Battlestar galactica pistols.

[Guest Schwarzwald]

I love the pistols on the new BSG series that have the 4mm caseless exploding ammo on full autofire plus the 10mm mini grenade launcher under the 4mm barrell.

 

I might make my first hero project designing one of these beasts, as anyone done it yet? I'm certain the smaller ammo explodes from that ep where baltar shot that one guy in the back of the neck, and they showed a hole in his spacesuit with the edges curles outward and smoke coming from the hole.

[keithcurtis]

Re: Battlestar galactica pistols.

 

From what I understand from the 1st season ep where they were invaded by several Centurions, the exploding ammo is optional and not general issue. At least not while on board ship.

 

Keith "as far as I am concerned, all guns just go 'bang!' and break or kill things" Curtis

[Guest Schwarzwald]

Re: Battlestar galactica pistols.

 

Well, there were two weapons in that pistol.

 

One was about a 5mm round that had a tiny amount of explosive that was outrageously powerful for it's size. (I assume they have soe 'tylium' based explosive technology as tylium seems to be an awfully potent fuel and might spin off some unholy explosives.)

 

Those would generally not take down a heavy duty centurion like the ones that boarded the big G in that ep.

 

The 10mm underbarrel launcher was a seperate, single shot, manual reload weapon that could turn a centurion into scrap.

[Matt Frisbee]

Re: Battlestar galactica pistols.

 

A 4mm pistol with explosive warheads? What are Cylons made of these days, mylar-covered paper mache? There's a reason why the US Army is abandoning the Barretta 9mm and going back to the M1911 .45 ACP -- stopping power. You shoot it, it falls down. That's also why they love the M2 .50 caliber MG (and the .50 caliber sniper rifle) -- it shoots through walls with enough energy to kill whoever is on the other side.

 

Yeah, I know it's science fiction (or space opera fantasy, if you like), but if we're going that far into the genre, why not just use laser pistols? From a realism standpoint, it's about the same.

 

Matt "Stickler" Frisbee

[starblaze]

Re: Battlestar galactica pistols.

 

A 4mm pistol with explosive warheads? What are Cylons made of these days, mylar-covered paper mache? There's a reason why the US Army is abandoning the Barretta 9mm and going back to the M1911 .45 ACP -- stopping power. You shoot it, it falls down. That's also why they love the M2 .50 caliber MG (and the .50 caliber sniper rifle) -- it shoots through walls with enough energy to kill whoever is on the other side.

 

Yeah, I know it's science fiction (or space opera fantasy, if you like), but if we're going that far into the genre, why not just use laser pistols? From a realism standpoint, it's about the same.

 

Matt "Stickler" Frisbee

 

Where did you here about the US Army going back to the Collt .45? Do you have an article about it?

[The_Patriot]

Re: Battlestar galactica pistols.

 

I made the pistol for the BSG Hero sourcebook I'm working on. Here's the stats on it.

 

Cost Powers END

 

15 Colonial Standard Sidearm w/ Explosive Launcher: Multipower, 44-point reserve, +2 PER Mod, (41 Active Points); STR Minimum 1-5 (STR Min. Cannot Add/Subtract Damage; -3/4); all slots OAF (-1)

1u 1) 5.7x28mm Barrel: Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6, 4 clips of 20 Charges (+1/4) (19 Active Points); OAF (-1), -1 Decreased STUN Multiplier (-1/4), Reduced By Range (-1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4)

1u 2) 15mm Explosive Launcher: Killing Attack - Ranged 1 1/2d6, Explosion (+1/2), Nonselective Target (-1/4), Armor Piercing (+1/2) (44 Active Points); 8 clips of 1 Charge (-1), OAF (-1), Real Weapon (-1/4)

0u 3) Watertight: Custom Power ; OAF (-1)

1u 4) Flash Suppressor: Invisibility to Sight Group , Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (30 Active Points); OAF (-1)

1u 5) Barrel Coating and Improved Bedding: +1 with Ranged Combat (5 Active Points); IIF (-1/4), Required Hands One-And-A-Half-Handed (-1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4)

 

It seems that, in the second season of the RDM series, the original sidearms have been completely replaced by the Fabrique Nationale Five-seveN, also dressed up with an underbarrel explosive launcher. (This changeover allows for real semi-automatic fire and makes use of the Vancouver studio's existing stores of 5.7mm (FN P-90) blank ammunition.)

