Partial BoECV?

[stan da ork]

After reading through some of the Mental Power rules, the BoECV advantage, and Telekinesis, I thought of something. When BoECV is applied to TK, it makes the attacker use OECV to target the power, but the defender still uses standard DCV (in theory, although not mentioned, the defender also still uses PD to reduce the damage instead of Mental Defense). Why don't we have an option to apply this version of BoECV to all powers?

 

Specifically, there could be a variant of BoECV along the lines of "Partially Based on ECV." This would modify the advantaged power such that the attacker uses OECV to target the power, but the defender still uses standard DCV. The attack would still get the LOS range effect of BoECV, but would apply normally to whatever defense it usually applies to. I would probably price this at +1/2.

 

I could see this advantage being great for things like Psionic Blasts (a bolt of pure psionic energy that the attacker manifests and shoots at the target), as well as "Mental"-based Transforms that still transform that target's body, not his mind.

 

Comments? Thoughts?

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Partial BoECV?

 

could be good. Does it still only do stun?

[Onyxclaw]

Re: Partial BoECV?

 

you could always toss on "does body" if it didn't

[stan da ork]

Re: Partial BoECV?

 

I would probably be inclined to say that the Power works completely as normal, except for the fact that the character uses OECV to hit, and the power works at LOS. This includes doing BODY damage, if the Power normally does BODY damage.

 

The rational behind this Advantage is basically the same as the rationale behind why TK interacts with BoECV the way it does - the character is mentally manipulating something that must still physically interact with the target to have an effect. Most of the applications for this Advantage that I can come up with are pretty much just uses of Psychokinesis that don't fall under the realm of the actual TK power, such as wrapping a target in metal bars (Entangle) or moving a bunch of loose gravel under a target's feet (DEX Drain or CE). Also, as I mentioned, it would be good for some Tranforms, such as psychokinetically loosening the bonds between molecules in an object to turn it into a puddle of mush, or creating objects from thin air through force of will.

 

Note that I would also propose that this version of BoECV be used for most versions of TK (and thus, Psychokinesis would be cheaper, but see my other thread about that specific issue).

 

Edit: I can also see a rationale (especially based on the above comments) of not granting a Power with this Advantage a range of LOS (again, because it represents a mental manipulation of a physical object). In that case, I would reduce the value of the Advantage to +1/4, since at that point all it does it substitute OECV for OCV (a slight Advantage, since most characters who take the Advantage will have a better OECV than OCV).

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Partial BoECV?

 

Edit: I can also see a rationale (especially based on the above comments) of not granting a Power with this Advantage a range of LOS (again' date=' because it represents a mental manipulation of a physical object). In that case, I would reduce the value of the Advantage to +1/4, since at that point all it does it substitute OECV for OCV (a slight Advantage, since most characters who take the Advantage will have a better OECV than OCV).[/quote']

 

right on, i was going to point out that then you are basically buying LOS with "based on ECV" tacked on. Now i think you are talking

[stan da ork]

Re: Partial BoECV?

 

How about a revision that the range modifier of a Power with this Advantage is based on the range from the physical object involved to the target, much like TK, BoECV? Also, I think the fact that a TK "punch" does not suffer a range modifier can easily be explained in this case because the physical object involved is the air just in front of the target, and thus there is no range modifier. Also, with that modification, would you consider it to be +1/4 or +1/2? I can see it going either way at this point.

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Partial BoECV?

 

ok so if it has range modifier, then i'd say +1/4, because then all you're really doing is swapping for ECV and adding a little extra range which isn't used all that much anyway

[stan da ork]

Re: Partial BoECV?

 

That sounds pretty good to me. So we have:

 

Mental Targetting (+1/4): A Power with this Advantage is targetted using the character's ECV, rather than OCV. In addition, the range modifier for the Power is calculated from any physical object involved to the target, not from the character to the target (in the case of a TK "punch" or similar effect, the "physical object" is the air directly in front of the target). The Power otherwise works normally, including the damage it causes and the defense against it. The Power does not grant the character Mental Awareness, nor does it become invisible, although one of the Sense Groups that it can be sensed by is probably the Mental Sense Group. This Advantage is primarily used to simulate mental manipulation of something that must still physically interact with the target to have an effect.

 

What do you think?

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Partial BoECV?

 

No. The utility of hitting someone based on ECV when the opponent is almost always going to have a decent DCV is not worth it. Add in the visible, uses Range Mods, and other limitations of a Standard power and the utility is not there and worthy of an advantage IMO. Standard +0 is my call.

[Eosin]

Re: Partial BoECV?

 

No. The utility of hitting someone based on ECV when the opponent is almost always going to have a decent DCV is not worth it. Add in the visible' date=' uses Range Mods, and other limitations of a Standard power and the utility is not there and worthy of an advantage IMO. Standard +0 is my call.[/quote']

 

 

+0 is also where it falls in my book. I also believe that the Ultimate Mentalist (4th ED) discusses this and rules it as a +0 or +1/4 depending on relative values of EGO to DEX in your campaign.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Partial BoECV?

 

The attack would still get the LOS range effect of BoECV' date=' but would apply normally to whatever defense it usually applies to. I would probably price this at +1/2.[/quote']

 

This proposed advantage would change the power in two ways, basing OCV on Ego, and changing range to Line of SIght. Line of SIght is already a +1/2 advantage. If you establish switching OCV bases between DEX and EGO is a +0 advantage, you don't need any other new advantages or limitations.

 

The merits of swapping OCV bases has been discussed before, and I agree it's worth either +1/4 (on the basis that any change should carry some cost) or +0 (on the basis that Ego costs the same amount as DEX anyway once you factor out the bump to Speed).

[stan da ork]

Re: Partial BoECV?

 

It doesn't exactly change the Power to LOS. For example, if you used the Power to hurl a rock at an opponent, there would be a range modifier, but it would be calculated from the original location of the rock to the target, not from the attacker to the target.

 

So if we call the OCV -> OECV switch a +0, then the question becomes, "Is this limited form of LOS actually limited enough to reduce the value to +1/4?"

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Partial BoECV?

 

Weird. I never thought of that. But the power is TK and TK is defined as being indirect. Most indirects bought enable you to determine the new starting "hex" of an attack so the advantage has nothing to do with LOS and instead upon the inherent 'indirect-like' effects of TK.

 

Hawksmoor

[Silbeg]

Re: Partial BoECV?

 

+0 is also where it falls in my book. I also believe that the Ultimate Mentalist (4th ED) discusses this and rules it as a +0 or +1/4 depending on relative values of EGO to DEX in your campaign.

 

Really? Hmm... I think I am going to have to haul out that old tome to check it out... granted, there are some play balance issues from that era to this, but not too many.

 

Ties into my comments re: the BOECV Tk discussion

I was thinking that it would be perhaps -¼ less of an advantage than the normal BOECV. Then, adding the -¼ less of an advantage of range penalties apply, you get a +½ advantage. But, given the relative nature of DEX vs EGO, it may still ought to be less.