Hierax Posted July 29, 2003 Report Share Posted July 29, 2003 Old Files Until New Ones Ready? Shrike, Did you want me to put up the old AD&D to 4th ed. files up until you get the 3e/d20 to 5th ed. versions done? Or should I just keep uploading the 5th ed. updated files as you send them? Lemme know... Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Worldmaker Posted July 29, 2003 Report Share Posted July 29, 2003 Hey, Shrike... for priests, what limitations are you going to put on the pools? I mean, the "Divine Magic Only" and Focus: Holy Symbol limits are obvious... but should there be others? I'm hesitant to add "Only When it Suits Deity's Purposes". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 29, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2003 Re: Old Files Until New Ones Ready? Originally posted by Hierax Shrike, Did you want me to put up the old AD&D to 4th ed. files up until you get the 3e/d20 to 5th ed. versions done? Or should I just keep uploading the 5th ed. updated files as you send them? Lemme know... Jason ERm, you meant the edited 4th Ed ones? So far the 3 that I sent were just the old pages edited to remove most of the graphix (to take up less space & bandwidth), add in some things that we did in game but I never got around to adding into the document, and update the look abit. Most of the rest of it should be fine, but I wanted to edit the wizards, psionicist, and priests sections a bit because as you might imagine thats were most of the in-game tweaking took place. Ill get around to it soon -- I should have done some of that this past weekend but I got distracted and did the Enforcers Inc bit instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 29, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2003 Originally posted by Worldmaker Hey, Shrike... for priests, what limitations are you going to put on the pools? I mean, the "Divine Magic Only" and Focus: Holy Symbol limits are obvious... but should there be others? I'm hesitant to add "Only When it Suits Deity's Purposes". Ill certainly put some kind of "Must abide by tenants of Religion" restriction in there; I need to get the Priests spell casting cheaper than the wizards bcs priests have to buy many other things as well. IMO Priests are the most advantaged class in D&D 3e, and its going to be a challenge to shoehorn them into the same points as every other class.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Worldmaker Posted July 30, 2003 Report Share Posted July 30, 2003 Originally posted by Killer Shrike Ill certainly put some kind of "Must abide by tenants of Religion" restriction in there; I need to get the Priests spell casting cheaper than the wizards bcs priests have to buy many other things as well. IMO Priests are the most advantaged class in D&D 3e, and its going to be a challenge to shoehorn them into the same points as every other class.... My only problem is that "Must Abide By Tenants of Religion or Lose Spellcasting" feels more like a Physical Limitation than any thing else. I think I'm going to be making "Incantations" mandatory on all Divine Magic spells (as it wasn't on Arcane Magic) in that a prayer is necessary to cast the spell. As for the other powers, since the priests in my gameworld are more heavily individualized (more like they were under 2nd Edition D&D), I've been giving serious thought to creating a package deal for each individual priesthood., thus cutting some of the cost out right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 30, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2003 Originally posted by Worldmaker My only problem is that "Must Abide By Tenants of Religion or Lose Spellcasting" feels more like a Physical Limitation than any thing else. I think I'm going to be making "Incantations" mandatory on all Divine Magic spells (as it wasn't on Arcane Magic) in that a prayer is necessary to cast the spell. I was thinking more along the lines of treating it as a "when usable" limitation on the Control Cost bcs it limits their use of the framework. Taking it as a PhysLim on the character doesnt really address this IMO and doesnt really do anything about the actual cost of the abilities. As far as requiring Incantations, I would avoid this bcs prayer can be silent. I intend to go the same route as with the wizards CC lims and use a variable lim instead. This is premature, but heres a rough prototype for a Priest CC set up: Priest Control Cost: Only Divine Magic (-1/2) May Only Change Granted Abilities {Spells} with Meditation (-1/2) All Granted Abilities Must Have 1 Charge (-1/4) Only usable while in good standing with Faith (-1/4) Variable Limitation (-1/2; each spell must take -1 of limitations from Focus (Holy Symbol), Extra Time, Concentration, Incantation, Gesture, or Limited Range in any combination at a MINIMUM) Cost per Granted Ability Level (15 Pool) = 17 Real total That only shaves off 1 point from the Wizard cost per Spell Level, but unfortunately unless I can come up with another -4 in limitations to shave 1 more point off ( not going to happen in other words), thats as cheap as its going to get. Originally posted by Worldmaker As for the other powers, since the priests in my gameworld are more heavily individualized (more like they were under 2nd Edition D&D), I've been giving serious thought to creating a package deal for each individual priesthood., thus cutting some of the cost out right there. We seem to think alike. I did a couple dozen Package Deals for each Priesthood and "Paladin" (Dedicated Warriors as I called them) complete with progression paths back in the day and will update them forward into FRED terms at some point as I work my way thru the conversion. However, now that there is no package bonus, it doesnt really make the character cheaper. The new package deals are purely organizational; they just group things into a module to be snapped onto a character. My conversion will treat each class and prestige class as a Package Deal, and the progression model I intend to use ups the "Max Disadvantages" limit at various "character levels" to basically allow what youre talking about, offsetting character points with extra disadvantages. To help pay for all the swag priests get in 3e, Im niminally planning to set up a progressive series of package deals for each faith, with increasing abilities counterbalanced by increased responsibilities and whatnot. Thus as a priest progresses thru the ranks of his church or is singled out for greater things by his/her diety (ie, the player opts to spend points progressing the priest aspect of the character rather than branching out into combat ability or secular skills), they may take another package deal bundling some appropriate abilities and disadvantage specific to their particular religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 30, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2003 Re: Old Files Until New Ones Ready? Originally posted by Hierax Shrike, Did you want me to put up the old AD&D to 4th ed. files up until you get the 3e/d20 to 5th ed. versions done? Or should I just keep uploading the 5th ed. updated files as you send them? Lemme know... Jason By the way, in your credits & links page you have a link to the old site; after I let the URL lapse apparantly some porno peddler bought it for some reason that I cant figure out . You may want to kill that link..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hierax Posted July 30, 2003 Report Share Posted July 30, 2003 Links for other xD&D to HERO Conversions Done! Shrike Smut link eliminated. Thanks for letting me know. A lot of old pages have either moved or are defunct. Now, I've really gotta update the links page! Does anybody got an up-to-date list of Fantasy Hero links? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Worldmaker Posted August 2, 2003 Report Share Posted August 2, 2003 Originally posted by Killer Shrike Priest Control Cost: Only Divine Magic (-1/2) May Only Change Granted Abilities {Spells} with Meditation (-1/2) All Granted Abilities Must Have 1 Charge (-1/4) Only usable while in good standing with Faith (-1/4) Variable Limitation (-1/2; each spell must take -1 of limitations from Focus (Holy Symbol), Extra Time, Concentration, Incantation, Gesture, or Limited Range in any combination at a MINIMUM) Cost per Granted Ability Level (15 Pool) = 17 Real total That's not bad. A rough of what I was going to use would be: Priest Control Cost: Only Divine Magic (-1/2) 8 Charges Per Day On the POOL, not the SPELLS (-1/2) Must Pray and Meditate for One Hour to Gain the Day’s Charges (-1/2) Variable Limitation (-1/2; each spell must take -1 of limitations from Focus (Holy Symbol), Extra Time, Concentration, Incantation, Gesture, or Limited Range in any combination at a minimum) Only usable while in good standing with Faith (-1/4) Real Cost per 15 points in the Pool: 17 Points What do you think? We seem to think alike. I did a couple dozen Package Deals for each Priesthood and "Paladin" (Dedicated Warriors as I called them) complete with progression paths back in the day and will update them forward into FRED terms at some point as I work my way thru the conversion. However, now that there is no package bonus, it doesnt really make the character cheaper. The new package deals are purely organizational; they just group things into a module to be snapped onto a character. You can always use the package bonus anyway. Its what I do. I'd love to see some of your package ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherSkip Posted August 2, 2003 Report Share Posted August 2, 2003 And my own favorite addendum to the package deal suggestion is to create your own skill Enhancer to replace the "package Deal". just as scholar can reduce the cost of KS's, so Would Skill enhancer Druid reduce the cost of Druidic skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MadKestrel Posted August 3, 2003 Report Share Posted August 3, 2003 Arcan Magic VPP Spellcasting refers to the use of Power Constructs via a Magic Variable Power Pool (VPP). Various types of Spellcasters have