Life Support Power Build

[Guest lucky]

A player wants to model the following Power and I'm not quite sure how to do it: a force field which does not provide any protection from "damage" but instead acts as a hermetic seal against outside contamination, protecting the character against bacterial infections, toxins, viral agents, gasses, etc. Note that the Power does NOT confer any protection against needles, syringes or oral vectors (pills, etc.).

 

"Life Support: Immunity All terrestrial poisons and chemical warfare agents" suggests (to us, anyway) immunity to injected or swallowed toxins as well, which is too much.

 

Suggestions? Thanks in advance.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Life Support Power Build

 

Life Support: Immunity all toxins/chemicals: Airborn Only (-1) [20 Active Points, 10 Real Points]

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Life Support Power Build

 

Life Support: Immunity all toxins/chemicals: Airborn Only (-1) [20 Active Points' date= 10 Real Points]

 

Alternatively, Life Support: Immunity all airborne toxins and chemicals [10 active and real points]. I don't see anything wrong with creating new categories foR LS provided they make sense. The player may also want the power to be Nonpersistant, if the force field shuts down without him maintaining it consciously.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Life Support Power Build

 

Alternatively' date=' Life Support: Immunity all airborne toxins and chemicals [10 active and real points']. I don't see anything wrong with creating new categories foR LS provided they make sense. The player may also want the power to be Nonpersistant, if the force field shuts down without him maintaining it consciously.

I don't see any issue with that build either.

[Lucius]

Re: Life Support Power Build

 

Well, you might WANT a high active point total, as partial protectin against Drains and the like.

 

The problem with things like Life Support that are actually powerful effects, but "cheap" because in game terms it's appropriate for them to be cheap, is that they are vulnerable to adjustment powers.

 

Of course, I admit I've never SEEN a "Drain Life Support." But it's been pointed out to me as a potential weakness in the system mechanics - like the havoc someone could wreak if you let them have a "drain skill."

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Transfer Palindromedary

[The Souljourner]

Re: Life Support Power Build

 

Drain of life support or skills or other similar things would throw up a huge red flag for me. Heck, drains in general are a big red flag for me (really should have the exclamation point on it). Unless there was a REALLY good reason for the drain, I wouldn't allow it.

 

-Nate

[Stochastic]

Re: Life Support Power Build

 

Drain of life support or skills or other similar things would throw up a huge red flag for me. Heck, drains in general are a big red flag for me (really should have the exclamation point on it). Unless there was a REALLY good reason for the drain, I wouldn't allow it.

 

-Nate

 

Hrm... Really? I just made a "viral" character, one of the things he can attack with is HIV which is a persistent Life Support drain (with the +1 sticky with the caveat that it requires a transfer of bodily fluids).

 

I doubt it would really be that useful, other than to weaken peoples immune systems to later infect them with something else.

 

What inherent abuses are you seeing?

[The Souljourner]

Re: Life Support Power Build

 

Hrm... Really? I just made a "viral" character, one of the things he can attack with is HIV which is a persistent Life Support drain (with the +1 sticky with the caveat that it requires a transfer of bodily fluids).

 

I doubt it would really be that useful, other than to weaken peoples immune systems to later infect them with something else.

 

What inherent abuses are you seeing?

 

The fact that 1d6 drain, standard effect is enough to totally remove many of the life support options. This is especially important since a lot of NNDs use life support as their defense. Hit someone with a 10 point drain life support (standard effect) of their "safe environment: heat" and then hit them with an NND (defense is "safe environment: heat").

 

Your HIV I wouldn't model as a life support drain. If you're immune to diseases, in general it's because there's something special about your physiology that makes diseases simply not affect you. Lowering your immune system wouldn't affect that, you're just now more susceptible to things you aren't immune to. It would just make you more likely to catch diseases that you could otherwise usually fight off. "Fighting off" generally means "make a CON roll". Thus, make it a CON drain.

 

The other reason why it's a big problem is that life support has such varied special effects that a generic "drain life support" is going to have weird effects on a game. For example, the power armor suit's AC breaks down, and lavaman suddenly gets hot in the desert.

 

-Nate

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Life Support Power Build

 

There are two isssues here.

 

First, is there an appropriate SFX for that Drain Life Support. Let us assume that Captain Lungfish's ability to Drain your ability to Breathe Water is, in fact, appropriate for his character. He limits it so it only applies to those who can breathe water naturally (it won't break PoweredArmorMan's suit).

 

Second, is it appropriately priced, having established it is reasonable for the SFX? Captain Lungfish will buy 2d6 Standard Effect Drain LS: Water Breathing (20 points), Ranged (+1/2), AoE Radius 12" (+1 1/2) for 60 points. That will take out anyone's Water Breathing every time. Is this a reasonable cost for this ability?

