How would this be built?

[Morgdane]

how would you buy Rogue's draining power. I'm not worried about the knocking the other person out, but the gaining that person's mutation. I've got an idea involving a vpp, but I really hate using those. Any other ideas?

[David Johnston]

Re: How would this be built?

 

how would you buy Rogue's draining power. I'm not worried about the knocking the other person out' date=' but the gaining that person's mutation. I've got an idea involving a vpp, but I really hate using those. Any other ideas?[/quote']

 

Sorry. That's a Variable Power if ever I saw one. However, the Mimic pool is one of the least troublesome applications of VPP since there's no need for the player to make up the powers and he's limited by the powers other people have.

[Morgdane]

Re: How would this be built?

 

ok, so second part of the question, the player i'm running this for is wanting to copy more than one power at a time, currently we have a 60 active point limit on powers, as a GM, should I increase the vpp over 60 active to let him take more than 1-2 powers at a time?

[Steve Long]

Re: How would this be built?

 

For my take, see USPD pages 262-63.

[Dust Raven]

Re: How would this be built?

 

Yes, believe or not Morgdane, there is an official, published write-up of this kind of power already, which our good friend and game designer Steve Long has pointed out.

 

For my two cents, I'd recomend a small mimic VPP which buys a minimum value of each of the target's Powers, and has a Limitation: All Unadjusted Powers Have No In Game Value (-1, at least). Then buy a Transfer (all Mutant Powers at once to All Powers in the VPP at once), modified to taste (perhaps a Continuous Damage Shield that acts with normal HTH attacks, and Only With Flesh To Flesh Contact). The end result is that when the character touches someone, using the Transfer, the VPP Triggers and mimics each of the targets Powers. The Powers the VPP provides all count for 0 Active Points in them, so you only end up with the total Points transfered instead of the points transfered plus the points in the VPP.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How would this be built?

 

Rogue is a tough character to translate into a game because her powers border on "plot device". Normally, she makes contact once, the target is out and Rogue has absorbed all of their powers. When the plot calls for it, however, the opponent is resistant or immune to her powers, often with o real explanation.

 

In a game, this doesn't work nearly as well as it works in the comics. As a result, any design of her powers tends to suffer from one (or both) of two issues.

 

The first is that it's very expensive. And it should be - the ability to reliably remove an opponent from combat while duplicating all that opponent's abilities is a very powerful one.

 

The second is that it's not a perfect match - generally, in that it loses some of its reliability and/or its speed. Unlike the comics, these approaches often require several phases of contact to fully absorb the target's powers, and may be capped at a level below the full power of the target. The VPP approach, for example, hits the maximum points available within the VPP, while the Transfer approach hits the cap on points transferred.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: How would this be built?

 

For my two cents' date=' I'd recomend a small mimic VPP which buys a minimum value of each of the target's Powers, and has a Limitation: All Unadjusted Powers Have No In Game Value (-1, at least). Then buy a Transfer (all Mutant Powers at once to All Powers in the VPP at once), modified to taste (perhaps a Continuous Damage Shield that acts with normal HTH attacks, and Only With Flesh To Flesh Contact). The end result is that when the character touches someone, using the Transfer, the VPP Triggers and mimics each of the targets Powers. The Powers the VPP provides all count for 0 Active Points in them, so you only end up with the total Points transfered instead of the points transfered plus the points in the VPP.[/quote']

I played a character like this years ago (3rd Ed I think?), and it worked pretty well IIRC. At least I remember having fun. Expensive, tho - doesn't leave a lot of points for other stuff.

 

[Edit: Actually now that I think about it, I think we just built it as a straight Transfer with a huge variable advantage, but without the VPP. Probably wasn't book-legal back then; certainly wouldn't be today. Oh well.)

[David Johnston]

Re: How would this be built?

 

ok' date=' so second part of the question, the player i'm running this for is wanting to copy more than one power at a time, currently we have a 60 active point limit on powers, as a GM, should I increase the vpp over 60 active to let him take more than 1-2 powers at a time?[/quote']

 

Of course he is, the greedy so-and-so.

 

What he could do, maybe, is get a multipower in addition to his VPP with a bunch of the most common powers, with the advantage of "variable special effect", and limitation "only to mimic the powers of others".

