Gesture/Incantions

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Gesture/Incantions

 

Superhero Mages barred from taking Incantations or Gestures?? Got one word for ya......Zatanna!

 

But seriously folks.....many "comic book" mages require either Incants or Gestures to make their powers work, like the aforementioned Dr. Strange, Zatanna, or even the Demon and Captain Marvel (who alternately might just take a limitation on activating the powers). There need be no limitation.

Yet there are numerous instances of Zatanna being tied/gagged/etc and still being able to cast spells. As I recall, the character herself has described her backwards-speech as "just a memory aid, nothing more" or words to that effect. Which gets us into "A Limitation that doesn't limit you isn't worth any points."

 

[Edit: Can't remember any specific examples of Dr. Strange casting spells while tied/gagged. But I can remember one instance of Clea doing so. If the Disciple can do it, I would assume the Master can.]

 

I sometimes build super-magic with Gestures & Limitations OR Requires Spell Roll (-1/4). Essentially it's a defined Variable Limitation. If she can chant and wavem the spell is automatic; if not, there's a chance it might not go off.

[oryanfactor]

Re: Gesture/Incantions

 

Neat way to do handle it in terms of Clea or Doc Strange and such, and of course the Spectre or Phantom Stranger would be able to cast spells with no limits......but Zatanna does require sdrawkcab gniklat for any abilty of significance to function.

 

She may be able to say, light a candle magically or cause her car keys to fly off the table into her hand, but for any serious use of power, she needs the words. (humming doesn't count)

 

oryan

 

.raeppa yeht naht resolc eb yam rorrim eht ni stcejbo

[Dust Raven]

Re: Gesture/Incantions

 

Superhero Mages barred from taking Incantations or Gestures?? Got one word for ya......Zatanna!

 

But seriously folks.....many "comic book" mages require either Incants or Gestures to make their powers work, like the aforementioned Dr. Strange, Zatanna, or even the Demon and Captain Marvel (who alternately might just take a limitation on activating the powers). There need be no limitation.

 

Like I said before, almost every published character with Gestures and/or Incantations is a supermage (not counting any characters published specifically for Fantasy Hero of course). My primary question would be that if these Limitations are specifically not intended for the superheroic genre, specifically using supermages as examples because supermages aren't/shouldn't be limited in this way, why do so many published supermages in superheroic campaigns have this Limitations?

 

Edit: I should be more specific on this. What I mean to say is almost every mage published for the superheroic genre by Hero System has the Limitations Gestures and Incantations on their Powers.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Gesture/Incantions

 

...but Zatanna does require sdrawkcab gniklat for any abilty of significance to function.

I don't read a lot of DC, so I could very well be wrong. But I was under the impression that there were several instances of her casting spells without speaking? In fact, I thought they had been cited in another thread here not too long ago, but now I can't find it. Anyone?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Gesture/Incantions

 

Both Champions and The Ultimate Mystic delve into this within game terms: Stating that while it may look like a Supermage Incants and Gestures (and may do so much of the time) - when push comes to shove it's just for effect and for the Game Purposes they should be as unrestricted as your basic Blaster when tossing spells around.

 

While I occasionally take Gestures and/or Incantations for a Supermage, sometimes I just take them as part of a Variable Limitation - meanig they are a tool the Super Mage uses, but not the only one in his box that he uses to cast spells with...

 

As for Gestures vs Restrainable...

 

While Grabbed you can't use Restrainable at all, I might allow Gestures unless your hands are specifically brabbed/held. I pretty much treat Gestures as "your hands" and Restrainable as "Your arms/other body parts" meaning more of your body is needed to be free to engage a Restrainable Power than a Gestures Power. YMMV.

[David Johnston]

Re: Gesture/Incantions

 

Yet there are numerous instances of Zatanna being tied/gagged/etc and still being able to cast spells. .

 

The Silver Age Zatanna need to speak her incantations. Many writers have tried to retool her, thinking the backwards talking was silly (or worse that the stage magician outfit with the fishnet stockings was a bad idea), so there are many subsequent characters who might as well be totally different people.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Gesture/Incantions

 

The Silver Age Zatanna need to speak her incantations. Many writers have tried to retool her' date=' thinking the backwards talking was silly (or worse that the stage magician outfit with the fishnet stockings was a bad idea), so there are many subsequent characters who might as well be totally different people.[/quote']

 

The extent of what she can do has been beefed up and stripped down over the years as well. Magic is often a tough one for the writers to get a handle on, and stripping the character's abilities down is a common kludge for preventing the character becoming a deus ex machina.

[oryanfactor]

Re: Gesture/Incantions

 

Thinking Zatanna's fishnets and top hat were a bad idea was.....well....a bad idea. Zatanna's outfit has got to be one of the best ever ideas in comics outfitting, and so inspired Paul Dini from Batman Animated/Superman/JLA that he found a lookalike, and married her. No kidding.

 

http://www.mistylee.com/photos.html

 

oryan