lasting 1 Hour (+0) (10 Active Points); Only To Create Light (-1), OAF (-1), Limited Range (10"; -1/4)

 

 

Oh, just let him have a flashlight.

 

1u 5) Smoke Bombs: Darkness to Sight Group 2" radius (20 Active Points); OAF (-1), Range Based On Strength (-1/4), 6 Continuing Charges lasting 1 Turn each (-1/4), Gestures (-1/4)

 

Fairly typical.

 

1u 6) Throwing Blades: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 1d6-1 (1d6+1 w/STR), Range Based On STR (+1/4) (12 Active Points); OAF (-1), 6 Recoverable Charges (-1/4)

 

harmless.

 

1u 7) Collapsible Staff: Hand-To-Hand Attack +3d6 (15 Active Points); OAF (-1), Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4)

 

If this attack exceeds your DC limits, then no. If this attack is all that lets him reach the average DC level, then he's very easily disarmed and limited in causing starightforward damage. I think those staff style weapons are more usable as an inch or so of streching for the suprise attacks, a little leaping

[NeoSamurai]

Re: Too much tweaking? Too powerful?

 

You got cheezed. That limburger really smells.

 

In all seriousness...I recommend the alteration as it makes him somewhat less powerful, but I'd also see about imposing an added flaw on the grail benefits that deal with the Christian ideals espoused by Christ (such as a requirement of living a pious life) or something.

 

also, if you have more than 2 players in the group, such a game may prove tough to run with how his character can overshadow the game (read: BatGod)--unless this is a cosmic type level game. If that's the case, then there shouldn't be any problem.

[largosama]

Re: Too much tweaking? Too powerful?

 

The multi-powered martial arts... we had huge arguments over but because at that time none of us had actualy played this game, I wasn't sure how it all was going to work out. He wanted a way to be able to switch fighting styles and do different moves (kinda like Lei from Tekken fame)... any advice on how to do this?

[Black Rose]

Re: Too much tweaking? Too powerful?

 

I think you should come down on that martial arts multipower you have posted with all the fury of a thousand suns, and fast. It's one thing to have the moves stat-ed out and buying them as slots (the multipower rules will balance things out for you), but to let someone throw those cheap-as-heck maneuvers into a multipower? To quote incrdbil, though for different reason, I think, '"No". Let me strengthen that to a "Oh Helllllllll No." Red Flag. Danger Danger. Never in a million years. The ghosts of GM spirit' dead and crushed by munchkins scream "Beware" from beyond the grave!' But I might be overstating the cheese-factor on thi... no, wait, I'm not.

[largosama]

Re: Too much tweaking? Too powerful?

 

Also, just as a note, many (if not all) of the items such as the Utility Belt, he got straight from the Gadgets & Gear book

[Vanguard00]

Re: Too much tweaking? Too powerful?

 

The multi-powered martial arts... we had huge arguments over but because at that time none of us had actualy played this game' date=' I wasn't sure how it all was going to work out. He wanted a way to be able to switch fighting styles and do different moves (kinda like Lei from Tekken fame)... any advice on how to do this?[/quote']

I'm in agreement with the Martial Arts multipower being a big no-no and highly abusive. There's no reason the MA maneuvers should be in a multipower when you can have him buy them normally and simply allow him to say the strike is a "karate chop" or a "jab" or a "elbow strike" or whatever. The maneuver is the same no matter the style.

 

If he really wants to be a "master of all styles" he should buy the relavent KSs for each style: Kung Fu, Judo, Karate, Boxing, Pankraton (sp?), Commando Training, etc. Otherwise he's not really a master.

 

What I'd probably do is make him buy whatever maneuvers he wanted without any sort of pool/enhancement. Let him take a KS: Martial Arts of the world skill, give him a couple of levels ("all styles and none"). If you allow such things, give him a "Distinctive Features: All styles and none" disad to show that he regularly flows from one martial arts style to another mid-combat. He might make a judo legsweep one minute and a wrestling throw the next.

 

I'd be more forgiving on the gadgets, but as has been pointed out that "real item" limitation could be abused. Make sure the "real items" are available in your world, at least to military/government/law enforcement personnel. The utility belt would be acceptable by me assuming he actually possesses the skills in question (i.e. a lockpick set does nothing for someone without lockpicking skill).

 

I'm iffy on the skill pool, myself, but I'd probably allow it and then watch its usage very carefully.

[Lethosos]

Re: Too much tweaking? Too powerful?

 

Hrmm... Have him pull stuff from UMA--but not peicemeal. Make him buy 3 martial arts packages--no more, no less. If you need package writeups, we can arrange for that.

 

The Grail stuff seems a little whacked--but I can accept that. (BTW, I'd drop the Visual FX disad on #3--that would mean he'd be glowing like a torch all the time.)

