Detect Life 'Radio Group' - Need help as a GM

[MPT]

I am running a Star Hero campaign where one player has the standard item which is Detect Life bought as the Radio Group with Analyse (I don't have the book to hand so cannot give the page number). This leads to three problems for me. As I suspect they apply to all genres I have posted my query here.

 

1) The FAQ has the following:

 

Q: Since radio waves can penetrate walls, does that mean that Radio Group Senses, like Radio Perception/Transmission and HRRP, provide an N-Ray Perception type of effect?

 

A: No. The fact that some substances are, if you will, “transparent†to radio waves doesn’t mean Radio Group Senses provide N-Ray Perception. Normal Sight can see light through some substances (such as glass or curtains), but that doesn’t mean it provides N-Ray Perception.

 

Now whilst I know that a Faraday cage and a strong electrical current can block radio - what else can I use as a 'blocker'?

 

2) The player is arguing that the distance of a normal Radio from a Radio Transmitter does not affect a Radio's ability to pick up the signal, and therefore range modifiers for this power are nonsensical (as he puts it, the range from a Radio to a Satellite is such that if a Radio has to roll to pick up the signal it would never succeed). He wants to purchase the Line Of Sight Advantage to remove this but (given my point 3 below) I am not certain I want him to do this. Has anyone a good argument (other than GM fiat) to stop him?

 

3) How do you ambush or otherwise force a PC into a combat when they have this power since they can easily spot where all the potential enemies are and what they are?

 

Whilst it is tempting to simply say 'You cannot have it', this is such a standard device for the genre that I don't want to remove it unless I absolutely have to. [Even reducing it from Analyse to Discriminate does not help much].

[McCoy]

Re: Detect Life 'Radio Group' - Need help as a GM

 

2) The player is arguing that the distance of a normal Radio from a Radio Transmitter does not affect a Radio's ability to pick up the signal' date=' and therefore range modifiers for this power are nonsensical (as he puts it, the range from a Radio to a Satellite is such that if a Radio has to roll to pick up the signal it would never succeed). He wants to purchase the Line Of Sight Advantage to remove this but (given my point 3 below) I am not certain I want him to do this. Has anyone a good argument (other than GM fiat) to stop him?[/quote']

Well that's flat out wrong. Like any other EM, double the distance, and the signal is 1/4 as strong.

 

Not sure I understand the power here. Are we talking about detecting people from the EM transmitted by their cell phones, walkie talkies and other equiptment, or the (very weak) EM field generated by a human sized mass? If the first, I agree no range modifier needed, but keep in mind someone with no power source is going to be invisible to this sense. If it's detecting the natural EM field, I think normal range modifiers are approperate.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Detect Life 'Radio Group' - Need help as a GM

 

I'm with McCoy; I'm having trouble figuring out what it is the player is trying to accomplish, although you seem to be asking reasonable questions regarding it. Those being:

 

1) How much munch would a munchkin munch, if a munchkin could munch munch? Are they trying to build a variation on Clairsentience via a radio receiver? A motion tracker (ala Aliens?) Something that's aware of outlying signals?

 

2) Radios do make to hit rolls - but the power is constant. Once the signal is cut, the radio makes a new "to hit" roll to hold the signal, unless something outside of it happens.

 

3) An EMP should frag this power nicely. In Star Wars, the writers had to design something that made dealing with lightsabers for normals possible; those are Cortosis Weave weapons. If we assume that if one guy has the tech, other people may have the tech, than there is likely someone (or something) who, after a little exposure, could start taking steps towards defeating the tech. Anything man builds, can ultimately be wrecked by the appropriate villain and/or super power.

 

3) Will it, actually, break your game? Probably not, but you have to think outside the box a bit.

 

Could you explain the situation a bit more clearly? It would help us give more targeted advice.