VPPs with differing modifiers applied to the Control Cost to represent that type of Spellcasters' style of Magic. Wow! You done a phenomenal and impressive amount of work here. Excellent job! I found a write-up some years back using a previous version of FH that used the VPP -- to simulate a previous version of AD&D, IIRC. I don't have it backed up anywhere that I can find, but I'd printed it out and I still have that. I'd hoped that a similar system would be included in the new version of FH, but I'm still very happy to find it here. I've got your version printing currently and will be reading it in detail today. AND, I'll happily use many of the spells you've so graciously converted. Thanks again for all of your hard work. MadKestrel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Worldmaker Posted August 3, 2003 Report Share Posted August 3, 2003 Hey, Shrike... I've started converting some of the more obscure (read "Not in the PHB") spells found in the Wizards Spell Compendiums and Priest's Spell Compendiums. I'll post them as I go, if you want. I paid near to $200 for those books, right before they (WotC) made their first 3rd Edition announcements. I'll be damned if I'm not going to get some use out of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dr.Unpossible Posted August 3, 2003 Report Share Posted August 3, 2003 Thank you for all the hard work you have put into the project Killershrike. I really appreciate it. Looking foward to printing out and making use of your work. P.S. How are you Hierax. This is Thuffer Mudfoot from the Greytalk list. I've been missing in action from Greyhawk since I moved to Edmonton this year. How is the Island life? I am experiencing WestCoastWithdrawl! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted August 3, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2003 Originally posted by Worldmaker That's not bad. A rough of what I was going to use would be: Priest Control Cost: Only Divine Magic (-1/2) 8 Charges Per Day On the POOL, not the SPELLS (-1/2) Must Pray and Meditate for One Hour to Gain the Day’s Charges (-1/2) Variable Limitation (-1/2; each spell must take -1 of limitations from Focus (Holy Symbol), Extra Time, Concentration, Incantation, Gesture, or Limited Range in any combination at a minimum) Only usable while in good standing with Faith (-1/4) Real Cost per 15 points in the Pool: 17 Points What do you think? Kind of curious about the 8 charges on the Pool. Do you mean they can only cast 8 spells per day? You can always use the package bonus anyway. Its what I do. I'd love to see some of your package ideas. I dunno. I kind of agree with thier removal. I used them when they were part of the system but they were fairly arbitrary. I prefer the idea of custom Skill Enhancers myself, but unfortunately its a little harder to apply using Hero Designer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted August 3, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2003 Here is a zip file containing a bunch of old 4th Edition package deals. They contain some errors, and some were corrected during play but I never got around to editing the files They would be completely redone for the 5th edition conversion Im working on now. For starters, under my old system Priests paid for each "Sphere" of access by Major or Minor. That entire concept has been removed from D&D 3e as such, so it wont have any relevance in the 3e->FRED conversion. Also, I used to approximate Saving Throws via Mental & Power Def on Activation rolls. With the the altered saves of D&D 3e that goes out the window too. And of course the spellcasting process also being changed in this conversion. So in short, they have no relevance to the current conversion, but the special diety specific "kewl abilities" will likely see some incarnation as I move forward on this...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted August 3, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2003 Re: Arcan Magic VPP Originally posted by MadKestrel Spellcasting refers to the use of Power Constructs via a Magic Variable Power Pool (VPP). Various types of Spellcasters have VPPs with differing modifiers applied to the Control Cost to represent that type of Spellcasters' style of Magic. Wow! You done a phenomenal and impressive amount of work here. Excellent job! I found a write-up some years back using a previous version of FH that used the VPP -- to simulate a previous version of AD&D, IIRC. I don't have it backed up anywhere that I can find, but I'd printed it out and I still have that. I'd hoped that a similar system would be included in the new version of FH, but I'm still very happy to find it here. I've got your version printing currently and will be reading it in detail today. AND, I'll happily use many of the spells you've so graciously converted. Thanks again for all of your hard work. MadKestrel Thanx for the kind words! That old conversion you refer to may well have been my old AD&D 2e -> HERO 4th conversion. However, there were a number of conversions by