Killer Shrike Posted May 29, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2003 Ok, Im halfway done with 5th level, and have posted them. The Shadow spells are looming on the event horizon..... Anyhoo; is anyone getting any use out of this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackCobra Posted May 30, 2003 Report Share Posted May 30, 2003 Yes, yes, yes! It's giving me ideas for doing my own magic system for a non-D&D thing I may be running in the future. It's also making me think I could take my Epic-level campaign and convert it to Hero. Assuming the players didn't push me down the stairs for even suggesting it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted June 6, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 GAH. Im going through the FH Playtest doc, and Im seeing bits I want to go back and incorporate into this, but cant. Tantalus Modern Day.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 Finally got around to finishing 5th level. Hooray! Wall of Force is hard to do in HEROs; its clearly much more powerful than most other 5th level spells. Similar to Magic Missile, where I did a 5th level superior version, Ill prolly do an upgraded superior Wall of Force at 9th Level . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 0 lvl hdc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 1st lvl hdc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 2nd lvl hdc (place holder) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 3rd lvl hdc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 4th lvl hdc (place holder) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 5th lvl hdc 08-05-2003 at 02:23 AM: Finally got around to correcting the HD v2 created Continuing Charge Error Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 6th lvl hdc (place holder) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 7th lvl hdc (place holder) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 8th lvl hdc (place holder) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 9th lvl hdc (place holder) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlHazred Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 Nice job so far! I wouldn't worry too much about incorporating all of the Fantasy Hero bit in there. The Playtest Manuscript is just full of goodies that all of us are going to have to start new games to use... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 Originally posted by AlHazred Nice job so far! I wouldn't worry too much about incorporating all of the Fantasy Hero bit in there. The Playtest Manuscript is just full of goodies that all of us are going to have to start new games to use... Thanx! As far as FH is concerned, the main things I was eyeballing for the "default" D&D-esque magic system were some of the new advantages like Ritual and Window of Opportunity. And neither of those is necessary for any of the existing 3e spells, its just something Id like to add as additional material. Its all good though -- FH will soon be out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitz Posted July 5, 2003 Report Share Posted July 5, 2003 Just checking that I'm seeing what mozilla thinks I'm seeing: I've grabbed the files you've posted here, and the L2 spells appear to be a duplicate of the L1 file, L4 is actually a duplicate of L3, and L6-9 are all duplicates of the L5 hdc.zip Is that right, or is mozilla hallucinating? Excellent work so far, by the way. This will save me a hell of a lot of work -- thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlHazred Posted July 5, 2003 Report Share Posted July 5, 2003 That's why they're listed as "(placeholder)". So that, say, the posts don't become "lost" as the number of pages jumps and people post additional comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 5, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2003 Thanx for the kind words. A word of warning; due to a bug in the HD v2 alpha version (which I am testing), some of the spells which are supposed to be on Constant Charges are not correctly depicted. The "Constant" part of thier charge gets dropped. As soon as Dan fixes the bug Ill go back and fix them. As far as the even leveled spells and the 6-9 lvls being copies -- thats bcs they are I put them in as placeholders as AlHazred notes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPMiller Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 Wow! KS, you are awesome. I am going to put your hard work to good use! I have been trying to get my players to get out of d20 and go to the Hero System, and I think this will be the mechanism that I can show them. THANKS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 8, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 Originally posted by Durnin Wow! KS, you are awesome. I am going to put your hard work to good use! I have been trying to get my players to get out of d20 and go to the Hero System, and I think this will be the mechanism that I can show them. THANKS! Thanx for the kind words. Ive been slowly slogging my way thru it, but things keep getting in the way. The plan is to have a full blown conversion as comprehensive as my old AD&D 2nd Edition to HERO System (4th) Conversion. The Magic System is presenting the biggest challenge because Im completely revamping it from the way I used to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 This looks really good. Do you have a conversion for the base system as well, or are you winging that part? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 8, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 Originally posted by D-Man This looks really good. Do you have a conversion for the base system as well, or are you winging that part? I have a working version of the base conversion which was posted in a different thread and has since been bumped way down. Ill go dig for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 Originally posted by Killer Shrike I have a working version of the base conversion which was posted in a different thread and has since been bumped way down. Ill go dig for it. