enchanteds items or make magicals items

[steph]

hi everyone just have difficulties with the rules in the fantasy hero and hero grimoire about enchanted items i dont understand the mechanism for build a magic items (question of language) someone here can explain in simple words how this magic system work explain the all processus for making a magic item the mechanism of the item cost and the creation cost etc etc..........

hope i am clear

english not my first language

stef the french canadian and in a few quebec citizen

[atlascott]

Re: enchanteds items or make magicals items

 

Généralement, des articles magiques sont achetés avec des points de caractère juste comme des qualifications et des talents et des puissances. Des articles enchantés sont habituellement établis comme foyer, et d'autres limitations sont appliquées, de sorte qu'elles soient généralement meilleur marché qu'établissant une puissance inhérente à un caractère. Pouvez-vous donner une description plus détaillée de ce qui est embrouillant vous ?

 

Im sorry, my French is terrible

[schir1964]

Re: enchanteds items or make magicals items

 

...I'm sorry' date=' my French is terrible[/quote']

Could you translate that into english for the rest of us? (8^D)

 

- Christopher Mullins

[Sean Waters]

Re: enchanteds items or make magicals items

 

Généralement, des articles magiques sont achetés avec des points de caractère juste comme des qualifications et des talents et des puissances. Des articles enchantés sont habituellement établis comme foyer, et d'autres limitations sont appliquées, de sorte qu'elles soient généralement meilleur marché qu'établissant une puissance inhérente à un caractère. Pouvez-vous donner une description plus détaillée de ce qui est embrouillant vous ?

 

Im sorry, my French is terrible

 

Generally' date=' of the magic articles are bought with points of nature right like qualifications and talents and powers. Magic articles are usually drawn up like hearth, and other limitations are applied, so that they are generally cheaper than establishing an inherent power in a character. Can you give a more detailed description of what is muddling you?[/quote']

 

I bet my French is worse, mate I think you did very well.

[atlascott]

Re: enchanteds items or make magicals items

 

I think I speak babelfish French! ;>)

[Legendsmiths]

Re: enchanteds items or make magicals items

 

Are you talking about how much the spells of enchantment should cost or the items themselves?

 

This is somewhat tricky. In a typical FH game no one pays points for items, even magical ones, so to the end-user/character of the item it costs 0 points. The only person who has to pay is the caster, and he only has to pay for the spell to create the item.

 

The spell cost works like this:

1. Build the item using Hero powers; do not include the Independant Limitation.

2. That is the Base Cost for the spell. The time to cast is 1 day per 10 active points.

3. The END cost is Long-Term END.

 

I use a system of time and skill. Items take an amount of time to enchant proportional to the points of the final item, built like any standard Hero focus. The difficulty (i.e. skill penalty) is also derived from that cost.

 

In basic terms, something like 1 day per real cost of the item and -1 to the Enchant skill per 5 real cost of the item can work. You can get into more detail, but it is up to your campaign to define what the limitations on enchantment are.

 

Whether you decide to make the players pay for magic items they find is up to you. As an alternative you can require a character to "attune" to the item. This attunement takes some amount of time (if you want) and costs them 1/3 of the real cost of the magic item. Once spent, a player may reallocate those points to other items (e.g. a better sword) but points spent on attunement can never be moved elsewhere. So, if the character comes across a sword with a real cost of 13, he will have to use 4 character points to attune to it. Later, he comes across two 8 point items and decides to attune to them instead of his sword. Using this system you have a method for limiting access to magic items, managing magic items when new characters are introduced, but it isn't something that is so expensive that players won't want to do it. As a GM, if the players have gotten a particularly large treasure horde you could award some extra XP to allow for attunement to new items, and those players who don't use magic get a little edge too.

[prestidigitator]

Re: enchanteds items or make magicals items

 

The Hero System itself doesn't have rules for the actual act of item creation. That is left up to the campaign setting and the GM.

 

As for their mechanical composition, in Superheroic games they tend to just be SFX and Powers/Frameworks bought with the Focus (Personal or Universal) and/or Only in Hero ID Limitations. In Heroic games they tend to be Powers bought with Focus and Independent and often (e.g. potions, scrolls, maybe wands, etc.) either Delayed Effect or (Non-Recoverable) Charges. These are hardly the only ways to build magical items in either type of game (that is limited only by your imagination), but they are the usual constructs.