[kave99]

Re: Detect Life 'Radio Group' - Need help as a GM

 

i have funny feeling that he is taking about a tri-corder like devise. detect life signs at range analyze. I would say that it would give only the most vague information about Numbers, range and location. but would tell you how healthy thy are . being in the radio group means that things like emp, weird electrical Fields and flash attacks vs radio sense grope would effect its readings . really its just a plot device for the gm to use. "well Captain she appears human but she is to perfect . Yes she is Dr!!!!"

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Detect Life 'Radio Group' - Need help as a GM

 

Now whilst I know that a Faraday cage and a strong electrical current can block radio - what else can I use as a 'blocker'?

 

It doesn't have to totally block the radio to make it ineffective as a sense. If you smear Vaseline all over your windows, light still gets in, but you can't really see anything through them. Some things that can do this to radio: Large masses of metal (whether metal buildings or ore deposits), bodies of water, large hills or mountains, power lines, rain, snow, lightning, fog, another signal on the same frequency or on a harmonic of that frequency. In the right situations, some of these things can actually boost a radio signal, making it even harder to pinpoint a location (which is generally difficult to impossible without at least three widely spaced radio detectors anyway).

 

The reason you can still hear your car radio while driving around these things is because your car radio isn't a "targeting" sense. It can detect that there is a radio transmitter somewhere nearby, but not where that transmitter is. So, in many situations, your player's character could know that there is life somewhere nearby, but not where it is, and the signal strength might mean that it's close or that it's big (or conversely it could be either far away or very small).

 

2) The player is arguing that the distance of a normal Radio from a Radio Transmitter does not affect a Radio's ability to pick up the signal' date=' and therefore range modifiers for this power are nonsensical (as he puts it, the range from a Radio to a Satellite is such that if a Radio has to roll to pick up the signal it would never succeed). He wants to purchase the Line Of Sight Advantage to remove this but (given my point 3 below) I am not certain I want him to do this. Has anyone a good argument (other than GM fiat) to stop him?[/quote']

 

The radio frequencies that propagate well over distances are generally the ones that are easiest to block. Let him have either Line of Sight or Increased PER, but not both, unless he buys it as a Multipower (so that they're not usable at the same time).

 

3) How do you ambush or otherwise force a PC into a combat when they have this power since they can easily spot where all the potential enemies are and what they are?

 

As mentioned above, sometimes his radio detector just isn't all that reliable.

 

Whilst it is tempting to simply say 'You cannot have it'' date=' this is such a standard device for the genre that I don't want to remove it unless I absolutely have to. [Even reducing it from Analyse to Discriminate does not help much'].

 

Another idea is to allow it Analyze under ideal conditions, Discriminate under less ideal conditions, and a base level Detect under crappy conditions.

[gojira]

Re: Detect Life 'Radio Group' - Need help as a GM

 

I think I'm with the other guys.

 

First, what the heck is this thing? Ignore the rules, just give us the inspiration. Is it a tricorder, remote probe thing, tracking device (radio collar?), what?

 

Second, everything Captain Obvious said about blocking radio waves. And radio waves ARE line of sight. Sometimes you can bounce them under cloud cover, but this is not reliable.

 

Third I don't have the book, but if this is just a tricorder, then this is just detect life w/ OAF disad. Remember that PEOPLE are fairly permeable to radio waves too. Goes right through ya, so radio waves are not real good at detecting hoomans. I dunno what Star Trek was supposed to use. You'll just have to define the special effect with the player.

 

Also, you can't SEE with radio waves. They are too big. You can't get a picture smaller than about twice the wavelenght or so. So you can see building with radio waves, but again people are probably too small. Mircowaves would work (small wave length, that's why they are "micro"), but mircowaves are stopped by all the same things light is, so there's no real advantage there.

 

Basically you only relay information (with a detector, ie radio) with radio waves, or detect a source. Nothing smaller than a building or hill or storm front shows up.