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 9, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2003 Originally posted by D-Man Thanks. http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4562&perpage=20&pagenumber=2 Heres a thread where I made some suggestions to another player. There was another more complete one, but I cant seem to find it. Personally, I like to start "1st level" at 50 base and up to 75 points of Disadvantages (125) to capture that 1st level suck factor, and for my 3e to FRED conversion Im working on Im considering equating "levels" to +20/+15 points even/odd. Thus a 2nd level character has 125+20 = 145 points, and a 7th level character would have 125+20+15+20+15+20+15 = 230 points. By this method an 8th level Wizard/Fighter/whatever is the equivalent to a Low-powered Superhero and a 14th level character is roughly equivalent to a Standard Superhero. To deal with multiclassing, Im considering increasing the Disadvantage limit for a character by 15 points at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th levels so long as they are in Package deals. That would allow a 20th level character to be from between 460 to 535 points if heavily Disadvantaged, which is really powerful. The key thing to remember is that the the leveling chart is only really relevant for a) Converting material into HEROs, as a rough measuring stick to compare between the two systems, c) for spell casters that want to perpetuate the X per Caster Level/shtick in some of thier spells, and d) for defining checks & balances designed to maintain the D&D feel (like puting a Limitation on a magic item "must be at least 10th level to use -1/4), etc. Level to Character Points Chart3e HERO Max Disadvantage Cap 1st 125 - 2nd 145 - 3rd 160 - 4th 180 90 5th 195 - 6th 215 - 7th 230 - 8th 250 105 9th 265 - 10th 285 - 11th 300 - 12th 320 120 13th 335 - 14th 355 - 15th 370 - 16th 390 135 17th 405 - 18th 425 - 19th 440 - 20th 460 150 Basically 3e Stats map directly to HERO Primarys, with the exception of body and comliness. 3e HERO STR STR DEX DEX CON CON INT INT WIS EGO CHA PRE Discretionary COM Calculate Figured Characteristics normally, and flavor to taste Since HPs are a class feature and not a characteristic in D&D, and BODY is a characteristic (which is bought up, not freely aggregated), there is not an exact correlation between HP and BODY. Also, some of the function of HP is covered by STUN in HEROs. In the past (2e -> 4e) (HP/10) + 8 = BODY worked out pretty well, but isnt so good for (3e-> to 5e) due to scaling differences in D&D (previously HP capped out at around mid level, now it continues to aggregate each level). You can see the problem in the below example. Old school Method: (HP/10) + 8, rounding in the character's favor at each step as normal (.5 thru .9 = a full point). This has the side effect of erasing some of the impact of "bad rolling" or "good rolling" that has occured for a given character as they leveled, but reflects the impact of hp differences at lower levels. Thus a starting Wizard without a CON bonus has 8 BODY, like any average person, but a starting Barbarian has 9 BODY without a CON bonus and could have 10 BODY with a CON bonus or the Toughness feat, etc. The downside to this method is that at higher levels characters have way more hit points than they used to. Thus a reasonably tough 20th level Fighter with a CON bounes of +3 might have around 175 hp with decent rolling; by this formula he would have 18 + 8 = 26 BODY. Ive bounced around between several ideas on how to handle this. The 3 most promising at this time follow: Option 1: Adjusted scale conversion: HP BODY 1-4 8 5-10 9 11-17 10 18-25 11 26-34 12 35-44 13 45-55 14 56-67 15 68-80 16 81-94 17 95-109 18 110-125 19 126-142 20 143-160 21 161-179 22 180-199 23 200-220 24 221-242 25 243-265 26 266-289 27 290-314 28 315-340 29 341-367 30 368-395 31 396-424 32 425-454 33 455-485 34 486-517 35 518-550 36 551-584 37 585-619 38 620-655 39 656-692 40 etc etc On the plus side, this accelerates the scaling and the low end and slows down the scaling at the higher end. On the down side, I hate charts; I prefer formulas as they are much more consistent, fair, and easy to remember. However, when doing conversions charts are often the way to go, so there it is. Option 2: Composite Conversion: 3e hit points are as much 'managing to not get seriously injured' as they are 'absorb actual damage'. The text is very clear on this in the PHB. Combat Luck is perhaps the best/most straight forward built-in way to do this in the HERO System. It does have the corrolary of stacking with real armor and contributing to "TANK WARS", but if access to it is controlled, it shouldnt get too far out of hand. The main problem with Combat Luck in a Fantasy game is that normal armor caps out around 8 DEF, but 18 character pts will buy a character 9 PD/ 9 ED of Hardend & Resistant Combat Luck, making Armor a needless inconvenience. Canny players will try to exploit this, particularly those wanting to play a swashbuckler type character. This is fine and well for many campaigns, but to maintain the D&D feel I would suggest that this be locked down, limiting the number of levels of Combat Luck a character can have. If we incorporate this into the HP conversion process and restrict Combat Luck to only being available as part of the BODY Conversion process and as a class feature, it takes care of itself like so: BODY = (HP/15) + 8 Hit Die Combat Luck Rate d4 5th,9th,13th,17th A character doesnt have to take Combat Luck, and does not have to take it when indicated on the chart; thus when converting over a 15th level Barbarian (d12), a player has the option to take up to 4 levels of Combat Luck but does not have to if they would rather spend thier points elsewhere; if the player chose to only take 3 levels of Combat Luck when converting, but later earned more experience in the HERO System, they could then purchase a 4th level of Combat Luck if they chose to. The downside to this method is that it becomes difficult to determine for some Multiclass characters. To handle such characters I recommend simply counting the number of levels at each hit die and comparing them seperately to determine the rate a character may pick up Combat Luck. Thus a 6th level Sorceror (d4)/ 2nd level Barbarian (d12)/ 3rd level Wizard (d4) would have 9 levels at d4 allowing them 2 levels of Combat Luck, and 2 levels at d12 allowing them 1 level of Combat Luck. Thus, the character could have a maximum of 3 levels of Combat Luck. Option 3: BODY & STUN Conversion: Since Hit Points in D&D serves a function that is split into BODY & STUN in the HERO System, it makes a certain amount of sense to consider STUN when converting a D&D character into the HERO System. One thing to remember is that each point of BODY equals 1 point of STUN, so to some extent it is taken to account even if STUN is not considered seperately from any HP to BODY conversion. However, it could be argued that in D&D most of a characters Hit Points are really STUN, with only the last 5% of Hit Points or so truly indicating BODY equivalent damage. To reflect this, use the following conversion formula: BODY = (Hit Points/20) + 8 STUN = Figured Normally STUN Bonus = (Hit Points/20) As a general rule, I consider D&D to be "Very High Fantasy", and ran my AD&D to HERO System Conversion using superheroic options (no hit locations, knockback on, superheroic END and Pushing rules, etc) and intend to continue doing so with the 3e -> 5e conversion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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