[Guest Schwarzwald]

Re: Battlestar galactica pistols.

 

A 4mm pistol with explosive warheads? What are Cylons made of these days, mylar-covered paper mache? There's a reason why the US Army is abandoning the Barretta 9mm and going back to the M1911 .45 ACP -- stopping power. You shoot it, it falls down. That's also why they love the M2 .50 caliber MG (and the .50 caliber sniper rifle) -- it shoots through walls with enough energy to kill whoever is on the other side.

 

Yeah, I know it's science fiction (or space opera fantasy, if you like), but if we're going that far into the genre, why not just use laser pistols? From a realism standpoint, it's about the same.

 

Matt "Stickler" Frisbee

 

I'd guessed they were 4mm, it turns out they may be 5.xx after all.

 

While small, the rounds do explode, as seen in 'kobold's last gleaming' so they do more damamge but still can't stop a centurion, at least not the HD ones that got onboard the galactica. I assume they have some superior explosives to what we do today, and guess they might be tylium based.

[The_Patriot]

Re: Battlestar galactica pistols.

 

I'd guessed they were 4mm, it turns out they may be 5.xx after all.

 

While small, the rounds do explode, as seen in 'kobold's last gleaming' so they do more damamge but still can't stop a centurion, at least not the HD ones that got onboard the galactica. I assume they have some superior explosives to what we do today, and guess they might be tylium based.

There are two models of Cylon Centurions. One model is the original and is lightly armored so the regular round from the pistol can take them out easy. The second model is heavily armored and requires a the grenade launcher to take them out.

 

The Cylon Centurions may also have different armors. For instance, a small number of them wreaked havoc when boarding Galactica, and could only be destroyed using explosive rounds (Valley of Darkness).

Centurions encountered on Caprica reacted more slowly, acted less intelligently, and were more easily destroyed by small arms fire. This may be due to the Cylons' plans for Helo and the copy of Sharon Valerii with him; killing them would render their experiments worthless. A similiar group of Centurions found on Kobol during the episode Fragged were equally less individually intelligent. It may be that these Centurions are very simple soldiers that, despite their menacing statistics, are limited in their evolution and programming. Centurians are not sentient, and are not downloaded upon destruction.

[Matt Frisbee]

Re: Battlestar galactica pistols.

 

Where did you here about the US Army going back to the Collt .45? Do you have an article about it?

 

Not an article per se, but video I have watched from a relative who was in Iraq recently, showed those persons in his transportation unit who were authorized to carry a pistol had M1911's. One officer made the comment that he'd tried using the Barretta 9mm, and he preferred the .45 ACP. He (my relative) had commented that MP units were also requesting a return to the M1911 in the same video.

 

Matt "Believe-me-or-not" Frisbee

[Guest Schwarzwald]

Re: Battlestar galactica pistols.

 

Not an article per se, but video I have watched from a relative who was in Iraq recently, showed those persons in his transportation unit who were authorized to carry a pistol had M1911's. One officer made the comment that he'd tried using the Barretta 9mm, and he preferred the .45 ACP. He (my relative) had commented that MP units were also requesting a return to the M1911 in the same video.

 

Matt "Believe-me-or-not" Frisbee

 

 

 

Police departments in LA an NYC are also switching away from the standard 9mm, either upgrading to a 9mm magnum or a 10mm. My local police avoided the 9mm and went with the .41 cal size.

 

The 9mm has failed to stop psychopaths and people on serious drugs too often.

