Average Human Running Speed and What is Sprinting

[Grail Quest]

(1) A quick Google came up with the average human walking speed to be 1.3 meters per second. I was thinking of making this the new basic movement, so people in the game world would have 4" of Running instead of 6".

However, is the average human walking speed a Combat speed or Non-Combat Speed (which would base base Running 2"x2).

 

(2) If I want to let sprinting max out at 10 meters per second, which is a hair under what world-class sprinters are doing nowadays, what sort of stats should I be using as a benchmark?

 

(a) Are sprinters SPD 2 or should they be SPD 3-4? After all, being able to run faster doesn't mean you think/do everything else faster.

 

( Is sprinting more inches of movement, or a higher NCM multiplier, and making the use of an NCM multiplier cost END?

 

At 4"x4 Running and SPD 4, a character is approximately running 10 m/s. But if he Pushes, he'll be way beyond world-class.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Average Human Running Speed and What is Sprinting

 

Interestingly enough the basic stats work reasonably well. SPD 3/10" and SPD 4/8" are both about 10 metres per second (ignoring the possibility of pushing)

 

Have a speed calculator:

[Vorsch]

Re: Average Human Running Speed and What is Sprinting

 

The rules dont cater for this kind of real world comparison.

 

as it stands a spd 2 normal ( thats you and me ) could run the hundred in 25seconds.

 

A Spd 4 10" running sprinter would take about 7.5 seconds.

 

both of these human values are not consistant with reality, the rules are for hex movement on maps and bear no real relation to reality.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Average Human Running Speed and What is Sprinting

 

Didn't work...try this....let me know if it works as I've done it a weird way

[Sean Waters]

Re: Average Human Running Speed and What is Sprinting

 

...again....

[Bloodstone]

Re: Average Human Running Speed and What is Sprinting

 

Sean's didn't work for me, so hopefully this will upload properly.

 

For the record, I didn't make this, I just DL'ed it off these very boards way back when. I don't remember who the origional author was

 

[ATTACH]18356[/ATTACH]

[Sean Waters]

Re: Average Human Running Speed and What is Sprinting

 

Damn technology: try this

[prestidigitator]

Re: Average Human Running Speed and What is Sprinting

 

I believe at one point I took tha maximum possible speed for a, "normal" (i.e. 10" Running, 4 Speed, x2 NCM) and compared the speed to calculated average speeds for maximum known records (that I could find on the WWW) for various sprint times, and they came out pretty close. The character was a bit faster, but not horribly so (we're talking a few m/s, not like 10m/s).

 

What the system definitely does not do is place any sort of limits on how long a character can sprint.

 

BTW, normals should never (or almost never) be able to Push. See the Pushing rules in 5E or 5ER.

 

Oh, and Combat Speed is definitely faster than your average walk. Non-Comat Speed is moving as fast as a character normally can, so you can equate it with a sprint (for most characters you could even thus fit Combat Speed in at half the speed of a sprint, which is undoubtedly going to be faster than what we think of as a, "walk," even though it might be more like a, "power walk," if the character's feet never both leave the ground).

[Grail Quest]

Re: Average Human Running Speed and What is Sprinting

 

Damn technology: try this

 

The spreadsheet shows 6"x2 at SPD 2 = 10 m/s

 

Manual calculation shows

6" x 2 m/" x 2 NCM x SPD 2 / 12 = 4 m/s

 

Or do I have to lay off the decaf and wake up here?

[Grail Quest]

Re: Average Human Running Speed and What is Sprinting

 

I believe at one point I took tha maximum possible speed for a, "normal" (i.e. 10" Running, 4 Speed, x2 NCM) and compared the speed to calculated average speeds for maximum known records (that I could find on the WWW) for various sprint times, and they came out pretty close. The character was a bit faster, but not horribly so (we're talking a few m/s, not like 10m/s).

 

10" x 2 m/" x 2 NCM x SPD 4 / 12 = 13.33 m/s.

 

The fastest person in the world, at full sprint, with years of training and constant conditioning, going for Olympic Gold, is just a hair over 10 m/s. (S)he isn't anywhere close to even 11 m/s.

And this is supposedly without pushing, which is not allowed to non-Heroes.

 

Yes, it's a "few m/s" more, but realize what you're saying here.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Average Human Running Speed and What is Sprinting

 

10" x 2 m/" x 2 NCM x SPD 4 / 12 = 13.33 m/s.

 

The fastest person in the world, at full sprint, with years of training and constant conditioning, going for Olympic Gold, is just a hair over 10 m/s. (S)he isn't anywhere close to even 11 m/s.

And this is supposedly without pushing, which is not allowed to non-Heroes.

 

Yes, it's a "few m/s" more, but realize what you're saying here.