 

Now, let's extrapolate. Humans have the ability to breathe air. Can that also be drained, like natural STR? If so, it sounds like it would have an AP cost equal to the ability to breathe in any other environment, so Captain Lungfish might logically be able to reduce the process and eliminate the ability to breathe air. Same cost for that 12" radius. Reasonable?

 

This issue would be resolved if we simply assumed LS is an inherent ability which cannot be Drained. Captain Lungfish can still have his power, but he'll need to build it as a Transform (Water breather to air breather and vice versa). He won't be able to consistently convert large groups of people with a single shot from a 60 AP power, which seems more reasonable given the substantial impact of his power.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Life Support Power Build

 

I would suggest a simple LS: Self Containted Breathing, Only to Protect against airborn agents (-1/2 to -1). This would work is all such airborn agents are bought as NNDs versus Self Contained Breathing, or are otherwise limited in such a way that characters who don't need to breath, or who have a separate air supply won't be affected.

 

The key to this ability is to know how all such airborn attacks are built, and they buy all the appropriate defenses against such attacks. Without that knowledge, there is no way to suggest a built that protects against them.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Life Support Power Build

 

I would suggest a simple LS: Self Containted Breathing, Only to Protect against airborn agents (-1/2 to -1). This would work is all such airborn agents are bought as NNDs versus Self Contained Breathing, or are otherwise limited in such a way that characters who don't need to breath, or who have a separate air supply won't be affected.

 

The key to this ability is to know how all such airborn attacks are built, and they buy all the appropriate defenses against such attacks. Without that knowledge, there is no way to suggest a built that protects against them.

hey, good one.

[Armitage]

Re: Life Support Power Build

 

I would suggest a simple LS: Self Containted Breathing' date=' Only to Protect against airborn agents (-1/2 to -1). This would work is all such airborn agents are bought as NNDs versus Self Contained Breathing, or are otherwise limited in such a way that characters who don't need to breath, or who have a separate air supply won't be affected.[/quote']

 

I usually design gas masks and the like as Life Support: Self-Contained Breathing, Not in Vacuum (-1/4).

This allows them to breathe safely in any atmospheric conditions, as long as there's an atmosphere in the first place.

[Lucius]

Re: Life Support Power Build

 

I would suggest a simple LS: Self Containted Breathing, Only to Protect against airborn agents (-1/2 to -1). This would work is all such airborn agents are bought as NNDs versus Self Contained Breathing, or are otherwise limited in such a way that characters who don't need to breath, or who have a separate air supply won't be affected.

 

The key to this ability is to know how all such airborn attacks are built, and they buy all the appropriate defenses against such attacks. Without that knowledge, there is no way to suggest a built that protects against them.

 

Which is why one place I think Hero needs to get MORE specific and LESS "build it any way you want to" is in the area of disease, medicine, drugs, and poisons.

 

If these things had SOME kind of standardized "official" way they worked (even with a note to the effect of "you don't HAVE to do it this way" - and if I know hero gamers, no matter how "official" it won't be universal anyway) THEN you could build meaningful defenses and counters to them. It would also save a lot of effort for Game Operations Directors needing to judge how a character fights off a disease, how a medicine helps or hinders, what penalties apply if you're under the influence of something....

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary notes that Lucius Alexander is in a ranting mood today....

[ghost-angel]

Re: Life Support Power Build

 

Which is why one place I think Hero needs to get MORE specific and LESS "build it any way you want to" is in the area of disease, medicine, drugs, and poisons.

 

If these things had SOME kind of standardized "official" way they worked (even with a note to the effect of "you don't HAVE to do it this way" - and if I know hero gamers, no matter how "official" it won't be universal anyway) THEN you could build meaningful defenses and counters to them. It would also save a lot of effort for Game Operations Directors needing to judge how a character fights off a disease, how a medicine helps or hinders, what penalties apply if you're under the influence of something....

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary notes that Lucius Alexander is in a ranting mood today....

They do.... every write up involving diseases in the books (at least all the ones I remember off the top of my head) utilizes NND: Life Support (Immunity to Disease). That's as official as Hero System gets for emulating SFX. Adjust to taste.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Life Support Power Build

 

Which is why one place I think Hero needs to get MORE specific and LESS "build it any way you want to" is in the area of disease, medicine, drugs, and poisons.

 

If these things had SOME kind of standardized "official" way they worked

 

In a way, I agree. Then again, the "official" methods you are looking for exist in every build you see published, especially in books like USPD (I & II). While not exactly official, the powers in these books offer a baseline of where players may start.

 

What's important though is internal consitancy within each campaign. It doesn't really matter how diseases are written up in any particular game, so long as all similar diseases are written up the same way.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Life Support Power Build

 

What's important though is internal consitancy within each campaign. It doesn't really matter how diseases are written up in any particular game' date=' so long as all similar diseases are written up the same way.[/quote']

Internal consistancy will make or break most campaigns. There is something to be said for expected behavior to make the game enjoyable.