Threnody Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 Howdy. I'm trying to understand the Disad "Age" when you're using "10-". I ain't planning no kid characters, it's just something that confuses me. The "Small Child" on page 223 ain't a help; it's just sold down all it's stats. What I'm trying to figure is what happens for example if you leave all the primary stats at 10. How'd you figure the cost? My only guess is you gotta sell down STR, CON, BODY, EGO, and PRE to the amounts on the chart, then buy 'em back up to 10, at double cost. Have I got it right? Or you pay nothing cause you ain't changed the stats? :confused: :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sociotard Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 Re: Aging kids Yeah, you have to sell everything down, then buy them back. Since it's all doubled, a straight 10's character with this disadvantage would cost *tries to do math in his head* 54 points or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 Re: Aging kids A character with NCM: 10 Yrs old or less costs 19 points to keep all stats at 10 (the cost is based off of the NCM, not "a base of 8"): STR 5pts CON 4pts BDY 4pts EGO 4pts PRE 2pts And they get 35pts in Disadvantages: NCM: 20pts, Age 10-: 15pts. If you want a child who doesn't have Characteristics Limitation you're looking at a Social Limitation: Kid (Very Frequently, Major is usual) 20pts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 Re: Aging kids I deeply resent the 'Age' disadvantage because: 1. The characteristics of a character should be a matter for proper design and build: I can not see that changing characteristic maxima adds anything at all to the game and tends to encourage abuse: if you want to play a character with lower physical stats and higher mental stats just make them older and get points for what you were going to do anyway. Not good. That is why racial package deals changed; they were a gateway for abuse. 2. The other aspects of the age disadvantage can better be modelled with social and physical limitations; there really seems to be no need for the disadvantage at all in the modern game. 4. Having recently turned 40, and not re-distributed any points at all, you'd have thought that I'd have suddenly gotten weak and shaky but a lot smarter. For one think my Maths skill should have improved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 Re: Aging kids You don't get Smarter ... you just get the potential to be smarter. You don't get weaker ... it just costs more to stay as strong (have to work out a little more or harder to maintain). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 Re: Aging kids I don't like the Age Disadvantages much either, but I like them better than I did in 4E. Why? You used to be able to buy your NCM up (at cost) or down (sell back at half cost). Was that a good thing? Probably not. But in any case the Age Disadvantages never added up to the cost of changing the NCM directly. The Disadvantage itself also didn't convey any other kind of flavor to make up for the difference. At least that inconsistency has been removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 Re: Aging kids Personally I also simulate age using Social and Physical Limitations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austenandrews Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 Re: Aging kids I agree. Age is a weak Disad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threnody Posted March 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 Re: Aging kids Sociotard, DustAngel---I hate to sound like a teacher, but could you both please "show your work"? Cause I ain't getting the same answer as neither of you. Please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sociotard Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 Re: Aging kids Can Do! Okay first find (10-limit) for all characteristics with a limit lower than 10: Str=10-5=5 Con=10-8=2 Bod=10-8=2 Ego=10-8=2 Pre=10-8=2 Now, Take Difference*Cost*2 (the cost of an attribute doubles when you exceed the age limit) STR:5*1*2=10 CON:2*2*2=8 BOD:2*2*2=8 EGO:2*2*2=8 PRE:2*1*2=4 Add them all up and I get . . . 38. Not 54. I got 54 because I did it in my head. And I shouldn't do things in my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 Re: Aging kids I used Hero Designer.. I don't have my book on me but.. I find that the Base stats for a Kid 10- is STR: 8 (or 7.5 ... it gives a cost of 5pts to get back to STR 10) CON: 9 (costs 4pts to get to 10) BOD: 9 (costs 4pts to get to 10) EGO: 9 (costs 4pts to get to 10) PRE: 9 (costs 2pts to get to 10) Which at 4 for 1 pt for CON/BOD/EGO = 4pts each to get from 9 to 10. PRE is now 2pts for 1 PRE, so it's 2pts to get back to 10PRE. The only thing throwing me off is the STR so I'll have to look that up when I get home this evening. Either I or Sociotard has the Base Characteristics wrong for someone with NCM: Age 10-, will have to check on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 Re: Aging kids Now, Take Difference*Cost*2 (the cost of an attribute doubles when you exceed the age limit) STR:5*1*2=10 CON:2*2*2=8 BOD:2*2*2=8 EGO:2*2*2=8 PRE:2*1*2=4 Umm...did you forget that the base values were 10? Essentially the normal cost of getting those Characteristics to 10 has already been paid, so I believe you should only have to pay the extra cost. I think you thus wanted Difference*Cost without the doubling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 Re: Aging kids Umm...did you forget that the base values were 10? Essentially the normal cost of getting those Characteristics to 10 has already been paid' date=' so I believe you should only have to pay the [i']extra[/i] cost. I think you thus wanted Difference*Cost without the doubling. Ah! That's why HeroDesigner costs it out to 19 when you select that Disad. I had also let that slip my brain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sociotard Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 Re: Aging kids Well I feel Stupid. I completely forgot to sell off the original point accumulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threnody Posted March 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 Re: Aging kids Can Do! Okay first find (10-limit) for all characteristics with a limit lower than 10: Str=10-5=5 Con=10-8=2 Bod=10-8=2 Ego=10-8=2 Pre=10-8=2 Now, Take Difference*Cost*2 (the cost of an attribute doubles when you exceed the age limit) STR:5*1*2=10 CON:2*2*2=8 BOD:2*2*2=8 EGO:2*2*2=8 PRE:2*1*2=4 Add them all up and I get . . . 38. Not 54. I got 54 because I did it in my head. And I shouldn't do things in my head. Been there, done that. It's OK, no harm done. I get the math for this part, it's the lowering from 10 to the kid's Nor. Char. Max. that I'm confused by. Do you get points for selling back or not? BTW: Kid Norcharmax! Righter of wrongs, doer of stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threnody Posted March 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 Re: Aging kids Ooops! Should a read the thread to the end. OK, so you do get to sell of the Char's that are above the kid's Nor. Char. Max. for points, and then spend double to raise them back to 10 (or anywhere else). Thanks everybody for helping me out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp9 Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 Re: Aging kids I deeply resent the 'Age' disadvantage because: 1. The characteristics of a character should be a matter for proper design and build: I can not see that changing characteristic maxima adds anything at all to the game and tends to encourage abuse: if you want to play a character with lower physical stats and higher mental stats just make them older and get points for what you were going to do anyway. Not good. That is why racial package deals changed; they were a gateway for abuse. 2. The other aspects of the age disadvantage can better be modelled with social and physical limitations; there really seems to be no need for the disadvantage at all in the modern game. 4. Having recently turned 40, and not re-distributed any points at all, you'd have thought that I'd have suddenly gotten weak and shaky but a lot smarter. For one think my Maths skill should have improved. Looking at your avatar, I can see that you are a floating head, and thus the whole "weak and shaky" thing is less noticable for you. On the math thing: I can see from the 1,2,4 numbering scheme above that there is still that problem with the number 3. But, fear not, there is more to math than simple counting, so perhaps things have improved on other fronts. . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 Re: Aging kids Looking at your avatar, I can see that you are a floating head, and thus the whole "weak and shaky" thing is less noticable for you. On the math thing: I can see from the 1,2,4 numbering scheme above that there is still that problem with the number 3. But, fear not, there is more to math than simple counting, so perhaps things have improved on other fronts. . . . Oooh. BURN! Don't tell that last part to the wrong mathematician, though; it might get you shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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