Cumulative to the Max

[Lucius]

I'm designing a power with cumulative that will be able to go up to 96 total pts.

 

Mental powers already have rules for limitations if they are required to do a certain "minimum effect." i.e. if Telepathy must try for "undetectable" (A +20 EGO effect) I think it's a -3/4 limit.

 

What would be an appropriate limit if a cumulative power does not take any effect until it hits max? or, say half max?

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

And an Uncontrolled Cumulative Palindromedary

[Dust Raven]

Re: Cumulative to the Max

 

So basically if you have Telepathy 8d6 Cumulative (x2, 96 points), but it doesn't have any effect at all until you actually reach the max of 96, what is the value for that Limitation?

 

I'm not sure. Off the top of my head I'd think to equate it to the Extra Time Limitation, but not sure if that's accurate. I'm also not sure if this kind of mechanic is really worth using. What's it for, the SFX of what you are simulating I mean?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Cumulative to the Max

 

So it can only be used to go for its maximum? To me, that would depend on the maximum, and how many extra attacks you're likely to have to make on a typical target beyond the number that would normally be required to achieve a typically desirable level of effect. It bears noting that exceeding that level of effect is advantageous, as it reduces breakout rolls, so I would err on the side of a lower, rather than a higher, limitation.

[Utech]

Re: Cumulative to the Max

 

I think what you've described is best handled by the Standard Effect Rule applied to a power with the Extra Time Limitation.

 

If you really want to go with a mental power that is Cumulative, does nothing until it reaches the level you want and is able to become undetectable, I'd say you've got yourself an Advantage, not a Limitation. As long as the target is not aware that he is being attacked this is a pretty sweet deal for your character. I'd call it roughly equal to the Advantage, Invisible Power Effects at the +1/2 level.

 

If the target is fully aware that he is being attacked then I'd say it is worth something. Depending on how often mental powers show up in your game it could be worth anywhere from -1/4 to -100.

[Robyn]

Re: Cumulative to the Max

 

I'm designing a power with cumulative that will be able to go up to 96 total pts.

 

Mental powers already have rules for limitations if they are required to do a certain "minimum effect." i.e. if Telepathy must try for "undetectable" (A +20 EGO effect) I think it's a -3/4 limit.

 

What would be an appropriate limit if a cumulative power does not take any effect until it hits max? or, say half max?

 

Do you mean, it does not add the roll of the dice to its effect until you roll half the maximum? Or that it adds regardless, but does not do anything until the total meets/exceeds half the maximum?

[Lucius]

Re: Cumulative to the Max

 

I think what you've described is best handled by the Standard Effect Rule applied to a power with the Extra Time Limitation. .

 

Uh, that would only mean I have to use the Extra Time Limitation every time I use the power. Not that I could spend that time to keep using the power, but it only takes effect at a certain time.

 

If you really want to go with a mental power that is Cumulative' date=' does nothing until it reaches the level you want and is able to become undetectable, I'd say you've got yourself an Advantage, not a Limitation. .[/quote']

 

Well, yes, I’ve got the Advantages of Cumulative, Increased Max, and Invisible Power Effects. Now I’m wondering what kind of limitation it is if the attack has NO EFFECT until it hits a certain threshold – maybe even until it hits max.

 

The concept could apply to other powers as well, like a Drain that does not take effect until after several applications.

 

As long as the target is not aware that he is being attacked this is a pretty sweet deal for your character.

 

Well, except for the time investment. The power also has a “Must wait 1 turn between rolls” limit. (not the same as Extra Time, he can do other things during the turn, he just has to wait before using the power again on the same target or targets.) And it’s only 1d6 effect. And the power also has Extra Time, 1 minute to set up for the first use. So that’s a long wait to hit 96. Granted that’s still a total of around 6 minutes, but that’s about 5 minutes more than my character would want to spend within a thousand meters of these things if weren’t for his insatiable curiosity. Well, and his sense of outrage.

 

I'm not sure. Off the top of my head I'd think to equate it to the Extra Time Limitation, but not sure if that's accurate. I'm also not sure if this kind of mechanic is really worth using. What's it for, the SFX of what you are simulating I mean?

 

I’d hesitate to say there’s a mechanic that’s not worth using to someone, at sometime. Want to see how many DIFFERENT ways I can think of to justify Stunning an Automaton? But to answer the question -

 

My character has learned that the Momzer Robots AKA Cyclopeans (which I understand are based on some kind of mutant-hunting robot in X-Men, but I don’t read comics so I don’t know the originals) are constantly broadcasting and receiving on certain radio frequencies. He hopes to tap into these broadcasts and exploit them for the mechanical equivalent of Telepathy (he knows what they’re doing and what’s happening to them because they’re constantly informing one another, and by transmitting a query in the right code on the right frequency, he may even tap into their memories) and perhaps eventually hack into them with Mental Illusions (“Unit 11001011, your sensors are faulty. Shut down sensor and routine radio reception/transmission functions, and accept input only on this frequency and with these authorization codes …” transmitted of course as a 9 nanosecond condensed burst ) and Mind Control (“Unit 11001011, cease transmission. Target Unit 11001100 and attack until target is completely deactivated, then delete from memory all data from 1 second prior to this command to 5 seconds after confirmed deactivation of Unit 11001100….”)

 

I’m assuming that, as a security measure, identification and authorization codes change frequently, so that hacking a particular robot once may not help in a second encounter. I.E. each time I’ll have to go through the process of learning the frequencies and codes in use as simulated by Extra Time plus Cumulative rolls. As for why it may be necessary to hit a “threshold,” well, consider how I described the Mental Illusions power. Maybe it’s not possible to make that work at all unless it works absolutely, completely replacing normal sensor input?