[Zeropoint]

Re: Battlestar galactica pistols.

 

The Browning Hi-Power is an excellent gun, a true classic, but I didn't even consider getting one until I discovered they were available in .40 S&W.

[Inu]

Re: Battlestar galactica pistols.

 

Comparing calibres with today's technology is useless. They're using different metals, different explosives, different projectile method...

 

I'd assume that the 4mm projectiles are designed to penetrate, then explode, thus creating a much bigger wound cavity than would normally be created by a 4mm projectile, giving far greater takedown capability than a non-explosive round, while taking a huge clip capacity (since hitting someone multiple times is generally better than hitting them once, no matter what size bullet you're using).

 

I can see this as an extremely viable round. The explosive charge could be set to go off a split-second after penetrating, thus making them equally effective against armoured and non-armoured targets. I'd wager they aren't good at penetrating all armours (if vests were useless, I can't see that soldiers would bother slowing themselves down with the heavy vests they're shown with in the series). This would indicate that centurions could easily be made to withstand the shots, though ones that heavily armoured might be slower (or require more servos to move them quickly, making them more expensive to manufacture -- excellent special forces, but with weaker models for general comat).

 

And when it comes down to it, despite its hard sci fi image, BSG is space opera. There is no hard sci fi reason for dogfighting Vipers, but it looks great, so we get that. I'm content with coming up with vaguely plausible ideas where necessary to supplement the areas that have solid explanations.

[The_Patriot]

Re: Battlestar galactica pistols.

 

Comparing calibres with today's technology is useless. They're using different metals, different explosives, different projectile method...

 

I'd assume that the 4mm projectiles are designed to penetrate, then explode, thus creating a much bigger wound cavity than would normally be created by a 4mm projectile, giving far greater takedown capability than a non-explosive round, while taking a huge clip capacity (since hitting someone multiple times is generally better than hitting them once, no matter what size bullet you're using).

 

I can see this as an extremely viable round. The explosive charge could be set to go off a split-second after penetrating, thus making them equally effective against armoured and non-armoured targets. I'd wager they aren't good at penetrating all armours (if vests were useless, I can't see that soldiers would bother slowing themselves down with the heavy vests they're shown with in the series). This would indicate that centurions could easily be made to withstand the shots, though ones that heavily armoured might be slower (or require more servos to move them quickly, making them more expensive to manufacture -- excellent special forces, but with weaker models for general comat).

 

And when it comes down to it, despite its hard sci fi image, BSG is space opera. There is no hard sci fi reason for dogfighting Vipers, but it looks great, so we get that. I'm content with coming up with vaguely plausible ideas where necessary to supplement the areas that have solid explanations.

 

The problem with your thinking is that in BSG Ronald Moore decided that they would be using modern or slightly outdated real world equipment for the universe. Meaning that they're using real weapons and following what we've developed in the way of bullets etc... Even the starfighters follow scientific principles. BSG doesn't rely upon technobabble to make things work since the writers use Newtonian, Euclidian, and Einstien's scientific principles. The only item that isn't real world in the show is Tylium. It's also not that all that hard to believe that firearms development was nearly identical to ours which explains why they use such weapons as the P90 and FN FiveSeven pistol.

[Matt Frisbee]

Re: Battlestar galactica pistols.

 

Comparing calibres with today's technology is useless. They're using different metals' date=' different explosives, different projectile method...[/quote']

 

Then what's the point of making realistic weaponry in the series? Robocop tried selling people on the idea of micro-sizing munitions so an over-sized pistol could carry a hundred rounds, but the only weapon to pull it off was Colico's helix magazine on a .22 pistol, and even that made it more of an SMG than a pistol. On the plus side, it did help stablize the weapon, but loading the magazine was a real pain.