[Legendsmiths]

Re: enchanteds items or make magicals items

 

That's not true. It is fully spelled out in FH and is the default for Turakian Age. The points above (1,2,3) are the basic steps in that system from FH.

[prestidigitator]

Re: enchanteds items or make magicals items

 

That's not true. It is fully spelled out in FH and is the default for Turakian Age. The points above (1' date='2,3) are the basic steps in that system from FH.[/quote']

FH gives one possible method for magical item creation. However, that is not a part of the basic Hero System; it is setting-specific source material. It really can't be a part of the system, because different settings and different campaigns may vary widely in how magical items are created, and the Hero System isn't about limiting SFX or setting elements.

[Legendsmiths]

Re: enchanteds items or make magicals items

 

The first sentence of Steph's question asks how the fantasy hero and hero grimoire handle magic items. Every enchantment in the grimoire is built using the sytem from FH which is what I outlined. We can argue about whether the rules options presented in FH are part of the Hero Sytem or an adjunct but regardless they are the rules in question.

 

The confusing part in the Grimoire is it lists a creation spell with the cost of the item, including the Independent limitation. Then it lists the cost of the creation spell. The base cost of the creation spell and the cost of the item do not match, although it appears they should. The reason is the cost of the spell uses the cost of the item without the Independent limitation, which is why it seems to be about double the cost of the item.

 

The reason for this is when a character gets the enchanted item, technically the item cost has to be reflected on the character. In a campaign where no points are paid for items, even magic ones, the character simply gets those points for free, and consequently loses them when he loses the item. In other campaigns a character might actually have to pay points for the item to "attune" to it and be able to use it, and those points would come from his experience or somewhere else.

 

The enchanter however need only pay the points of the creation spell to know how to create such an enchanted item.

[austenandrews]

Re: enchanteds items or make magicals items

 

In my last fantasy game, for creating magic items I used the Transform rules for adding Powers... but that's too complicated to get into.

[ThatDarnCat]

Re: enchanteds items or make magicals items

 

In my last fantasy game' date=' for creating magic items I used the Transform rules for adding Powers... but that's too complicated to get into. [/quote']Funny thing. I was on a furst call last night and was thinking about this and came to the conclusion that transform would be a good mechanic for the actual creation of magic items.

 

As a GM you could require that players who wish to create magic items could have a Transform, either a single uber transform "any inanimate object into a magic inanimate object" or a transform specific to each item in the game "transform normal sword into magic sword of specific uberness".

 

Either way you have to choose the specifics that apply to all magic items in your world. Are they Foci or Real weapons/armor or both. How do you make something unmagic? How hard is it to magic items? Do items have to be made from special materials to even become magic (transform Arconite sword into Arconite sword of specific uberness)? What limitations and advantages must be taken on the transform itself?

 

I hate to use it as an example but... In 3.5 D&D the magic item creation feats do evive the plethora of magic goodies into fairly well defined groups. You could have one transform for each catagory and, depending on the way you handle spells in your game, have enough transforms that a mage might be forced to choose only one or two types rather than being able to create any type at any time.

 

In this case you could have a 3d6 Major Transformation, standard effect (+0), Limited Target: "Normal armor or weapon into non-specific magic armor or weapon" (-1), Extra Time: one hour (-3), Gestures: thoughout, both paws (-1/2), Incantations, throughout (-1/4), Concentration: 0DCV, character is totally unaware of nearby events (-3/4), Requires a skill roll (-1/2). (active points: 45, real points: 6)

 

This is a Transform that

 

You could throw in some extras like Difficult to Dispell to make the item more durable against magic or Gradual Effect if you want the spell to take a really long time to cast and take effect. If you require special materials just add Limited Power "only on X material" to represent magic that only works on the inherently magical materials in your game world.

 

/me rambles incoherently and climbs back into bed

[austenandrews]

Re: enchanteds items or make magicals items

 

Here's a writeup of the Transform-based system for creating magic items in my last fantasy game. This version is a first draft, a bit obtuse, mostly for my own reference - I never boiled it down to player-level simplicity - but it conveys some of the basic game-mechanics concepts I worked with.

[Sean Waters]

Re: enchanteds items or make magicals items

 

Very interesting idea: I like it!