[bigdamnhero]

Re: How would this be built?

 

ok' date=' so second part of the question, the player i'm running this for is wanting to copy more than one power at a time, currently we have a 60 active point limit on powers, as a GM, should I increase the vpp over 60 active to let him take more than 1-2 powers at a time?[/quote']

Seems like you could probably get away with increasing the VPP as long as there's a limitation on it that no individual power can have over 60 AP.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How would this be built?

 

Seems like you could probably get away with increasing the VPP as long as there's a limitation on it that no individual power can have over 60 AP.

 

That would be my approach. The VPP (or any framework) isn't really a power unto itself. It's a structure for holding powers.

 

Note that this approach will already make it tough for the character to fully duplicate other characters. They can't squish that Energy Projector's multipower into the VPP, so each power needs to occupy its full share of the VPP reserve. Duplicating FireLad's Elemental Control powers will also be tough or unattainable. Duplicating three or four characters' powers at once? forget it!

 

The USPD approach is the only one I've seen that has a hope of achieving those effects.

[David Johnston]

Re: How would this be built?

 

Yes, believe or not Morgdane, there is an official, published write-up of this kind of power already, which our good friend and game designer Steve Long has pointed out.

 

For my two cents, I'd recomend a small mimic VPP which buys a minimum value of each of the target's Powers, and has a Limitation: All Unadjusted Powers Have No In Game Value (-1, at least). Then buy a Transfer (all Mutant Powers at once to All Powers in the VPP at once), modified to taste (perhaps a Continuous Damage Shield that acts with normal HTH attacks, and Only With Flesh To Flesh Contact). The end result is that when the character touches someone, using the Transfer, the VPP Triggers and mimics each of the targets Powers. The Powers the VPP provides all count for 0 Active Points in them, so you only end up with the total Points transfered instead of the points transfered plus the points in the VPP.

 

 

Yeah, that works pretty well. I dismissed Transfer because it's prohibitive to drain so many different things, but combining it with a mimic gets around that limitation. Maybe a little fancier than would be to my taste. However my answer to Morgdane's question is "The Variable Power Pool would let you mimic any of the powers from your victim. It would just take you a phase to change, less if you get an advantage on your control cost. So effectively you'd have more than one of your victims powers. You just wouldn't be able to use more than one of them at a time. I advise you to get flight and a defense to go with your NND and Mimic pool so you won't have to."

[bigdamnhero]

Re: How would this be built?

 

Note that this approach will already make it tough for the character to fully duplicate other characters. They can't squish that Energy Projector's multipower into the VPP' date=' so each power needs to occupy its full share of the VPP reserve. Duplicating FireLad's Elemental Control powers will also be tough or unattainable. Duplicating three or four characters' powers at once? forget it![/quote']

Good point that. Like a lot of open-ended I-only-get-more-powerful! schticks, we may have to file this one under "works well in the source material, but..."

 

The USPD approach is the only one I've seen that has a hope of achieving those effects.

I don't have USPD handy, so correct me if I'm wrong. But doesn't that write-up only cover giving the mimic-er powers, not taking away the mimic-ee's powers? In other words, it doesn't include the Transfer part?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How would this be built?

 

I don't have USPD handy' date=' so correct me if I'm wrong. But doesn't that write-up only cover giving the mimic-er powers, not taking away the mimic-ee's powers? In other words, it doesn't include the Transfer part?[/quote']

 

I don't have it handy either, but I think it's combined with a Transform on the target, which KO's him for the duration (and, logically, can also remove his powers for the duration).

[Thia Halmades]

Re: How would this be built?

 

You can also do a PLUS HA (Only does STUN) to the Transfer proper. I mean regardless of how you do it, it's expensive. Also, I do not recall how the exact structure of a RAW VPP works - you may not get all the nifty advantages and disads when you transfer the power, I honestly don't recall. It may simply be a straight Energy Blast, without all of Cyclops' cool tricks on it. I'm unsure, I should look that up in the USPD.

 

Soon as I manage to get up.

 

 

 

 

Any day now....

[prestidigitator]

Re: How would this be built?

 

For my take' date=' see USPD pages 262-63.[/quote']

I believe you've also mentioned before an Adder or Advantage for Transfer from DEMON that allows it to grant Powers....