 

I'd assume that the 4mm projectiles are designed to penetrate' date=' then explode, thus creating a much bigger wound cavity than would normally be created by a 4mm projectile, giving far greater takedown capability than a non-explosive round, while taking a huge clip capacity (since hitting someone multiple times is generally better than hitting them once, no matter what size bullet you're using).[/quote']

 

In a life-or-death firefight, the only munition smaller than a .38 wadcutter that's worth a damn is the antipersonnel fletchettes the army tried in the 12-guage shells for the CAWS. They had excellent penetration ability, including being able to slip through the mesh of a non-reinforced kevlar vest, and were wicked nasty on human flesh due to the fletchettes' tendency to deform into flesh-shreading hooks as they passed through.

 

Unless your 4mm round is longer than average so it carries more mass, it will not carry enough energy to the target to penetrate, meaning your explosive head (even if its some sort of shaped charge) will detonate on the surface of whatever it hits. Of course, this being science-fiction, we could say the bullet uses electrothermal enhancement or high pressure liquid propellent, or could be some sort of chemically powered micro massdriver. Problem is, it looks like a gun, it fires like a gun, it sounds like a gun, so it probably is some sort of ultramodern firearm.

 

I can see this as an extremely viable round. The explosive charge could be set to go off a split-second after penetrating' date=' thus making them equally effective against armoured and non-armoured targets. I'd wager they aren't good at penetrating all armours (if vests were useless, I can't see that soldiers would bother slowing themselves down with the heavy vests they're shown with in the series). This would indicate that centurions could easily be made to withstand the shots, though ones that heavily armoured might be slower (or require more servos to move them quickly, making them more expensive to manufacture -- excellent special forces, but with weaker models for general comat).[/quote']

 

I don't know if things have changed since I was in the army, (but they probably have) but the combat armor I had to wear was designed to stop shell fragments, not bullets. It was presumed in the those days that anyone who was getting shot at would have the good sense to find cover. The rest of your logic in the previous paragraph is pretty solid, though. And yeah, if it was my *** out there, I would wear as much as I could stand.

 

And when it comes down to it' date=' despite its hard sci fi image, BSG is space opera. There is no hard sci fi reason for dogfighting Vipers, but it looks great, so we get that. I'm content with coming up with vaguely plausible ideas where necessary to supplement the areas that have solid explanations.[/quote']

 

I like what they've done with Vipers, too. I also like the fact that they actually use an RCS to maneuver. And while I agree with BSG being space opera, I don't want it to lose the hard edge. Admittedly, you didn't see it much in the original series, but you can't have a completely happy-go-lucky series about the destruction of a society, though they relied on the happy ending far too much. The current series is serious fun.

 

All that being said, I believe in plausable technology. Given that Vipers use chain guns or gattling cannon to get the job done, I would think that reasonably conventional weaponry would be part of the inventory at the personal level as well. (IMHO, which is just as valid as yours. )

 

Anyway, I'll wait for the technical manual to see what exactly the deal is.

 

Matt "Still-a-stickler" Frisbee

[Inu]

Re: Battlestar galactica pistols.

 

The problem with your thinking is that in BSG Ronald Moore decided that they would be using modern or slightly outdated real world equipment for the universe. Meaning that they're using real weapons and following what we've developed in the way of bullets etc... Even the starfighters follow scientific principles. BSG doesn't rely upon technobabble to make things work since the writers use Newtonian' date=' Euclidian, and Einstien's scientific principles. The only item that isn't real world in the show is Tylium. It's also not that all that hard to believe that firearms development was nearly identical to ours which explains why they use such weapons as the P90 and FN FiveSeven pistol.[/quote']

They're largely going on the look and feel of modern technology, but personally, I'd find it less realistic if they were using nothing but modern real-world tech. As for the explosive qualities, I was going off an earlier post that stated that they had explosive capability.

