It's HUGE!

[CleverName]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden

What's your opinion, folks: do you think that a huge Fantasy book is going to attract the average gamer (HERO or otherwise) who sees it on a shelf, or intimidate them into passing it by?

 

I think that for every gamer intimidated by the size of a book -- especially a "genre" book -- there's another who thinks, "What a bargain!"

 

I do know of some gamers put off by the size of FReD, the core book. When most people play HERO and see that the 95% of the work is up-front during character creation, then the majority of their objections fade. It sounds kind of trite, but I often start out with the index. That usually blows most experienced gamers away!

 

Whereas, when I've shown Star Hero to even non-Hero gamers, they are impressed by its depth and breadth - so size is a plus in these types of books. (And the index still rocks!) Star Hero was the first supplement from HERO GAMES that really showed a lot of gamers I know that HERO supplements can _exceed_ the general _utility_ of the GURPS supplement line.

 

It looks like FH is on the way to being like SH --- a great genre sourcebook. I think that its size will be a plus. First, it offers HERO players a ton of info on running Fantasy. I think most hero gamers will buy it eventually. Second, it offers non-hero players a ton of info they can use (rip off) for their own systems.

 

Will it woo away _tons_ of d20 players? Probably not -- at least initially. Unfortunately, I think that's partially to do with timing. With the release of 3.5 this summer I think the buzz around D&D will be very strong this summer. Who could have foreseen that it would be going up against 3.5? (Despite some histrionics on forums like rpg.net, I forecast that 3.5 will be a huge success.) BUT I believe that success of any kind in the hobby is good for all in the long run. I am very hopeful that folks looking for a GREAT alternative to d20 will take a look at FH.

 

Will this cross-market approach sell a lot of copies? I don't know, most of my data is anecdotal, but I know that several non-hero gamers will give it a look based on the strength of SH alone. I hope the trend continues.

 

Good job, HERO! Keep it up.

[Talon]

USDB was a stroke of freakin' brilliance -- a book that eases newcomers into the Hero System, while showing everyone what you can do with the rules. Whoever said it should have come out second after FREd was absolutely right...but it was so not the kind of book Hero would put out in the past. I wonder if it was on the schedule or if it took Steve and Co. a while to think of the idea.

 

I'll be infecting my D&D group with the Hero System at some point, and USDB will be a prime weapon in my arsenal.

 

As for "trivial" examples: I expected to see them in USDB, where they make sense. I didn't find that TUV or Star Hero had an excessive amount of such examples, so I don't expect to see too many in FH either.

[AnotherSkip]

Actually I see 3.5 as a _huge_ flop.

 

especially with the history behind T$R.

 

Most of the Mods are puny (woot woot now we have TWO count them TWO ways to build a ranger TWC OR Archer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! did i say Woot Woot? dont worry, ILL DO IT AGAIN ANYWAYS!!!! Woot Woot!)

 

90% of the stuff is in 3rd allready so why even bother? it is almost as ridiculous as the SR books (version 1.9 for 3rd edition Rulebook.)

 

just sell the flexibility and people will get the idea.

 

after all if you are going to spend the time to make mods for 3(.5)rd edition might as well build a campaign for the Hero System.

[Greatwyrm]

I thought I'd chip in with some insight from someone very new to HERO and a d20 die-hard.

 

First, all those examples are not padding. I'm sure some of you who have been with HERO since the beginning look right past them. For me, if the big black book hadn't had them, I never would have bought it. It's just that simple. It would have been like trying to learn a foreign language without those little tapes that let you hear what the phrase is really supposed to sound like. Sure, you can do it, but it's a lot easier with the tape.

 

Next, the size of the book, quality of the art, and level of crunchiness will not matter to the typical d20 gamer. For the most part, people play D&D/d20 because its 1) simple and 2) familiar. For most of those people, HERO appears to be neither. (Please note, I said "appears".) d20 is geared for people who like "plug and play" games. HERO appears to be more of a game for people who like to open the case and play with jumpers, at least as far as GMs go.

