Vehicle Rams

[AmadanNaBriona]

While this should probably go on 5th edtion rules questions, I thought I might find more interesting results if I posted this question here.

 

I was reading through my recently purchased copy of TUV and saw something I felt was a bit odd. I was then reminded of this when looking at the write up for the Nautilus.

What, exactly is the reasoning and benefit for using Stretching to model a ram on a vehicle? I've done ramming prows and ramplates before, and have aways modeled them as some form of attack power that adds to the damage (Hand to Hand Attack, naked AP disad for movethroughs, etc.) and/or additional defences that only apply to collision damage.

I can't see any advantage to ensuring that you hit an inch before the rest of the vehicle does, unless theres some ruling or handwave that I'm not aware of that states that if something is only hit by the stretched portion then the movethrough-er doesn't take damage, which seems a bit too effective for the price.

I can think of a couple other rather cheesy ways to make the stretching effective (buy the ram as a durable or unbreakable focus, then rule that the focus takes the damage first because its the part thats involved in the impact), but other than that, I can't see what good it could possibly be.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Vehicle Rams

 

While this should probably go on 5th edtion rules questions' date=' I thought I might find more interesting results if I posted this question here.[/quote']

Yeah. As a, "why," question it would likely not be answered at all.

 

It doesn't make much sense to me, either. I usually approach it about like you do: HKA and Linked DEF, or some such thing. I could see using Stretching in similar applications, such as harpoons and grappling hooks, but for ramming it just isn't all that logical a build.

[Alric]

Re: Vehicle Rams

 

My bet is because many rams stick out from the vehicle, contacting the target before the rest of the vehicle hits it. I would rule that the vehicle would still take regular damage from the impact but it would still be a distance away.

 

Important for situations where an explosion might result (some distance will provide a little protection) or in a case where the vehicle might not be able to safely reach the object to be ramed. Like the LAPDs armored car with the long ram on the front so it can knock down doors without risking falling through a floor into the basement.

 

For ram-plate type things, like the cattle grills on the front of locomotives or just extra-strong construction, I would just use extra DEF on the side the plate is on with possibly only using the defense vs movethrough damage.

 

Hmmmm... Another thought. Wouldn't stretching mean that the vehicle could ram without having to make a move-through?

[prestidigitator]

Re: Vehicle Rams

 

My bet is because many rams stick out from the vehicle' date=' contacting the target before the rest of the vehicle hits it. I would rule that the vehicle would still take regular damage from the impact but it would still be a distance away.[/quote']

Like HTH distance for a vehicle with that much Growth/Size?

 

Hmmmm... Another thought. Wouldn't stretching mean that the vehicle could ram without having to make a move-through?

I don't see that you'd have to do a Move Through anyway. However, it could give you that extra damage, and it certainly fits dramatic/common sense.

[cutsleeve]

Re: Vehicle Rams

 

Actually i always modeled ram prows,cattle catchers, and such as defences just for decreasing damage done by move thrus. With maybe a little added damage if it was built for causing extra damage like old ship rams that where jagged. Other then that a ram attachment really just keeps the vehical from sustaining direct damage from the ramming.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Vehicle Rams

 

I wouldn't even bother with the Stretching. It states in TUV that, for size, you can base either the mass or the height/width on the Size and choose the other. With that, one inch of Stretching is meaningless.

[Fox1]

Re: Vehicle Rams

 

If one was running a campaign set during the period of spar torpedos and we had a good set of component/compartment damage rules for vehicles, stretching would have a real use.

[AlHazred]

Re: Vehicle Rams

 

When I did the Nautilus writeup, I based the submarine's Spur power on the Bronze Ram from the Trireme in TUV. I briefly toyed with making it a HKA or HA, but that would make the attack too powerful. It's described as punching a 2-meter diameter hole two-and-a-half meters below the waterline of Scotia. Assuming the Scotia had standard ironclad-level defenses, they should be somewhat less than the modern naval vessels in TUV.

 

My writeup of the Nautilus has a STR of 85, consistent with its Size of 32" long by 16" wide. It's maximum Combat movement rate is 22". By doing a Move-Through, it does a total of 24d6 damage. If we call it a Move-By, then the ship does 12-1/2d6 damage. Personally, I call it a Move-By maneuver since the ship continues on after holing its enemies (picture it as ripping a slice out of the bottom of the ships it hits). 12-1/2d6 is enough to "damage" most of the ships in the book, but not enough to "destroy" them (i.e., it doesn't do enough damage to do twice the vehicle's BODY). Which is what I was after.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Vehicle Rams

 

When I did the Nautilus writeup' date=' I based the submarine's [i']Spur[/i] power on the Bronze Ram from the Trireme in TUV. I briefly toyed with making it a HKA or HA, but that would make the attack too powerful. It's described as punching a 2-meter diameter hole two-and-a-half meters below the waterline of Scotia. Assuming the Scotia had standard ironclad-level defenses, they should be somewhat less than the modern naval vessels in TUV.

 

My writeup of the Nautilus has a STR of 85, consistent with its Size of 32" long by 16" wide. It's maximum Combat movement rate is 22". By doing a Move-Through, it does a total of 24d6 damage. If we call it a Move-By, then the ship does 12-1/2d6 damage. Personally, I call it a Move-By maneuver since the ship continues on after holing its enemies (picture it as ripping a slice out of the bottom of the ships it hits). 12-1/2d6 is enough to "damage" most of the ships in the book, but not enough to "destroy" them (i.e., it doesn't do enough damage to do twice the vehicle's BODY). Which is what I was after.

 

I'm pretty sure I already repped you for your 20,000 Leagues write ups, which gives you an idea of how much I liked your work. The Stretching ram still confuzzles me tho... I figured you'd taken it straight from TUV as well.

I agree that the Nautilus's main attack is probably more of a moveby than a movethrough. Rather than building it with any extra dice, I'd be inclined to go with additional def to represent the reinforced superstructure. In my case I'd probably give it AP on STR, only for movebys and movethroughs, as this'd increase the fear and loathing factor without increasing the dice... simply would mean a higher percentage of the body would get through. IIRC, the Nautilus should be able to go through a whaler or passenger liner like a hot knife through butter, while being dangerous to an ironclad even if not immediately lethal.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Vehicle Rams

 

My writeup of the Nautilus has a STR of 85, consistent with its Size of 32" long by 16" wide. It's maximum Combat movement rate is 22". By doing a Move-Through, it does a total of 24d6 damage. If we call it a Move-By, then the ship does 12-1/2d6 damage. Personally, I call it a Move-By maneuver since the ship continues on after holing its enemies (picture it as ripping a slice out of the bottom of the ships it hits). 12-1/2d6 is enough to "damage" most of the ships in the book, but not enough to "destroy" them (i.e., it doesn't do enough damage to do twice the vehicle's BODY). Which is what I was after.

 

IDHMBIFOM, but isn't a vehicle badly damaged enough to be nonfunctional at 0 BODY, and reduced to scrap at -1x?

 

At any rate, didn't someone post something on the other vehicle rules thread about using the bleeding rules to represent a boat taking on water after being damaged?