 

As for the scientific principles the series follows... it follows scientific principles as far as look and feel goes. That is, it has the verisimilitude of hard scifi, but clearly isn't. They just don't offer explanations for things like Trek did. More of B5's approach (where the vast majority of things had no names, let alone explanations), but with less whiz-bangery to stand out. So all I'm really doing is supplying some of that explanation. I'm not saying it's how the series actually does work, just trying to show possibilities.

[Inu]

Re: Battlestar galactica pistols.

 

Then what's the point of making realistic weaponry in the series? Robocop tried selling people on the idea of micro-sizing munitions so an over-sized pistol could carry a hundred rounds, but the only weapon to pull it off was Colico's helix magazine on a .22 pistol, and even that made it more of an SMG than a pistol. On the plus side, it did help stablize the weapon, but loading the magazine was a real pain.

 

In a life-or-death firefight, the only munition smaller than a .38 wadcutter that's worth a damn is the antipersonnel fletchettes the army tried in the 12-guage shells for the CAWS. They had excellent penetration ability, including being able to slip through the mesh of a non-reinforced kevlar vest, and were wicked nasty on human flesh due to the fletchettes' tendency to deform into flesh-shreading hooks as they passed through.

 

Unless your 4mm round is longer than average so it carries more mass, it will not carry enough energy to the target to penetrate, meaning your explosive head (even if its some sort of shaped charge) will detonate on the surface of whatever it hits. Of course, this being science-fiction, we could say the bullet uses electrothermal enhancement or high pressure liquid propellent, or could be some sort of chemically powered micro massdriver. Problem is, it looks like a gun, it fires like a gun, it sounds like a gun, so it probably is some sort of ultramodern firearm.

As stated above, simply because the firearms (and tech in general) have the look and feel of modern weapons, doesn't necessarily mean they are. I've heard RDM variously quoted as talking about the construction and feel of weapons, but haven't heard him definitively state 'the weapons on the show have only the capabilities and technology level of modern firearms.' If it were the case, I'd find that disappointing, considering the far-future tech we see in other areas. It would be a standout area. Besides, the large-calibre explosive rounds are far beyond modern tech, so that's one instance in firearms where scifi enters the arena... it would be extremely odd if it were the only item of high tech present there.

 

Therefore, even if it looks and feels like a modern weapon, it may well be something else entirely. The sound, to my ears, isn't anything like a gunpowder explosion from a modern weapon (except in movies). It sounded far more like an energy weapon, and it wasn't until we saw evidence otherwise in the series that I was convinced they WERE projectile weapons. With their nature as projectiles canon now, the nature of the projetiles and propellant is still up for grabs. If we're looking at small rounds, they may well be long and dense, patterned after the FN pistol/submachinegun rounds (5.7x28mm, designed to penetrate and tumble).

 

As I said before, I'm not trying to say what the series DOES use, just positing other options. I'm sorry if I came across as dismissive, but I'm trying to keep the discussion open instead of closing off lines of enquiry simply by over-referencing modern munitions.

I don't know if things have changed since I was in the army, (but they probably have) but the combat armor I had to wear was designed to stop shell fragments, not bullets. It was presumed in the those days that anyone who was getting shot at would have the good sense to find cover. The rest of your logic in the previous paragraph is pretty solid, though. And yeah, if it was my *** out there, I would wear as much as I could stand.

Modern vests seem to be able to defeat rifle rounds, and there are ones in production (just not general issue) that can stop 7.62mmAP rounds. Furthermore, the kind of combat we see the marines getting into is far different to open-field army combat. In the tight corridors of a Battlestar, I can see that bullets will be the primary threat they face (just like a SWAT team). In that environment, if the vest I wear is useless against bullets, I may prefer to keep my agility. However, if the vest will even slow down bullets (turning a lethal hit into a disabling one that can be treated), I'm gonna wear that vest, thanks. As you say, it's my **** out there, and I'd rather come home alive. If wearing the vest increases my survivability, I wear it. If it decreases it... it'll be hard to let the vest go, but it'd be the best way.

