Weapons as Perks

[Rob_Knotts]

In working out test chars for Fantasy Hero, I've decided to treat fantasy characters as "Superheroic", where characters have to pay points for anything the average person doesn't have (spells, armour, weapons, riding animals). I'd still like to keep weapons some discrete from characters though, since so many fantasy games encourage the collection of weapons from enemies. I'd also like a more specfic structure for weapons for when it comes to spells that affect what a weapon does and how it does it.

 

My current idea is to set up a framework similar to vehicles/bases/computers with a similar 1:5 point ratio. The basic idea is to describe weapons as having four basic stats: Max DEX, Max SPD, DEF, BODY. Any thing else the weapon can do, particularly attacks, are bought as powers using the weapons points but used as if they belonged to the wielder, i.e. a sword with a HKA would use the wielder's STR to determine total damage. I'd also be using this structure to creat e shields using Missile Deflection and (possibly) skill levels for Block. As an example, a basic broadsword might look like this:

 

DEX 18 (24)

SPD 3 (12)

DEF 8 (8)

BODY 5 (5)

 

HKA(edge): 1&1/2d (25)

HKA(point): 2d, only w/Find Weakness roll (-1/4) (24)

 

Active Cost: 108

Perk Cost: 22

 

I'd be very interested in any constructive comments you might have.

[mvoncannon]

Re: Weapons as Perks

 

To keep your players from grabbing weapons willy-nilly you could just say that you will not allow it. Not the best idea, mind you, but it does work.

 

- OR -

 

Make your power level high, like you did, and say that you can only make your weapons. I have seen this done rather well. The GM said the players had 200 points. 75 were from disads. The rest were used to make *EVERYTHING* the player had, short of clothing and carrying gear. They had to make armor, weapons, Magic, buy skills, etc.... Once you make armor and your weapons then follow with the appropriate skills, you don't have a lot left. Then when the players loose their weapons, they out of those points. It won't keep them from grabbing any weapon, but most players won't spend points for something and not use it.

[Markdoc]

Re: Weapons as Perks

 

Make your power level high' date=' like you did, and say that you can only make your weapons. I have seen this done rather well. The GM said the players had 200 points. 75 were from disads. The rest were used to make *EVERYTHING* the player had, short of clothing and carrying gear. They had to make armor, weapons, Magic, buy skills, etc.... Once you make armor and your weapons then follow with the appropriate skills, you don't have a lot left. Then when the players loose their weapons, they out of those points. It won't keep them from grabbing any weapon, but most players won't spend points for something and not use it.[/quote']

 

This is exactly how we ran our first Fantasy campaigns - it was before Fantasy Hero came out so it made sense to us to do it like Champions.

 

While they were fun games, as a "fantasy simulation" it was a dismal failure and we switched our campaigns to the "free equipment" mode as soon as the idea surfaced. If you wanted an atypical fantasy game where treasure hoards and magical weapons were not the focus, then this could still work.

 

But then, that kind of campaign can work just as well with free equipment.

 

The 1:5 points ratio suggested in the initial post might go some way to offsetting some of the problems we encountered, though, especially if it only applied to "found" equipment, not to stuff players made themselves.

 

Cheers, Mark

[Daermon]

Re: Weapons as Perks

 

Err.... Why not just do a low magic game? You know, where few, if any weapons have any kind of 'magical properties' and are just, well, weapons. That way your players won't be tempted to pick up every weapon they find, because that stone axe the barbarian was wielding five minutes ago will be vastly inferior to the steel broadsword that was just used to kill him.

 

Just a thought.

[The Monster]

Re: Weapons as Perks

 

It does seem kind of odd, making people pay points for mundane weapons. If they can't just pick up a sword from the guard they just KOd, it seems like it would eliminate some standard fantasy bits. I'd suggest that normal weapons be free, but you could make it so that *anyone* can invest their points in their equipment, to make it better - so that warriors who have a personal favorite sword can spend points to make it +1 OCV, or AP, or whatever. Make sure they have a good in-character reason for it, and keep an eye on campaign limits. The idea being that their spirit or something flows into the item. That way, it can be such that, in fact, the sword of their grandfather, who slew a hundred orcs at the Battle of the Western Approaches, actually *is* a better blade because of its former wielder.

 

Now, even this idea can get ugly, since you have to remember that important NPCs will be doing this also, and build accordingly. One way to limit proliferation is to require any "magic" weapon be built from the ground up - if you want a magic sword, you have to pay for the HKA, not just grab a sword and pump two or three points into it for a +1 CV. Given that OAF by itself cuts the price in half, a vehicle-style 1:5 cost is not necessary (now, if they want to have a spirit bound into an item as a Follower, that's a different story).

[mvoncannon]

Re: Weapons as Perks

 

It does seem kind of odd, making people pay points for mundane weapons. If they can't just pick up a sword from the guard they just KOd, it seems like it would eliminate some standard fantasy bits. I'd suggest that normal weapons be free, but you could make it so that *anyone* can invest their points in their equipment, to make it better - so that warriors who have a personal favorite sword can spend points to make it +1 OCV, or AP, or whatever. Make sure they have a good in-character reason for it, and keep an eye on campaign limits. The idea being that their spirit or something flows into the item. That way, it can be such that, in fact, the sword of their grandfather, who slew a hundred orcs at the Battle of the Western Approaches, actually *is* a better blade because of its former wielder.

 

I have used this to some success as well. Ultimatly this will still boil down the arangements you have with your players. Lay your ground rules out first. Most players will help you out on this.

