Economics 101: Character Building in a Point-Based System

[Mentor]

Re: Economics 101: Character Building in a Point-Based System

 

I think some of us are still talking past one another.

 

It seems that to some posters, the definition of a successful Champions character is based on being able to deal and survive the most physical damage in a 12 phase turn.

 

That misses the point of a role playing game on so many levels, IMHO. Throwing in 15 points of skills doesn't make these statistical damage constructs characters.

[Robyn]

Re: Economics 101: Character Building in a Point-Based System

 

To me that suggests that the players think it's worthwhile to have that higher SPD and/or DEX' date=' so why not let them buy it?[/quote']

 

If a power can be statted out in the HERO system, and the players have enough XP to pay for it, why can't they suddenly have that power?

 

What?

 

Yes' date=' but even game balance is a series of compromises between individual players. (More importantly, it's not imposed by the GM but is a voluntary accomodation)[/quote']

 

Hmm, sounds oddly familiar . . .

 

A game system is an artificial economy with price fixing by the game designers instead of the government.

Letting laissez faire run things allows for far greater design flexibility and individuality.

 

Laissez faire, telle devrait être la devise de toute puissance publique, depuis que le monde est civilisé.

 

Détestable principe que celui de ne vouloir grandeur que par l'abaissement de nos voisins! Il n'y a que la méchanceté et la malignité du coeur de satisfaites dans ce principe, et l’intérêt y est opposé. Laissez faire, morbleu! Laissez faire!!

 

Ahem. Sorry. Got carried away a bit, there.

 

I think Trebuchet is approaching this from a purely free enterprise' date=' capitalistic viewpoint, in which the market is self-regulating.[/quote']

 

Sounds close, but I think there's something more here . . .

 

Walmart can offer me things at a discount price' date=' but they can't hold a gun to my head and [u']make[/u] me buy from them.

 

Aha! Gun-to-head example! One of Ms. Rand's personal favorites, as I recall

[Trebuchet]

Re: Economics 101: Character Building in a Point-Based System

 

If a power can be statted out in the HERO system' date=' and the players have enough XP to pay for it, why [i']can't[/i] they suddenly have that power?

 

Hmm, sounds oddly familiar . . .

 

Sounds close, but I think there's something more here . . .

 

Aha! Gun-to-head example! One of Ms. Rand's personal favorites, as I recall

Did all of that meandering have a point; or were you just inserting random thoughts?

 

Some people are still missing the central point: Any human endeavor which allocates limited resources (which is essentially everything we do) is affected by the basic laws of economics. It doesn't matter whether it's manufacturing microchips, selling cantaloupe, land for farming, building a player character for a point-based role-playing game, or triaging wounded soldiers on the battlefield for emergency surgery. There is only so much of any desired commodity available and only so many resources to get it with. It's not rocket science.

 

Assuming all other factors are equal, something with a lower cost (in time, money, crops, Character Points, lives lost, etc.) will be selected more often that if it costs more. Of course, that's assuming there's an interest or perceived use for the item in question. If all music CD's cost $1, I'd have a much bigger music collection. If all rap and Britney Spears CD's cost $0.01 I still wouldn't own any of either. Others would naturally feel differently, but might still eschew my Alan Parsons Project and Shania Twain.

 

A speedster might have less interest in having a 60 STR because it violates his concept, he can't afford the END cost, and/or it exceeds campaign rules; so he's probably not going to place it as high on his priority list as SPD, DEX, or movement. A brick will obviously have different priorities than a speedster and hence what he is willing to spend on STR and CON in total is likely to be much more.

[Robyn]

Re: Economics 101: Character Building in a Point-Based System

 

Did all of that meandering have a point; or were you just inserting random thoughts?

 

Neither. Their connection should become apparent with a bit of research into the relevant economic doctrines, though.

 

There is only so much of any desired commodity available and only so many resources to get it with. It's not rocket science.

 

Except, in this case, that first part simply isn't true (barring AP caps in the campaign). If you really wanted to, you could spend all your points on Endurance; the limiting factor then wouldn't be that they'd run out of the desired commodity, but that you'd run out of resources.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Economics 101: Character Building in a Point-Based System

 

Except' date=' in this case, that first part simply isn't true (barring AP caps in the campaign). If you really wanted to, you could spend [i']all[/i] your points on Endurance; the limiting factor then wouldn't be that they'd run out of the desired commodity, but that you'd run out of resources.

Not really. Again, you're missing the point - the laws of economics would still apply. In Hero, the "resources" we're looking at is capabilities. Except for SPD, there's no cap on Characteristics or on most Powers or Skills. You'd still run out of either resources or the desired commodity. To use your example, yes, you could build a "Mr. Endurance" with 700 END. He never has to worry about running out of END in combat, of course, but he can't do anything else either and so isn't a viable character. That's where this becomes an exercise in economics - priorities still have to be set. Different players and concepts will have different priorities, but they still have only so many character points to spend no matter how "legitimate" the purchase is.

 

As an example, I recently built a light-based Champions PC for a now-defunct PBEM game. The PC is literally "living light." This concept fully justified, both in my mind and with the GM's blessing, that PC having FTL Flight 1 LY/Year. But I didn't buy it for him because it cost too much. Perhaps if I'd had a chance to play him longer I'd have bought eventually it with XP. Another player with the same character concept might well have decided it was crucial and bought it by dumping some of the PC's many science Skills which I thought were more critical. Different people; same fundamental law - Not enough resources to buy everything we want.

 

Please keep in mind that in this thread I'm discussing only the economics of character purchases; not their "legitimacy" or factors such as GM veto, point caps (really a subset of GM veto), or concept. Economics still can trump concept; just because something is fully in concept and receives GM approval doesn't mean the character can afford to buy it with his limited character points. A lack of points for a desired ability can render GM approval moot.