Build me a madness dagger

[Truthsayer]

This is a dagger that, when it cuts you, you soon suffer from any type of insanity, hallucinations, delusions, panic attacks, the whole shebang. It's a weapon that I came up with in a story I'm writing, but I don't know how to construct it.

[David Johnston]

Re: Build me a madness dagger

 

How soon?

[Truthsayer]

Re: Build me a madness dagger

 

take your time, I won't get back on the board until tommorrow night.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Build me a madness dagger

 

I'd say a likely approach would be a Mental Transform, possibly with the Partial Transform Advantage. I personally don't buy that Mental Transforms always have to be BOECV and all that.

[Frenchman]

Re: Build me a madness dagger

 

A quick and dirty way would be to make it a drain Int/Ego, or maybe mental illusions. A few questions:

Does the wielder of the dagger have any control over the effect? I tend to think not.

Are the effects always the same - they always suffer from hallucinations, paranoia, or whatnot, or are the specifics different for each victim?

What sort of defense, if any, can protect you from this effect?

Are the effects temporary, long-term, or permanant? Can they be reversed?

 

Remember, this is Hero, so we can give you as many different ways to build this as there are members on the boards. Reason from effect: What do you want the insanity to accomplish? Does it make the character completely unable to interact with the real world? Maybe an entangle or an ego blast. If they have wild hallucinations which they interact with instead of the real world, maybe mental images. If the hallucinations and paranoia are just sFX for losing mental strength, perceptiveness, and decision-making abilities, then a drain to int and ego would work.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Build me a madness dagger

 

Same questions as Frenchman, but to elaborate on one, if the effect is temporary, how temporary is it? Mental Illusions can cover just about everything on your list, but tends to be very short lived (target recovers/breaks out in minutes). A Mental Transform would work for long term effects (and I agree with Prest, it need not be BOECV, just defined as a Mental Transform and work agasint EGO instead of BODY), but you'd have to define a method of undoing it (could be some other affect or a mysitic remedy, or something as simple as proper counceling and psychiactric therapy).

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Build me a madness dagger

 

Couple things.

 

1. I agree with the above, the fast & dirty way is to slap 'continuing charges' on the dagger and either transform (aka infect, etc.) the target into target-with-insanity, or if you don't like that, then build it as Images, appropriate groups, and stack it with an EGO drain. If EGO = Willpower, then dumping out the vic's EGO will make it harder to resist.

 

1a. To blantantly rip on Dark Champs a moment, you can also build the Dagger so it has a permanant field around it which makes its own EGO attacks that much harder to resist (built as a Change Environment - your brain's fortress to nothing but a sand castle).

 

2. You build the dagger so it "gives" the target a Disadvantage (which is well outside the box, I know). Since a disad is worth points, this would be the handwaviest version, but possibly the most accurate. "Psych Lim: Total Loon, Full on Nutter and Otherwise completely Unstable, Common, Total, -25" would be a 25 point attack. The same logic applies if you were to Suppress Sight - the ability, Sight, is worth 25 points. So you'd need a hefty suppress to do so (most people buy Darkness) but the point is, kludgey or not, it can be done.

 

I think, though, my second suggestion is still closer to a Mental Transform (you into lunatic, reverse condition: end of duration of effect OR extensive therapy, OR to be convinced you're a lightbulb - and as we all know, it only takes one psychiatrist to change a lightbulb - but it takes a really long time, and the light bulb has to really want to change.)

[Frenchman]

Re: Build me a madness dagger

 

Jumping to transform right away makes me feel...icky. There are so many ways to model insanity without adding disads to the character via transform. I'd only go with transform if the effect is potentially permanant and/or random.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Build me a madness dagger

 

To be fair, the only ones I can think of off the top of my head are either Images (you only, cause you're crazy, and if the story imparts SPECIFIC images, that's something else) or Transform. I just don't see a lot of other ways to model this with any degree of efficiency. What are you thoughts on the matter?

[Frenchman]

Re: Build me a madness dagger

 

Ego blast or Entangle if the insanity makes you fall to the ground and gibber - effectively unconcious or immobile.

 

Drain Int if the hallucinations distract you - make it more difficult for you to perform mental tasks, percieve things, make decisions, or not suffer from massive OCD (as per negative INT rules - page 37)

 

Drain Ego if the insanity makes you more susceptible to mental powers or suggestion - especially if it makes you dance and gibber like a maniac unless you somehow get a better idea (as per negative EGO rules - also page 37)

 

Drain Presence if it makes you unreasonably paranoid or fearful

 

Mental Illusions can also simulate hallucinations (much better than images do), but they don't influence how the character reacts to them - which is why I might use a drain int+ego instead.

 

Mind Control, set command: Be a lunatic. Or something like that

 

All things I'd rather resort to than Transform. I don't like using transform unless it permanantly changes the target in some way that is not replicable by other powers. So unless it was somehow agreed upon that the only way to make someone insane was to give them additional disads, like psych lims, I don't think I'd go with transform.