different people, so it also may not have been Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted August 3, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2003 Originally posted by Worldmaker Hey, Shrike... I've started converting some of the more obscure (read "Not in the PHB") spells found in the Wizards Spell Compendiums and Priest's Spell Compendiums. I'll post them as I go, if you want. I paid near to $200 for those books, right before they (WotC) made their first 3rd Edition announcements. I'll be damned if I'm not going to get some use out of them. Using the rules I laid out in the first post? Kewl. Let em rip. More content is always for the better. As it happens, I also have all 4 Wizard Spell Compendiums and Encyclopedia Magica. I didnt get the Priest Compendiums bcs I never liked adding Priest spells to the game. (Wow! Suddenly every priest with a particular sphere suddenly realizes they've got this whole new ability to call upon ). But then Ive never liked how Divine magic has been handled as "spell casting" with "spells" rather than allowing them to simply call upon the will of thier diety to do appropriate things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted August 3, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2003 Originally posted by Dr.Unpossible Thank you for all the hard work you have put into the project Killershrike. I really appreciate it. Looking foward to printing out and making use of your work. Kewl. Any friend of Jason's/Hierax is a friend of mine Everyone should feel free to use and abuse any of this stuff, and also feel free to contribute content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Worldmaker Posted August 4, 2003 Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 Originally posted by Killer Shrike Kind of curious about the 8 charges on the Pool. Do you mean they can only cast 8 spells per day? Its an expandable limit. As the character gets more powerful (read "gains experience") he can buy larger and larger numbers of charges until I finally say "Go ahead and remove the limit altogether". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted August 30, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2003 Got the Magic Systems pretty much wrapped up: http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/Magic.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Keneton Posted September 2, 2003 Report Share Posted September 2, 2003 Killer shrike, youve done agreat job here. That is a lot of work and I am proudly stunned! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted September 2, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2003 Originally posted by Keneton Killer shrike, youve done agreat job here. That is a lot of work and I am proudly stunned! Thanx!. Its a work in progress of course, but I hope to have the entire thing in a usable state before the month is out. Im making updates just about everyday and making good progress Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badger3k Posted September 3, 2003 Report Share Posted September 3, 2003 That's a LOT to read - I like most of what I've seen so far, so let me add my good work! to the rest. I had started some before I bought 3e (picked up all the 2e priests and wizard compediums and magic items too) - I used the minimum caster level to determine the spells effect for conversion, tho. Had an idea, but I don't think it's cost effective (haven't sat down and worked it out yet) - what about charges on the VPP. It would probably mean having multiple VPPs (1 for 0 level, 1 for 1st, etc), and each would have a number of uses of the pool per day (i.e. wizards would max at 4, sorcerers 6, etc). That would change the whole structure of your system, though. Any thoughts on the idea? I like using the spells that the hordes of d20/3e companies put out (own many many books myself), and although I really don't like the spell system, I thought of using something similar for FH to ease the transition of my 3e players to it. Once they were used to the system I could change things around of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted September 3, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2003 Im looking at doing something along those lines for a variant Sorceror when I get to the 3e Conversion -- but with Multipowers however. The big downside is that it isnt cost effective, but Ive come up with a model that is pretty comparable real points wise to doing the same thing using the Default Magic System Ive laid out on my website. However, b4 I get to 3e and Sorcerors, Im going to finish up the 2e material first. If I dont wrap it up now, Ill likely never come back to it..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted October 13, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2003 Got a lot of Arcane Spells posted here; over 200 so far: http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/Powers/Spells/Spells.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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