Change Environment's Telekinesis

[Tempuswolf]

To preface, some Q&A from the Rules Questions Boards:

 

Change Environment's Telekinesis

 

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Does the telekinetic effect of Change Environment function like Telekinesis advantaged with Area Effect? Do you have to divide up the lifting weight per hex to find out what size objects are affected? Or do you compare the STR to the weight of each object in the CE?

 

For example, HS5R pg. 136, if Lodestone's 0 STR low level magnetic field had a radius of 4" would it lift:

 

25 kilos/ 37 hexes= 2/3 a kilo in a hex

-or-

Anything ferrous 25 kilos or less?

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Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. - Mark Twain

 

 

Re: Change Environment's Telekinesis

 

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Does the telekinetic effect of Change Environment function like Telekinesis advantaged [sic] with Area Effect?[sic]

 

Yes, that’s how it works, unless the GM rules otherwise for some reason.

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Steve Long

HERO System Line Developer

 

Change Environment's Telekinesis Follow-Up

 

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A telekinetic combat effect Change Environment hits an area with a large number of objects.

 

How do you determine which objects the telekinesis manipulates and the intensity of the effect?

 

As I am getting stuck applying this power at the game table, any practical example would be greatly appreciated.

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Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. - Mark Twain

 

 

 

 

 

Re: Change Environment's Telekinesis Follow-Up

 

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There are no guidelines in the rules beyond what's discussed on 5ER 231; it's left to the GM as an exercise of dramatic sense, common sense, and general discretion. It might be worth starting a discussion about on the "Discussion" board if you'd like to explore the topic further.

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Steve Long

HERO System Line Developer

 

So how does TK combat effect CE work at your game table?

 

If there are a large number of objects, how do you determine which objects the telekinesis manipulates and the intensity of the effect?

[Dust Raven]

Re: Change Environment's Telekinesis

 

Buying TK with Area Effect will cost a lot less than buying TK effects through Change Enviornment, so long as you are buying 10 or less points of effect. Since you are payng more points, and not really receiving any additional benifits, I'd say the CE's TK is at least as useful as normal TK. In general, I'd rule that the user can select which targets are affected by the TK and how, though as normal, all targets affected at the same time must be affected equally. So a Windstorm CE Power (with a 3" radius for example) could whip up a wind that throws sand around and blows leaves and papers around, but the TK STR can be directed against specific targets, leaving others unaffected.

 

Now, if the area of the CE is bought up to the levels where it's more effecient to buy CE than TK, it becomes less accurate. The same Windstorm power with a 16" radius is going to have less discrimination against target selected, and likely just affect the entire area equally.

 

This makes logical sense as well. The more area you cover, the less control you'll have over the affects of any specific hex.

[Tempuswolf]

Re: Change Environment's Telekinesis

 

Thanks for responding, Dust Raven.

 

Seems to me what you are describing is straying into an extra Selective Advantage for the CE. A Windstorm CE should be exerting force equally on everything in the area of effect. I think the rule that "TK applied to an AE doesn't lift anymore than the TK can lift w/o the AE" logically breaks down, even though there might be balance issues (when you are dealing with full TK and not so much so with CE TK). Assigning the CE a TK STR that lifts equally on everything in the AE certainly makes the power easier to apply- just compare the STR needed to lift the weight of the object to the TK STR and it moves 4/5 the difference in inches. This seems more playable than inventorying the objects in the AE and parsing them out in some order until the TK STR lifting capacity is reached. However, in application there is just an object or a certain class of objects in the CE that you keep track of, any other effects not reaching above Special Effects or a baseline CE effect, so a Selective approach like you suggest would work well.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Change Environment's Telekinesis

 

One potential way to lift a LOT of stuff with CE or AE TK is to add in autofire: being seperate attacks, which will almost certainly overlap A LOT, the amount you can lift is per attack. Spread the ability to lift (say) 1000kg over 20 hexes and you can't get a normal sized character off the ground. Make that 2 or more times autofire and you can....and relatively cheaply....

 

Not tried this in practive but it strikes me as one way around the TK/AE interaction rules.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Change Environment's Telekinesis

 

It seems to me you would likely have a lot more control over an Area of Effect TK than over a Change Environment. I would normally limit a Change Environment's TK effects to something like, "creating a whirlwind," or, "applying a uniform change in gravity," but not likely, "lifting everyone up, turning them head over heals, and giving them a little rattle whenever I feel like it" (even though the latter may be applied to everyone in the area uniformly, it strikes me as a TK effect, not a CE one). Also remember that Change Environment can have some lingering effects for a short period (which could be an advantage or a detriment depending on the circumstances).

[TaxiMan]

Re: Change Environment's Telekinesis

 

I don't like this ruling, it doesn't seem like it fits the genre to me. In my world, TK with AoE can lift its STR per hex. You end up being able to lift enormously heavy loads, but they have to be very big. If something has too much weight in a hex, it can't be lifted.

 

Someone with regular TK who spent the same points can exert enormous force over a small area.

 

So TK AoE could lift a huge, thin granite slab lying horizontally (but maybe not vertically!). Regular TK could pull a telephone pole out of the ground (requires lots more oomph than lifting a granite slab!).

[Dust Raven]

Re: Change Environment's Telekinesis

 

I don't like this ruling' date=' it doesn't seem like it fits the genre to me. [/quote']

 

Not to be picky, but what genre are you talking about? The rules are genreless. In any case, which rule is it you don't like? I've reread the original post and the answers quoted have pretty much been vague.