I like what they've done with Vipers, too. I also like the fact that they actually use an RCS to maneuver. And while I agree with BSG being space opera, I don't want it to lose the hard edge. Admittedly, you didn't see it much in the original series, but you can't have a completely happy-go-lucky series about the destruction of a society, though they relied on the happy ending far too much. The current series is serious fun.

Yah, I love the RCS and similar systems. But neither of us is under the illusion that such hand-waves in the direction of hard sci fi transform Vipers into realistic weapons platforms. I find them a lot more fun than realistic weapons platforms, however, in a character-centric series.

All that being said, I believe in plausable technology. Given that Vipers use chain guns or gattling cannon to get the job done, I would think that reasonably conventional weaponry would be part of the inventory at the personal level as well. (IMHO, which is just as valid as yours. )

 

Anyway, I'll wait for the technical manual to see what exactly the deal is.

I guess the difference is what 'reasonably conventional' means as regards personal weaponry. I see high-density, explosive-packed rounds launched by ECT or other form of projectile as being not too far-future... thus, more or less conventional. At least, not particularly scifi (and a lot 'harder' than the Vipers themselves). It would fit the look and feel of real firearms, while giving a significant extra edge to the gunman. I like the idea, but I can see why others would want to work with purely modern weaponry. I just like to keep the options open.

[The_Patriot]

Re: Battlestar galactica pistols.

 

They're largely going on the look and feel of modern technology, but personally, I'd find it less realistic if they were using nothing but modern real-world tech. As for the explosive qualities, I was going off an earlier post that stated that they had explosive capability.

 

As for the scientific principles the series follows... it follows scientific principles as far as look and feel goes. That is, it has the verisimilitude of hard scifi, but clearly isn't. They just don't offer explanations for things like Trek did. More of B5's approach (where the vast majority of things had no names, let alone explanations), but with less whiz-bangery to stand out. So all I'm really doing is supplying some of that explanation. I'm not saying it's how the series actually does work, just trying to show possibilities.

 

That they are and there is no disputing it. However, my point has always been that the round fired from the pistol's main barrel isn't an explosive round. The explosive round comes from the under barrel which is a 15mm grenade launcher minimum. I asked one of my friends that's a firearms manufacturer about the pistol used by the Colonial military in the series. She said going from the pictures of the weapon that they are a double barrel weapon with the upper barrel being a regular pistol barrel and the lower barrel being a single shot grenade launcher. Remember the episode where the Cylon centurions boarded the Galactica? The Colonials fired the explosive rounds from the lower barrel and they had to reload after every shot which is what made it tense because Lee had to take time to reload. If the rounds from the main barrel were explosive then the Colonials wouldn't have had to reload after a single shot.

[Matt Frisbee]

Re: Battlestar galactica pistols.

 

This is directed toward Inu...

 

Okay, yeah, I can see the point you're trying to make (finally), especially with some input from The Patriot as well.

 

To that end, an over-under pistol is plausable with a conventional weapon combined with a single-shot grenade launcher, though guys with small hands like mine might have some problems hanging onto the thing. I still remember when a friend of mine let me try out a .357 Magnum Desert Eagle pistol -- I couldn't get a grip I was comfortable enough to pull the trigger, and could only hook the last joint of my middle finger around the trigger. After watching him fire a few wrist-battering rounds from the thing, I was glad I passed. . .

 

Matt "Not-that-much-of-a-gun-expert-after-all" Frisbee

[Lisa Nadazdy]

Re: Battlestar galactica pistols.

 

Something to keep in mind- by the time of the miniseries and the full series, the Cylons hadn't been seen for nearly 40 years, and most people thought they were gone for good by that time. Only a few thought they were still a threat, but they didn't make policy in the colonies. It's easy to imagine that weapons had changed to deal with the more immediate and realistic threat- other humans. The standard sidearm ammunition might have been considered quite sufficient in dealing with a more-or-less human enemy. When the Cylons returned, they had redesigned Centurian models that standard ammunition was incapable of dealing with.