[Erkenfresh]

Re: Build me a madness dagger

 

If you want the dagger to make the target less good in combat, go with NCSLs and/or NPSLs and/or Drain DEX. (I think nobody mentioned it yet)

[DEFCON Clown]

Re: Build me a madness dagger

 

How about a 1/2d6 KA with a linked 7d6 Transform (Sane to Insane), Stand Effect Rule, must do body. Sprinkle in the appropriate limitations, such as Focus, and you're done.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Build me a madness dagger

 

Problem with the drain that I see is tha tyou leave the insanity in the hands of the player - you haven't built an insanity - you've just weakened the will or lowered their INT. That's why I promote a transform or similar mechanic - otherwise, there's no official insanity.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Build me a madness dagger

 

2. You build the dagger so it "gives" the target a Disadvantage (which is well outside the box' date=' I know). Since a disad is worth points, this would be the handwaviest version, but possibly the most accurate. "Psych Lim: Total Loon, Full on Nutter and Otherwise completely Unstable, Common, Total, -25" would be a 25 point attack. The same logic applies if you were to Suppress Sight - the ability, Sight, is worth 25 points. So you'd need a hefty suppress to do so (most people buy Darkness) but the point is, kludgey or not, it can be done.[/quote']

I do stuff like this all the time. In fact, I just suggested something like this minutes ago on another thread. I like to bestow Disads with a Drain. Just think of the Disad like a "negative power". If you Drain 25 points of "Sanity" from the target, he becomes insane. Buy down the fade rate so it lasts as long as you need it to, and voila! And all without using Transform!

 

And if you like, you can assign effects for partial success (or for when the insanity has partially worn off). Like if you only manage to score 15 points of effect, he's only somewhat insane, or only manifests his insanity in certain circumstances, or perhaps he can make an EGO roll to behave normally.

 

I do this for all kinds of effects: Drain: Sight to cause longer-term blindness, Aid: (Specific Disad) to termorarily remove or ameliorate a Disad, etc.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Build me a madness dagger

 

All of the proposed builds seem decent. Remember that if you do go with Transform, a perfectly acceptable reversion condition--the default, in fact--is healing back the Transform, "damage." I think it's a good way to make a cool lasting effect like this. And the thing that really appealed to me about it is use of the Partial Transform Advantage; even if the target hasn't been, "completely transformed," the GM can easily start describing minor halluninations and such (or odd behavior due to an NPC experiencing such minor effects). It could make a great story element whether it happens to a PC or NPC.

[Truthsayer]

Re: Build me a madness dagger

 

Does the wielder of the dagger have any control over the effect?

 

No, this is a function of the dagger.

 

Are the effects always the same - they always suffer from hallucinations, paranoia, or whatnot, or are the specifics different for each victim?

 

They suffer from various types of insanity, each person may experience hallucinations, or paranoia, delusions. Basically it is a psychotic break with reality. The effect builds over the period of a day.

 

What sort of defense, if any, can protect you from this effect?

 

The defense would be having a strong will, I think. But even then, the madness drains that away until you are incapacitated. Perhaps mental defense is a good defense against this.

 

Are the effects temporary, long-term, or permanant? Can they be reversed?

 

The effects would be long term. It could be healed back with with an aid to Ego or a special mental healing. A telepath could help stabilize the person and regain their sanity. That would be an adventure in and of itself. I'm thinking the telepath could be in danger at first of succumbing to the insanity unless they have a strong ego.

 

You guys are helping a lot. Thanks.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Build me a madness dagger

 

The thing I don't get - and hesitate to mention at the risk of sounding argumentative - why would anyone be itchy about Transform? I love this power - it always heals back, you can build it to heal in any number of ways (including, for example, EGO heals back as BODY, and so on). Building it as a Transform is the fast & easy version, and one that's easy to endorse, execute, control & revise.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Build me a madness dagger

 

There's nothing wrong with using Transform per se, it's just less finely-tunable than the Drain method. For healing back, it either heals back like BODY, or some specific condition reverses it all at once. With Drain, you can define how quickly it heals back. With Transform, you have to decide whether it's Major, Minor, or Cosmetic - three choices only. With the Drain method, you can decide exactly how much insanity to inflict. What type of Tranform would it be? Turning someone into stone (equivalent of killing them) is a Major, obviously. Meking someone insane is clearly less than that, so is it Minor? Then how much insanity do you get? A 20-pt Psych Lim? 25? 30? More? Less? If you decide that inflicting a 20-pt Psych Lim Insanity is a Minor Transform, then what would it be if it were a 25-pt Psych Lim? Or a 30? Or a 15? With the Drain method, all of these questions are easily answered: You define what the insanity does, and how many points of effect you need.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Build me a madness dagger

 

And, something I hadn't considered, is that you can Drain Sanity (you can Drain anything, including Drains) and if your 'sanity' is worth 25 points, then you build it as a Drain, and you set the buy-back/heal rate and voila. Insant insanity. If you want to build it so it takes effect over the course of a day, Gradual effect, X die per hour.