 

However, I’m also curious about the more abstract idea. I mean, while playing around with this one, it occurred to me that other powers with Cumulative could also have such a limitation, so if anyone has ideas I’m interested in other possibilities besides what my character is up to in-game right now. Especially if anyone has actually used such a construction before?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Palindromedary Based on CON

[prestidigitator]

Re: Cumulative to the Max

 

Well' date=' yes, I’ve got the Advantages of Cumulative, Increased Max, and Invisible Power Effects. Now I’m wondering what kind of limitation it is if the attack has NO EFFECT until it hits a certain threshold – maybe even until it hits max.[/quote']

Well, that's the way Mental Powers with the Cumulative Advantage already work (5ER p. 120), except that the target is aware of the attack. So I'd say on a Mental Power it would be a partial Invisible Power Effects Advantage. Perhaps take it at half value because the effects become apparent (as they would normally) once the effect threshold is reached.

The concept could apply to other powers as well, like a Drain that does not take effect until after several applications.

For other powers, I'd say take the same tact. The above version of IPE should require that no effects take place until a cumulative threshold is reached (or at best make it an additional -0). If the subject is aware of the attack, on the other hand, for non-Mental Powers I'd say it's probably worth a -1/4 at best.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Cumulative to the Max

 

I’d hesitate to say there’s a mechanic that’s not worth using to someone, at sometime. Want to see how many DIFFERENT ways I can think of to justify Stunning an Automaton? But to answer the question -

 

My character has learned that the Momzer Robots AKA Cyclopeans (which I understand are based on some kind of mutant-hunting robot in X-Men, but I don’t read comics so I don’t know the originals) are constantly broadcasting and receiving on certain radio frequencies. He hopes to tap into these broadcasts and exploit them for the mechanical equivalent of Telepathy (he knows what they’re doing and what’s happening to them because they’re constantly informing one another, and by transmitting a query in the right code on the right frequency, he may even tap into their memories) and perhaps eventually hack into them with Mental Illusions (“Unit 11001011, your sensors are faulty. Shut down sensor and routine radio reception/transmission functions, and accept input only on this frequency and with these authorization codes …†transmitted of course as a 9 nanosecond condensed burst ) and Mind Control (“Unit 11001011, cease transmission. Target Unit 11001100 and attack until target is completely deactivated, then delete from memory all data from 1 second prior to this command to 5 seconds after confirmed deactivation of Unit 11001100….â€)

 

I’m assuming that, as a security measure, identification and authorization codes change frequently, so that hacking a particular robot once may not help in a second encounter. I.E. each time I’ll have to go through the process of learning the frequencies and codes in use as simulated by Extra Time plus Cumulative rolls. As for why it may be necessary to hit a “threshold,†well, consider how I described the Mental Illusions power. Maybe it’s not possible to make that work at all unless it works absolutely, completely replacing normal sensor input?

 

However, I’m also curious about the more abstract idea. I mean, while playing around with this one, it occurred to me that other powers with Cumulative could also have such a limitation, so if anyone has ideas I’m interested in other possibilities besides what my character is up to in-game right now. Especially if anyone has actually used such a construction before?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Palindromedary Based on CON

 

Off the top of my head, I'd say just use HRRP and Computer Programming/Security Systems, probably with some appropriate PS/SS/Cryptography rolls as Complimentary. Make it simple.

 

If you'd rather use Mental Powers (or if your GM prefers/requires), I'm not sure the total roll requirement is at all appropriate. As it is, you are still trying to hack into certain robots, and whether or not you succeed will still be based on the level of effect versus the target's EGO (or INT)+ Mental Defense.

 

It seems that you just want to add in a minimum time for success, simulating some required minimum time it takes to hack in. My question is, is that really necessary? Assuming it is (and assuming I'm assuming correctly), you could probably do that with something like a Required Number Of Attacks Limitation. That way, instead of it being based on the rolls you are making, it's based on the time it takes to achieve the total.

[Lucius]

Re: Cumulative to the Max

 

Off the top of my head, I'd say just use HRRP and Computer Programming/Security Systems, probably with some appropriate PS/SS/Cryptography rolls as Complimentary. Make it simple.

 

If you'd rather use Mental Powers (or if your GM prefers/requires), I'm not sure the total roll requirement is at all appropriate. As it is, you are still trying to hack into certain robots, and whether or not you succeed will still be based on the level of effect versus the target's EGO (or INT)+ Mental Defense.

 

It seems that you just want to add in a minimum time for success, simulating some required minimum time it takes to hack in. My question is, is that really necessary? Assuming it is (and assuming I'm assuming correctly), you could probably do that with something like a Required Number Of Attacks Limitation. That way, instead of it being based on the rolls you are making, it's based on the time it takes to achieve the total.

 

Heh. Maybe you're right. My character has High Range Radio Perception & Transmission, Computer Programming, and Security Systems. But I'm not sure I can get away without actually statting out a power....

 

I'm not trying to be critical of them, but I don't think the people I'm gaming with think in terms of using skills a lot. My character is the only one who HAS significant skills, I think. The usual attitude seems to be load up on powers, and tack on a handful of skills as an afterthought.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary notes the exceptions - martial arts and skill levels.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Cumulative to the Max

 

I'm not trying to be critical of them, but I don't think the people I'm gaming with think in terms of using skills a lot. My character is the only one who HAS significant skills, I think. The usual attitude seems to be load up on powers, and tack on a handful of skills as an afterthought.

 

I can certainly understand that philosophy. In many superheroic games, any kind of skills take a back seat to action packed beams of light and superhuman strength. Who cares if the little guy can pick a lock when you can just crush it?