 

I would have him take some real skills in exchange for dropping the MA multi as well. Something to reflect his prolonged time on Earth, such as KS: History, and multiple languages.

 

And last but not least... Foxbat as a hunted?!? You know that cornball has the attention span of a lemming...

[largosama]

Re: Too much tweaking? Too powerful?

 

I'm iffy on the skill pool, myself, but I'd probably allow it and then watch its usage very carefully.

 

The skill pool was just an idea that the player and I had to represent the fact that he has been around for 2,000 years and knows a lot of things. This way, he'd be able to recall (just using as an example) how to build a wooden barrel or how to ride a horse. There was no way to list everything, so we put it into a pool. Now, I'm definitely not going to let him be able to do 'everything', but enough so that it uses his history to his advantage enough

[largosama]

Re: Too much tweaking? Too powerful?

 

 

And last but not least... Foxbat as a hunted?!? You know that cornball has the attention span of a lemming...

 

Strangely enough, if actually fits out with the character's history (Foxbat, as I recall, tried to blow up the Empire State Building where the character (his name is Alexander Lyons) had his business. Originally, he had Foxbat showing up even more, but I told him there's just no way he would do that.

[largosama]

Re: Too much tweaking? Too powerful?

 

 

(BTW, I'd drop the Visual FX disad on #3--that would mean he'd be glowing like a torch all the time.)

 

HA! I never thought of that one!!! I've asked the player to look in on this thread and maybe we can all have a discussion. However, I forwarded the portion of the Visual Fx disad to him... never expected his character to turn into the Human Torch!

[Vondy]

Re: Too much tweaking? Too powerful?

 

 

I'm iffy on the skill pool, myself, but I'd probably allow it and then watch its usage very carefully.

 

Well, its not as bad as:

 

Contact: Personal Experiences 14-, Very Useful +2, A Lot of Experiences X2: 14 Points.

[Arkham]

Re: Too much tweaking? Too powerful?

 

I second (third) the 'Not just No, but Hell No'

In addition to the above, it not just breaks, but completely

shatters the rules to have _both_ OIF and OAF on the same

Multipower RESERVE. The OAF should be on the slots only, not

on the Reserve.

[Vondy]

Re: Too much tweaking? Too powerful?

 

I would never allow martial arts maneuvers in a frame-work. I would, however, let them build an MP with powers that were defined as Martial Arts.

[largosama]

Re: Too much tweaking? Too powerful?

 

Assume that I'm ignorant about why the MA Multi-power is powerful. Could you run through a hypothetical combat situation where this is just completely broken?

[incrdbil]

Re: Too much tweaking? Too powerful?

 

Assume that I'm ignorant about why the MA Multi-power is powerful. Could you run through a hypothetical combat situation where this is just completely broken?

 

run it through a points calulation.

 

How many Manuevers does he have, and what has he really paid for them?

 

The only trade off is that he cant do a multiple power style MA attack--and for the massive points savings, thats not much of a loss.

 

If he knows that many moves, he should pay for every one.

[Vondy]

Re: Too much tweaking? Too powerful?

 

Its not so much a combat-imbalance question as it is a limburger design question.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Too much tweaking? Too powerful?

 

Assume that I'm ignorant about why the MA Multi-power is powerful. Could you run through a hypothetical combat situation where this is just completely broken?

To go even more basic...

Martial Arts maneuvers are already one of the things in the HERO system that are phenomenally effective for the point cost. The only counterbalancing factor is the redundancy in point costs for multiple manuvers. Eliminate that by putting MA maneuvers in a framework and you have radically unbalanced the character.

[Guest C--]

Re: Too much tweaking? Too powerful?

 

Assume that I'm ignorant about why the MA Multi-power is powerful. Could you run through a hypothetical combat situation where this is just completely broken?

 

Martial arts are already really cheap. By allowing him to buy them in a Multipower, you're letting him make them even cheaper. Though I'm gonna disagree with the others in one point here, I don't think it's all that broken. See, by placing these in a MP, he can't perform Multiple Power Attacks with his martial arts. Also, after a certain point (a point this particular character has long passed), it becomes inefficient to buy martial art moves the standard way. In other words, there's no reason to buy both Martial Strike and Fast Strike, because you're spending 8 points to get a +2D6 attack with either a +2 OCV or a +2 DCV. It's cheaper to buy Martial Strike, and then +2 OCV with it. Then you spend 8 points to get a +2D6 attack that does both +2 OCV and +2 DCV. So I don't really have a problem with the martial arts MP so much, because he's got like 20 different maneuvers in there, and most of them are repetitive.