I do realize what I am saying. And as far as I can tell there are no real measures of maximum speed. There are measures of the time it takes to complete a certain sprint, but who's to say that ten years ago someone didn't achieve 13m/s for the first half of a sprint? Placing all these Characteristics at the Normal Characteristic Maxima is a pretty outlandish thing. Do you really think even the best olympic athletes have a Speed of 4? Maybe. Anyway, it is reasonably close for a game, which is supposed to push the bounds of reality at least a bit. If the game maximum was 25m/s or even 17m/s I might be a little disappointed, but as is I think its not bad at all.

 

If you want something truly off, look at normal Leaping distance! It is easy to show that is way off!!! Unlike speed, jumping distance is measured directly in events, and even liberal interpretations put normal Leaping distance way above the best world records. My stance for a long time has been that humans should have about 1" of Leaping as a base value, it should not go up with Str, and it should only be purchasable as a Power (or the Normal Characteristic Maximum should also be 1"). If anything the Leaping distance should be based upon Running speed, not Str. Not that I play this way (I'm a little too easy going and lazy, and the dramatic feel is impressive besides).

[Sean Waters]

Re: Average Human Running Speed and What is Sprinting

 

The spreadsheet shows 6"x2 at SPD 2 = 10 m/s

 

Manual calculation shows

6" x 2 m/" x 2 NCM x SPD 2 / 12 = 4 m/s

 

Or do I have to lay off the decaf and wake up here?

 

 

No, it is because I am an idiot. hopefully I've got my multiply annd divides the right way round now

[Sean Waters]

Re: Average Human Running Speed and What is Sprinting

 

Here we go....

[Grail Quest]

Re: Average Human Running Speed and What is Sprinting

 

Do you really think even the best olympic athletes have a Speed of 4?

 

I've been thinking about that... What _is_ SPD 3 versus SPD 2, anyway? Can anyone give me a solid example?

 

I've been thinking about limiting normal anything to SPD 2, and maybe only supers get SPD 3+.

[gojira]

Re: Average Human Running Speed and What is Sprinting

 

According to the old Champs' II, SPD 3 is "much tougher people, including those people who have had some combat training. These would be professional athletes, well trained police (SWAT)..., specially trained soldiers (Rangers or special forces), [some] FBI or CIA agents. Better quality criminals are also found in this category."

 

So SPD 3 for a world class ("professional athletes") I think is about right.

 

 

BTW, for SPD 4 (which seems to be the maximum for "normal" people), it says "These are the toughest people you're likely to encounter on the street. These people have been highly trained in combat and are in prime physical condition. Elite troops, very tough criminals, and professional fighters (perhaps with the addition of Martial Arts) all fit into this category."

 

So to me that says Mohamed Ali (at age 23), Jackie Chan (ditto), Delta Force, and The Joker (in a NCM game) would be SPD 4.

 

All from us old farts, of course.

[Teflon Billy]

Re: Average Human Running Speed and What is Sprinting

 

Also, keep in mind that all of the "human maximums" in Hero (Char of 30) are beyond what real world human maximums reach. The human maxes in Hero are meant to be what is the absolute highest that people of legend and renown have been able to achieve yet still be considered mundane humans, plus the heroic/cinematic aspect bonus. So having the Human Max in Hero terms end up being 13+m/s instead of the real world max of 10m/s seems perfectly within reason.

 

TB

[Vorsch]

Re: Average Human Running Speed and What is Sprinting

 

SPD 7

Running 10"

 

is not legendary ability, its doing the hundred in 5 seconds-

[Ivan]

Re: Average Human Running Speed and What is Sprinting

 

SPD 7

Running 10"

 

is not legendary ability, its doing the hundred in 5 seconds-

 

And your point is?

AnyTHING with a 7 speed is well beyond human and firmly into the superhuman range.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Average Human Running Speed and What is Sprinting

 

SPD 7

Running 10"

 

is not legendary ability, its doing the hundred in 5 seconds-

I'm assumig this is response to Teflon Billy's post...

 

He did make a point to mention Human Maximum's which is SPD4. SPD7 is well beyond Human Maximum and has no bearing on his statement.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Average Human Running Speed and What is Sprinting

 

Also' date=' keep in mind that all of the "human maximums" in Hero (Char of 30) are beyond what real world human maximums reach. The human maxes in Hero are meant to be what is the absolute highest that people of legend and renown have been able to achieve yet still be considered mundane humans, [b']plus[/b] the heroic/cinematic aspect bonus. So having the Human Max in Hero terms end up being 13+m/s instead of the real world max of 10m/s seems perfectly within reason.

Not sure about everyone else, but I was talking about the usual Normal Characteristic Maxima which, for example, are 20 for the primary Characteristics, 4 for Speed, and 10" for Running.