 

I really first became interested in HERO when I first heard about the 3.5 revision. I'm very happy with what I've found. I'm developing a new campaign for my group to begin playing in early next year. While it looks like most of the group is happy with the revision so far, I'm keeping the setting open mechanically so I can make the switch to HERO if we want to. It's basically going to be big changes like this or people just looking for a less cookie-cutter feel to their game that will bring people to HERO.

 

For example, the friendly competition ads with Champions and Silver Age Sentinels. I remember one where the Chamions guy says something like "and your powers work every time, just the way you want them to." That kind of customization, coupled with the fact that your abilities are limited only by your creativity and point budget, are the sorts of things that need to be brought to the front if you're trying to go after most d20 gamers.

 

Well, that and the fact the system isn't really that hard. Most of the resistance I've met with HERO is from people who remember people playing (what I assume were) previous editions, rolling carloads of dice to see if they could cross the street, and tracking the thousandths of each character point.

[buzz]

Originally posted by AnotherSkip

Actually I see 3.5 as a _huge_ flop.

 

especially with the history behind T$R.

 

Thankfully, TSR no longer has anything to do with D&D.

 

3.5e, like every edition if D&D, will sell tons of copies. It's only anecdotal evidence, but pretty much everyone in my d20 groups has pre-ordered copies of at least the 3.5e PHB.

[CleverName]

Originally posted by buzz

Thankfully, TSR no longer has anything to do with D&D.

 

Amen, brother.

 

3.5e, like every edition if D&D, will sell tons of copies. It's only anecdotal evidence, but pretty much everyone in my d20 groups has pre-ordered copies of at least the 3.5e PHB.

 

Yeah, if Another Skip is arguing that HERO and FH in particular are superior systems overall, I doubt you'd get much arguement on these boards - not from me at least.

 

If AS thinks that 3.5 is going to tank sales-wise or diminish the popularity of D&D/D20, well, it ain't going to happen. As Hans and Franz would say "Listen to me now; believe me later."

 

I doubt WotC will get the sales that they did for 3.0 up front, but it will still be huge and _constant_ seller.

 

This is starting to get too much into the d20 vs. Hero realm...blech. I play both, enjoy both and look forward to doing more of the same with both 3.5e and FH.

[buzz]

Originally posted by CleverName

This is starting to get too much into the d20 vs. Hero realm...blech. I play both, enjoy both and look forward to doing more of the same with both 3.5e and FH.

 

Amen right back at you.

[TheEmerged]

Actually, Buzz, I'm noticing something odd -- seems like everyone in the d20 camp is planning to buy the PlayHB. A *much* smaller group is planning to buy DMG3.5 or MM3.5.

[CleverName]

What's odd with that?

 

The 3.0 PHB already outsells the other core books by many, many multiples.

 

In my local group:

8 PHBs

3 DMGs

2 MMs

 

Personally, I would not be surprised if the PHB outsells the others by something closer to 6-8 to 1.

[Blue]

Originally posted by TheEmerged

Actually, Buzz, I'm noticing something odd -- seems like everyone in the d20 camp is planning to buy the PlayHB. A *much* smaller group is planning to buy DMG3.5 or MM3.5.

Ideally, for game groups that's how it should work. The DMG should only be necessary for DMs.

 

Of course in real world application you've always wound up needing all of the books.

[lemming]

Originally posted by CleverName

What's odd with that?

 

The 3.0 PHB already outsells the other core books by many, many multiples.

 

In my local group:

8 PHBs

3 DMGs

2 MMs

 

Personally, I would not be surprised if the PHB outsells the others by something closer to 6-8 to 1.

Everytime I see PHB I think Pointy Haired Boss.

(And yes I know what it actually means)

[buzz]

Originally posted by TheEmerged

Actually, Buzz, I'm noticing something odd -- seems like everyone in the d20 camp is planning to buy the PlayHB. A *much* smaller group is planning to buy DMG3.5 or MM3.5.

 

Like I said before, "at *least* the 3.5e PHB." And, as other have already said, the PHB tends to sell more in general.

 

My main point still stands: "A flop? Put down the crack pipe..."