[tesuji]

Re: Detect Life 'Radio Group' - Need help as a GM

 

Whilst it is tempting to simply say 'You cannot have it', this is such a standard device for the genre that I don't want to remove it unless I absolutely have to. [Even reducing it from Analyse to Discriminate does not help much].

 

Ok first off, RULES are not your answer here. The rules let you build this to do what you think it should do. So, what do you think it should do.

 

if you are talking Star trek tricorder, then it can sense people within miles, sense ship[s in orbit, etc. Now, there is nothing wrong with that BUT...

 

that means some things don't work so well story wise.

 

Ambushes get tough. that cuts both ways. neither side can expect to sneak up on the other barring the "special cases" where something interferes with the scan. in St:NG and later treks they repeatedly had environments where scans were useless. Whether it was a certain mineral in cave walls or an ionized cloud/storm, they frequently had (when they needed them) cases where the scans would not work.

 

Now, of course you don't want to overuse these cases but keep in mind that anyone wanting to hide or ambush would need to seek out such a locale. So, its not too uncommon.

 

The big issue for you is to define this item as you want it to play, then build to that.

[Jaxom]

Re: Detect Life 'Radio Group' - Need help as a GM

 

Sounds to me like the inspiration is the tricoder too and that answers a lot of questions very easily.

 

First, it is focused, not 360 degree awareness. Otherwise why is Bones always running the thing up close and waving it around to get specific answers? Even using real physics, signals get weaker using r^2 laws... We just waste loads of power broadcasting certain radio signals.

 

Second, you have to define a specific radio signature to detect. If you want to detect life, fine. Makes the auto-cannon impossible to spot. Tells you nothing about the targets' armaments. Tells you nothing about their powers. Might trigger showing massive life-sign over a large patch of algae.

 

If the player actually wants 360 degree awareness of threats, that's a Defensive Maneuver (see skills) and it's even reasonably cheap. Buy your sensor as a tactical combat system and just have it report any threat detected. The way to overcome that in a tech environment is to make him take it with a focus and some sort of limitations on how it detects and then go to town with counters like eletrical storms, wire meshes, etc.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Detect Life 'Radio Group' - Need help as a GM

 

Now whilst I know that a Faraday cage and a strong electrical current can block radio - what else can I use as a 'blocker'?

 

Water blocks radio waves, doesn't it? A nice scuba adventure may be in order. If I know about this power/device, I'll stage my ambush so we come at you from under water at a river or lake.

 

Not something to be encountered all the time, but certainly one weakness.

[MPT]

Re: Detect Life 'Radio Group' - Need help as a GM

 

Thanks for all your replies - I thought I had replied to these yesterday but must have clicked on the wrong button.

 

You have all given me something to think about.

 

The item is indeed like a tricorder, it is intended to pick up the life signs of creatures and indicate what they are and anything special about them (hence the Analyse). The character has the appropriate Sensor/Science skills to use the device and understand what it detects.

 

I am especially grateful to Jaxom and Captain Obvious who have pointed out the limitations of the device.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Detect Life 'Radio Group' - Need help as a GM

 

1. N-Ray Perception is not an adder for senses: it is just down to how you define your detect. It SHOULD be an adder, or advantage possibly; this is a problem with the system to my mind. N-Ray Perception and normal vision are built pretty much the same way in HERO. This makes no sense.

 

2. All perception has a range modifier. If the player doesn't want a range modifier, he can pay extra points to reduce or remove it: don't get caught up in circular logic: radio waves have a long range so the power should too - it does, if you pay enough for it.

 

3. Don't let him buy the epower as a sense, or require the device to be tuned for the particular TYPE of life it is supposed to be detecting (it can pick up humans OR sabre toothed tigers OR sentient carnivorous plants, but not simultaneously. Actually just having it as a 'non-sense', maybe adding in extra time, should be enough - the power works fine but takes time, and if you want to track someone you have to stand still to do it. The trick with Hero is to work the power through all the way: what do you want to be able to do with it, and what limtiations does it need to accomplish that AND game balance.

 

Good luck.