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: Average Human Running Speed and What is Sprinting

 

Hmmmm. (40"/ Turn) = (80 m/ Turn) = (400m/ minute) = (24,000 m/ hour) = (24 k/ hour) = (14.8 miles/ hour) -- all this in Combat Speed.

 

Noncombat Speed = (14.8 mph * 2) = 29.6 mph.

 

That's not bad, considering the world record for sprinting is ~26 mph. Hero has human maxima for total Running in Inches/ Turn pegged to a T -- because conceivably, the greatest human runners that ever will be would probably JUST be able to hit 29 mph at their peak.

 

By the way, kilometer --> mile conversion is quite easy, just remember two things: .62 (say to yourself, 'point sixtee-too' and kilometers are smaller units than miles. In this way, you will know that to get miles from kilometers, you divide the distance in kilometers by 1.62, and to get kilometers from miles, you multiply the distance in miles by 1.62. Don't thank me, I have a big enough head already.

[Teflon Billy]

Re: Average Human Running Speed and What is Sprinting

 

Not sure about everyone else' date=' but I was talking about the usual Normal Characteristic Maxima which, for example, are 20 for the primary Characteristics, 4 for Speed, and 10" for Running.[/quote']NCM does not change the standard that a 30 is human maximum in primary characteristics, it just double the points going from 20 to 30.

 

TB

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: Average Human Running Speed and What is Sprinting

 

NCM does not change the standard that a 30 is human maximum in primary characteristics, it just double the points going from 20 to 30.

 

TB

 

Uh...

 

Mmmmm.

 

I see your logic, but it is flawed. You are going by the equivalents listed on the "Characteristic Comparisons" type charts (with 'Horse,' 'Rasputin,' etcetera listed on them). The fact is, you can actually continue paying double to buy your STR up to, say, 40 or 50 even under NCM, technically.

 

For all intents and purposes, only slightly supernatural (and exaggerated by legend) heroes will ever go above the NCM, even by the comparison charts. Normal humans SHOULDN'T be able to surpass 20 unaided (compared to reality), though the rules do give you that choice.

[Black Rose]

Re: Average Human Running Speed and What is Sprinting

 

I see your logic' date=' but it is flawed. You are going by the equivalents listed on the "Characteristic Comparisons" type charts (with 'Horse,' 'Rasputin,' etcetera listed on them). The fact is, you can actually continue paying double to buy your STR up to, say, 40 or 50 even under NCM, technically.[/quote']

Well, "technically", yeah. It's up to the GM to smack you down if you start going past what s/he considers "acceptable human limits in 'my' campaign". And in the real world, Mama Nature and Papa Physics (though I think this is one of those special, Suzie Has Two Mommies situations, since both nature and the physical laws of the universe can be a real mother, if ya know what I mean) who share GMing duties for the game we all play, are more than willing to smack us down, hard; Nature is willing to bend a bit at times, but Physics is brutal.

 

For all intents and purposes' date=' only slightly supernatural (and exaggerated by legend) heroes will ever go above the NCM, even by the comparison charts. Normal humans SHOULDN'T be able to surpass 20 unaided (compared to reality), though the rules do give you that choice.[/quote']

True, I suppose, but HERO isn't here to replicate normal humans, but heroic humans (and other things, too). And, while I wish they wouldn't have every Tom, Dick and Harry with a "superhuman" stat of some kind*, I like that it works the way it does.

 

 

*I'm sorry, a high CON for Blasters I can see, but why a superhuman DEX? What part of being a Blaster makes you SuperDEX Boy? Buy some CSLs for your MP and sod off.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Average Human Running Speed and What is Sprinting

 

I've been thinking about that... What _is_ SPD 3 versus SPD 2, anyway? Can anyone give me a solid example?

 

I've been thinking about limiting normal anything to SPD 2, and maybe only supers get SPD 3+.

 

Most of the problems understanding speed come from the way it interacts with movement which should, IMO, be bought 'per turn', with velocity damage modifiers done with VELOCITY/4 or somesuch. Not an ideal solution but it makes more sense than at present.

 

SPEED is the number of actions you can take in a turn, so is a combination of how fact you can react physically, and how well you can anticipate mentally, plus training etc etc., and mainly applies in combat situations. You coulds build a character with a higher speed in other situations, but it gets complicated and is rarely worth it.

 

As Gojira says you can assume that, in a NCM game, everyone is speed 2 unless they know their way around in combat. In my games, most anyone with a decent amount of combat experience - soldiers, experienced cops, agents, many heroes and villains, have speed 3 and the really top notch combattants have speed 4.

 

Of course, in supers games all that means nothing.