Cancer Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 I expect that everyone now and then stumbles over some random historical information that has no obvious real use, but could be handy in a game-world situation (and most often in a fantasy world, though pulp worlds can have the same sort of thing) for making "flavor". The troy-versus-avoidupois ounces thing in the Gold!!!! thread is one such case for me. Here's a thread for random historical data. Contribution: Old-style miles From The Building Foreman's Pocket Book and Ready Reference, by H. G. Richey, 1st ed. 1909 (New York: John Wiley & Sons) p.805, in a section titled "Mensuration Tables" [Verbatim from the book; there's no attribution or explanation in the original text. I think "Legal Le'g'e" is the "French League" used in, e.g., Verne's Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea, but I am not certain.] Number of English or United States Yards in Miles of Different Nations Arabian 2148 Bohemian 10187 Brebant 6082 Burgundy 6183 Chinese (Hls) 682 Dutch (Ure) 6395 Danish 8244 English (U.S.) 1760 English (geographical) 2025 Flemish 6869 German (geographical) 8100 Hamburg 8244 Hanover 11559 Hesse 10547 Hungarian 9113 French (art leagues) 4860 French (marine) 6075 Legal Le'g'e (2000 toises) 4263 Irish 3338 Italian 2025 Luthenian 9784 Oldenburg 10820 Persian (paisang) 6082 Polish (long) 8101 Polish (short) 6095 Portuguese (leguos) 6760 Prussian 8498 Roman (modern) 2035 Roman (ancient) 1613 Russian (verst) 1167 Saxon 9905 Scotch 1984 Silesian 7083 Spanish (leguas) 4630 Spanish (com) 7416 Swiss 9166 Swedish 11704 Turkey 1821 Tuscan 1808 Vienna (post mile) 8296 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Labrat Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 Re: Miscellaneous Historical Data Bueno... may I add that you can go here and have it all black-boxed? http://www.onlineconversion.com/ A more direct route: http://www.onlineconversion.com/length_all.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted October 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 Re: Miscellaneous Historical Data Bueno... may I add that you can go here and have it all black-boxed? http://www.onlineconversion.com/ A more direct route: http://www.onlineconversion.com/length_all.htm That's a cool site, though I admit my interest was piqued not by the ability to translate various kinds of miles into each other, but by the sheer variability of measures in use at some point in time, and how all those different units came about. I assume my 1909 reference is citing mostly stuff in use probably in the late 19th Century, maybe just before the unification of Germany in 1871. Also, there's the variation in the numbers themselves. There's several "miles" at just over 2000 yards ... these probably are all supposed to be nautical miles, that is, the distance equivalent of an angle of one minute of arc on a sphere the size of the Earth. The similar clump at about 6080 yards is probably three nautical miles. (The parenthetical comments "geographial" and "marine" suggest this to me as well.) Maybe the minor clump at 8100 yards are supposed to be four nautical miles. Otherwise the distribution in sizes is smooth, and the median "mile" is between 6100 and 6200 yards ... substantially more than three US statute miles! This is purely speculation on my part, but perhaps a more common concept of a "mile" or any raw feeling for a conveniently-grasped chunk of distance is the distance a person walks in some time like an hour. (The English mile is derived from the ancient Roman mile, which was defined to be a fixed number of paces, IIRC. The kilometer is 1000 meters, and a meter was originally defined by modern means, in terms of the Earth: one ten-millionth of the distance from Equator to North Pole.) And there's also the strange, possibly coincidental observation that the largest/most populous countries tended to have the shortest "mile", and the teeny German principalities had large ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdguy Posted October 23, 2005 Report Share Posted October 23, 2005 Re: Miscellaneous Historical Data Another historical link, unrelated to measuring distance, but it seems appropriate for this thread. http://www.unc.edu/courses/rometech/public/content/survival/Lindsay_Mack/Food_Preservation.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barwickian Posted October 23, 2005 Report Share Posted October 23, 2005 Re: Miscellaneous Historical Data Some weights and measures derived from a pre-WW2 edition of Arthur Mee's Children's Encyclopaedia: Note: the British Imperial bushel dates from the Weights & Measures Act 1824. It is slightly larger than American bushels, which are derived from the 15th century Winchester bushel, and are therefore more authentically medieval. I give both figures. For those unfamiliar with the British Imperial system, a bushel is a measure of dry volume equivalent to eight gallons. It isn't quite the same in the American system (it's about 9.3 US gallons; unlike the Imperial system the US wet quart and dry quart are different). The Imperial bushel equates to 36.37 litres, the American one to 35.24 litres. One pound (lb) is 454 grammes in both the US and British Imperial systems. [b] Imperial American Item bushel bushel[/b] Cherries [*] 72lb 70lb Plums [*] 72lb 70lb Pears [*] 72lb 70lb Beans 66lb 64lb Salt 65lb 63lb Apples [*] 64lb 62lb Gooseberries [*] 64lb 62lb Lentils 63lb 61lb Peas 63lb 61lb Maize 60lb 58lb Wheat 60lb 58lb Onions 57lb 55lb Currants 56lb 54lb Potatoes 56lb 54lb Barley 55lb 53lb Rye 54lb 52lb Raspberries [*] 48lb 47lb Swedes 45lb 44lb Turnips 45lb 44lb Carrots 40lb 39lb Parsnips 40lb 39lb Oats 40lb 39lb Green peas 32lb 31lb [*] The Children's Encyclopaedia gives these weights in pecks (1/4 bushel). There is sometimes a discrepancy between weights given in pecks and weights given in bushels - it notes potatoes as 56lb/bushel and 14lb/peck, which is fine, but turnips as 12lb/peck and 45lb/bushel. Obviously some rounding off has been done somewhere, so where an option is given (potatoes, onions and turnips), I've favoured the weight per bushel. The Children's Encyclopaedia is chock full of bits of information useless to all but obsessive roleplayers. So if you're an obsessive roleplayer, read on... Strength of Ice 1.5 inches thick will support a man 4 inches will support a horseman 10 inches will support a crowd 18 inches will support a railway train Weight of timber (lb/cubic foot) (note: whether this is seasoned or unseasoned weight is not specified.) Alder 33 Ash 46 Beech 46 Birch 40 Horse Chestnut 35 Spanish Chestnut 41 English Elm 43 Silver Fir 30 Hazel 39 Hornbeam 45 Larch 38 Lime 28 Maple 42 Oak 53 Scots Pine 32 Poplar 30 Norway Spruce 30 Sycamore 41 Willow 33 Hay & Straw Weight 36lb of straw is one truss 56lb of old hay is one truss 60lb of new hay is one truss 36 trusses is one load Wool weight 7lb is one clove 14lb is one stone 182lb is one wey 364lb is one sack 4386lb is one last 20lb is one score 12 score is one pack Velocity of water 3 ft/sec will move fine clay 6 ft/sec will move fine sand 8 ft/sec will move coarse sand 12 ft/sec will move gravel as large as one inch diameter 36 ft/sec will move stones as large as hens' eggs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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