 

Now, even this idea can get ugly, since you have to remember that important NPCs will be doing this also, and build accordingly. One way to limit proliferation is to require any "magic" weapon be built from the ground up - if you want a magic sword, you have to pay for the HKA, not just grab a sword and pump two or three points into it for a +1 CV. Given that OAF by itself cuts the price in half, a vehicle-style 1:5 cost is not necessary (now, if they want to have a spirit bound into an item as a Follower, that's a different story).

 

This is a roleplaying event, in my opinion. The player could invest the points into an existing weapon (has the weapon enchanted), then later on get it upgraded to more damage (actually have an enchanter make it magic).

 

YMMV

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Weapons as Perks

 

When I first saw the title I thought that you were going to require characters to buy perks to be allowed to use particular weapons - such as only a knight could carry a sword and only a yeoman would be allowed access to a long bow. Obviously not.

 

I was interested in the idea of people looting dead bodies for weapons though. If you wanted to charge for points and avoid the looting problem then maybe you want to make the campaign work against looting. My friend and I came up with an anti-cliche campaign where we tried to put in ground rules that would reverse any of the standard fantasy genre stuff.

 

We wanted to stop the looting of bodies etc and so came up with the idea that the possessions of someone who died, unless they were replaced with something of equal value would carry a geas. The person who stole an item would be bound to complete an unfinished task of the dead person. This geas would be more powerful with the value or power of the item.

 

Obviously this would not stop looting but it would make people think more than twice and would potentially lead to interesting campaign twists as well.

 

 

Doc

[Markdoc]

Re: Weapons as Perks

 

It does seem kind of odd, making people pay points for mundane weapons. If they can't just pick up a sword from the guard they just KOd, it seems like it would eliminate some standard fantasy bits. I'd suggest that normal weapons be free, but you could make it so that *anyone* can invest their points in their equipment, to make it better - so that warriors who have a personal favorite sword can spend points to make it +1 OCV, or AP, or whatever. Make sure they have a good in-character reason for it, and keep an eye on campaign limits. The idea being that their spirit or something flows into the item. That way, it can be such that, in fact, the sword of their grandfather, who slew a hundred orcs at the Battle of the Western Approaches, actually *is* a better blade because of its former wielder.

 

Now, even this idea can get ugly, since you have to remember that important NPCs will be doing this also, and build accordingly. One way to limit proliferation is to require any "magic" weapon be built from the ground up - if you want a magic sword, you have to pay for the HKA, not just grab a sword and pump two or three points into it for a +1 CV. Given that OAF by itself cuts the price in half, a vehicle-style 1:5 cost is not necessary (now, if they want to have a spirit bound into an item as a Follower, that's a different story).

 

This IS exactly how I run my game. If you want to make a magic item (or a special item) you pay the ful cost - you can't add on a few points to an lready existing "free" item. However ifthe item itslef is special then you also have the "independant" limitation to make it much cheaper.

 

As for looting, that's an easily solved problem. Players won't loot stuff if what they have is the same. As already noted, why take a guard's weapon when you have one that is as good or better? I ran a two and a half year, once-a-week game (with some standard old-school players yet) where looting and weapons/armor escalation was simply not an issue. That's because there was precisely one magic sword, one magic potion and one "bag of gold coins" treasure in the whole two and half year story arc. Once you get players out of the "kill and loot" mentality then that problem dissolves. By the time (a year into the story) they actually came across the magic sword, they were happy to give it away to their boss, as the whole idea of "character development through looting" had become foreign to the players.

 

cheers, Mark

[Legendsmiths]

Re: Weapons as Perks

 

You could go with the 1/3 points for everything that isn't mundane (armor, weapons, spells, etc). Look at all of the standard classes of gear, make a baseline, and then anything above that costs points.

 

Tools: basic (without which you are -3)

Weapon: 1d6K STR Min 10, 1 Handed (-1 DC per -5 STR on the STR min)

Armor: 3 DEF

Lighting: By size of fire (candle, torch, lamp, campfire)

 

And so on.

 

The story behind the points is it represents an attunement of yourself to the item. Points can be shifted given an appropriate dramatic period (a day of training in a monestary, studying in a wizards tower, etc.).

 

Items/Spells must be built/enchanted as they are and cannot change (without story/GM approval). Found gear can still be used, but requires an activation roll until the points of the item are paid for. The roll is rougly equal to the ratio of points invested to point value of the item.

 

SFX that match the basic items can be enhanced over time and are not fixed. They essentially represent the skill/prowess of the owner.

 

Using this system, armor is not encumbering (unless limited as such), and Weapon Familiarities are generally 2pts for melee and 2pts for missile and 1 pt for thrown killing -- everyone has thrown normal damage and clubs for free (meaning anyone can do a 3d6N club with 10 STR).

 

Item abilities do not stack with the base item's, although those abilities remain (separately). Example: Sir Ima Badguy has a magic sword. He is disarmed. Someone picks it up and they can do 1d6K with it even though it is a 3d6K Goodslayer. Perhaps if they had the points and it was dramatic enough they could attune to it right then, but otherwise it is no better than any other weapon.

 

Multipowers are allowed, but only the reserve is divided by 3 and the multipower must be tied to either a single spell or a single item.

 

Since players only start out with so many points it is unlikely they will have the gear they want when they are epic heroes. Finding loot still has value because otherwise they have to pay an enchanter to craft it.

 

Enchanting then becomes just a different magic skill. You have one for casting spells you know and another for making magic items. Time would be the biggest factor in enchanting, which then equates to money since a mage's time is valuable (like any expert/master of a difficult skill).

 

So, you end up with the benefits of a point based equipment solution while still supporting the loot and pillage model (if you want). This also supports why their are great tomes of magic because spell creation is difficult (no improvisation) yet a mage can with a short amount of study reattune his known spell points to new spells as necessary.

 

Hope this helps.