[Guest Schwarzwald]

Re: Battlestar galactica pistols.

 

Something to keep in mind- by the time of the miniseries and the full series' date=' the Cylons hadn't been seen for nearly 40 years, and most people thought they were gone for good by that time. Only a few thought they were still a threat, but they didn't make policy in the colonies. It's easy to imagine that weapons had changed to deal with the more immediate and realistic threat- other humans. The standard sidearm ammunition might have been considered quite sufficient in dealing with a more-or-less human enemy. When the Cylons returned, they had redesigned Centurian models that standard ammunition was incapable of dealing with.[/quote']

 

Excellent thinking. Rep earned.

 

I think there was SOME knowledge of the cylons before the attack, BTW. Adama didn't seem too surprised that Leobon was a cylon, maybe the colonials had some inkling as to what they were doing, but that's another issue.

 

There really needs to be a prequel to the new BSG showing the creation of the cylons and the first cylon war.

[Lisa Nadazdy]

Re: Battlestar galactica pistols.

 

Excellent thinking. Rep earned.

 

I think there was SOME knowledge of the cylons before the attack, BTW. Adama didn't seem too surprised that Leobon was a cylon, maybe the colonials had some inkling as to what they were doing, but that's another issue.

 

There really needs to be a prequel to the new BSG showing the creation of the cylons and the first cylon war.

 

There were a few who never believed the Cylons were gone forever. There was never any peace treaty between them, only an armistice that only the colonies observed, and after 40 years, it seemed like pointless ceremony, since no one had seen a Cylon in all that time.

[Brother Jim]

Re: Battlestar galactica pistols.

 

There really needs to be a prequel to the new BSG showing the creation of the cylons and the first cylon war.

 

 

There's going to be. It's going to be called "Caprica".

 

http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=2&id=35773

[Guest Schwarzwald]

Re: Battlestar galactica pistols.

 

There's going to be. It's going to be called "Caprica".

 

http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=2&id=35773

 

Excellent news, thanks!

 

I wonder if this one will have any of the original chrome cylons in it. I'm also surprised that baltar's family wasn't picked to be in it, but maybe he'll turn out to be an illegitmate offspring of one of the main characters.

[Tasha]

Re: Battlestar galactica pistols.

 

A 4mm pistol with explosive warheads? What are Cylons made of these days, mylar-covered paper mache? There's a reason why the US Army is abandoning the Barretta 9mm and going back to the M1911 .45 ACP -- stopping power. You shoot it, it falls down. That's also why they love the M2 .50 caliber MG (and the .50 caliber sniper rifle) -- it shoots through walls with enough energy to kill whoever is on the other side.

 

Yeah, I know it's science fiction (or space opera fantasy, if you like), but if we're going that far into the genre, why not just use laser pistols? From a realism standpoint, it's about the same.

 

Matt "Stickler" Frisbee

 

I read an article that the Baretta pistols aren't well liked due to their slides wearing out really fast. They were talking about switching to a "battle pistol" for specific troops and keeping the Barettas as the official backup weapon. I wish I had the link to the article

 

Yes the Barett M107 Sniper Rifle is well liked (AKA the M82a3) among all of the troops that it has been issued to and that have been adaquately trained in the weapon's use. BTW Barret arms has developed a new 25mm round and weapon callled the XM109. It looks just like the M107 but it fires a 25mm round (owie!).

 

 

Tasha

 

PS M107s due nasty things to Goa'uld forcefields and the things being protected by said field...

[Yansuf]

Re: Battlestar galactica pistols.

 

BTW Barret arms has developed a new 25mm round and weapon callled the XM109. It looks just like the M107 but it fires a 25mm round (owie!).

 

Did Barret make the new round, or are they just using the 25mm round that the US Army used in the last trial of the new "individual weapon system?"

That one is a controlled fragmentation munition.