 

But, as many have said, it's still very, very efficient. You might want him to rebuild it into something like this:

 

Multipower: 25 points "Mastery of a thousand styles"

3m - "Strike" +25 Str, does not affect figureds, not for lifting

5m - "Accuracy" +5 OCV w/ Hand to Hand

5m - "Dodging" +5 DCV

5m - "Killing attack" 1 1/2 D6 HKA

3m - "Nerve Strike" 2D6 Hand Attack, NND

 

This way, the character can pick and choose any of the bonuses he wants to have, at any time (they're all multi-slots). So he can do a +2 OCV, +1 DCV strike that does +2D6 damage. He gets the effect of the cheesy martial arts multipower, but it's book legal.

[braincraft]

Re: Too much tweaking? Too powerful?

 

You know what might be cool? Martial arts maneuvers bought with the Variable Special Effects advantage.

 

Not that that would probably ever be worth the cost. You'd have to make him immune to Analyze Style or something.

[largosama]

Re: Too much tweaking? Too powerful?

 

Okay, the player and I have been talking and he changed his character. He removed the MP and put it in regular martial maneuvers. He removed some moves to make it work. Isn't he going to be able to do basically the same exact thing but with just a few less moves (he lost HKAs, charging attacks, and takeaway)?

 

3 Weapon Element: Chain & Rope Weapons, Karate Weapons, Staffs

4 Fast Strike: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +0 DCV, 5d6 Strike

5 Offensive Strike: 1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, +1 DCV, 7d6 Strike

3 Takedown: 1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, +1 DCV, 3d6 Strike; Target Falls

4 Martial Block: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +2 DCV, Block, Abort

5 Grappling Block: 1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, +1 DCV, Grab One Limb, Block

4 Martial Dodge: 1/2 Phase, -- OCV, +5 DCV, Dodge, Affects All Attacks, Abort

5 Flying Dodge: 1/2 Phase, -- OCV, +4 DCV, Dodge All Attacks, Abort; FMove

3 Martial Grab: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, -1 DCV, Grab Two Limbs, 25 STR for holding on

4 Martial Escape: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, 30 STR vs. Grabs

4 Reversal: var Phase, -1 OCV, -2 DCV, 30 STR to Escape; Grab Two Limbs

4 Joint Lock/Throw: 1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, +0 DCV, Grab One Limb; 2d6 NND ; Target Falls

3 Grappling Throw: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +2 DCV, 5d6 Strike; Target Falls; Must Follow Grab

3 Sacrifice Throw: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +1 DCV, 3d6 Strike; You Fall, Target Falls

54 Total Martial Arts Cost

[caris]

Re: Too much tweaking? Too powerful?

 

Assume that I'm ignorant about why the MA Multi-power is powerful. Could you run through a hypothetical combat situation where this is just completely broken?

 

It isn't the combat situation that makes it broken. It is the amount of cost savings, not that he did a particualarly good job of it. First of all, the basic cost of a specific manuever is usually a lot cheeper than the skills levels and HA attacks needed to achieve the modifiers would cost the character. This cost reduction is usually assumed to reflect the inherent limitations of it being a martial art style, like the fact that you have to be able to do the equivalent of gestures to use it.

 

If he wants to reflect the ability to do a multitude of different styles. Let him buy a couple manuevers that can not really be mimicked with the basic manuevers like anything with "target falls" or the takeaway manuever, and either let him apply the "Variable Special Effect" advantage to them or let him have it for free. Than have him use the rest of the points he spent on that pool to buy some limited STR (pretty much just the "No Figured Characteristics" Limitation), and 5 and 8 point Combat Skill Levels.

 

Combat Skill Levels and Skill Levels are really a much better way to handle this character in general than a lot of the stuff he has done. I'd also have him drop the skill pool and replace it with a large number of Familiarities, particularly broadly defined Knowledge Skills.

 

I'm also having a problem with him getting 1.5 worth of limitations on his Utility Belt MP reserve, because the MP as a whole is a OIF for the belt and each of the slots is a different OAF. I'd only let him have the 1/2 for OIF on the MP reserve, and than get the -1 for OAF on each slot. (The slot part doesn't really matter, since each slot would still have the same final cost, but if he tries to increase their active points it might.)

 

I'm a little leery of the activation roll on his Grey Market stuff. Does he realize that technically he has to first make a skill roll to just change the slots? Than at the very least everytime he tries to activate one of those powers he has to roll a 15 or less? (I suggest reading activation and how it applies powers like Armor and Flash Defense as well.)

 

Edit to replace a poor word choice.

[rayoman]

Re: Too much tweaking? Too powerful?

 

And last but not least... Foxbat as a hunted?!? You know that cornball has the attention span of a lemming...

 

Why not? I have a guy playing a super-powered version of The Hurricane from WWE. This Hurricane recieved his powers from some radioactive chemical that he got messed up in while wrestling in Japan (I don't have the the character sheet handy so that is short version of his origin). He has the TV celebrity disadvantages and Foxbat is the President of The Hurricane Fan Club. I put this as a Hunted, Watched.

 

I can't wait to run the adventure where The Hurricane meets Foxbat!