Flash Suppressors/Silencers

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Okay, so I'm banging together a weapons VPP for a player of mine (online game, yadda yadda), and I paused to ponder something:

 

Silencers and Flash Suppressors.

 

How would you build them? Would you 'simply' add the +¼/+½/+¾ advantage to the weapon, which (unfortunately) may boost the active cost past the VPP's limit? Would you create the silencer/flash suppressor as a 'Naked Power Advantage', something to the effect of 'Invisible Power F/X vs. Sight & Sound, +¾, up to 45 Active Points', and allow the character to use the item as a free add-on to any of their firearms? Or perhaps built it as a Darkness to Sight & Sound, Only For Attached Weapon's Discharge -- and what would THAT Disad be worth?

[Snarf]

Since you're working around a VPP, the naked power advantage for all your guns seems most convenient.

 

Silencer: Invisible Power Effect for up to RKA 3d6 (Sight and Sound, +3/4) (AP 34); OAF (-1) (RC 16)

 

This silencer would be cinematically powerful. Realistically, there should be a little bit of sight and sound despite the silencer, but with this power it's so slight as to be literally imperceptible. Also, a realistic silencer would wear out after a few shots.

 

Or you could just increase your VPP until adding some advantages isn't ever a problem. When you don't need silencing, give the guns armor piercing or extra damage instead.

[Trebuchet]

Flash suppressors only prevent the gun's user from being blinded by the flash muzzle flash when he fires the weapon, they do not prevent that flash from being seen by others. Of course, you don't see a visible flash from most firearms during daylight, although the flash may be visible at night. I've fired weapons at night several times and have usually been surprised at how unspectacular the muzzle flash is. Even a .357 Magnum round only looked like a few sparks flying out of the muzzle. In the military, enemy snipers are as often spotted by the poof of dust the muzzle blast kicks up from the ground as from an actual flash, which is why skilled snipers lay a cloth on the ground in front of their muzzle. (I have a number of books and videos on sniping.)

 

There would, of course, be nothing to prevent you from building a "flash suppressor" in Champions that makes the muzzle flash totally invisible.

[TheEmerged]

Another, underestimated solution: Darkness vs sound group, only against gun discharge (-0, since this is effectively a limited form of Personal Immunity), No range/Self Only (-1/2).

[Snarf]

If it's only invisible to hearing that's a +1/4 advantage and will probably fit under the VPP cap easily.

 

The only problem with the darkness method is the meta-rule that says that if there are two ways to do something, you should use the more expensive way. The darkness thing would be about 2 points but the IPE advantage would be about 10, even with hearing only. It all depends on what the GM allows.

[TheEmerged]

Originally posted by Snarf

The only problem with the darkness method is the meta-rule that says that if there are two ways to do something, you should use the more expensive way.

 

A metarule that, in my opinion, is logically flawed. There will always be a more expensive way to do something... Taking this rule literally, you should build damage powers as Transform into Injured Person.

[Snarf]

Originally posted by TheEmerged

A metarule that, in my opinion, is logically flawed. There will always be a more expensive way to do something... Taking this rule literally, you should build damage powers as Transform into Injured Person.

That's a good point. As usual, the GM just has to use his judgement as to whether a player is being cheesy, while keeping in mind all the other meta-rules, such as the one where you should choose the power and advantages that best represent the special effects of the ability you want.

 

I would probably allow the darkness method in my games, if the player wanted it. I don't think I would allow the no range limitation on it though, because the (-0) gunshots only thing seems to cover the value of that. I think all the advantages and disadvantages of that mod cancel out, when considering how darkness normally works.

 

Silencer: +1/4 IPE: Hearing for up to 3d6 RKA (AP 11); OAF (-1), (RC 6)

 

Silencer: Darkness to Hearing, 0 END (+1/2), Only affects gunshots(+0) (AP 7); OAF (-1), (RC 3)

 

Silencer: Darkness to Hearing and Sight, 0 END (+1/2), Only affects gunshots (+0), (AP 23); OAF (-1), (RC 13)

 

Darkness to sight is a little odd though, because I think it implies that dark spot appears to cover up the muzzle flash.

[Toadmaster]

Originally posted by Snarf

Silencer: +1/4 IPE: Hearing for up to 3d6 RKA (AP 11); OAF (-1), (RC 6)

 

Silencer: Darkness to Hearing, 0 END (+1/2), Only affects gunshots(+0) (AP 7); OAF (-1), (RC 3)

 

Silencer: Darkness to Hearing and Sight, 0 END (+1/2), Only affects gunshots (+0), (AP 23); OAF (-1), (RC 13)

 

Darkness to sight is a little odd though, because I think it implies that dark spot appears to cover up the muzzle flash.

 

Suppressors are quite effective at reducing muzzle flash as well as sound, so I'd go with the second method and then RP that shots at close range might be heard. The US military has been issuing muzzle blast suppressors to special ops types for a few years now because of this, these are small sound suppressors meant to reduce noise and muzzle blast, but not completely eliminate them, this makes it harder for them to be found based on the weapons signiture but does not provide the advantage of a full suppressor which might not even alert the enemy to their presence.

 

A sound suppressor (or silencer if you like) is not the same as a flash suppressor, a sound suppressor makes a dramatic reduction in noise (really good ones are about as loud as opening a can of soda, excellent ones are nearly silent) and also eliminates most of the flash and blast which is why they are sometimes issued to "snipers" even though they are using supersonic ammo, it makes it much harder to spot the shooter since there is little muzzle blast. An additional bonus is suppressors provide some recoil reduction.

 

A flash suppressor on the other hand as Trebuchet mentioned is simply meant to reduce the flash from the shooter, often it actually increases the flash from other angles.

[McCoy]

Re: Flash Suppressors/Silencers

 

Originally posted by Wyrm Ouroboros

Okay, so I'm banging together a weapons VPP for a player of mine (online game, yadda yadda), and I paused to ponder something:

 

Silencers and Flash Suppressors.

 

How would you build them?

 

I would just use invisable power effect, and see if the GM agreed that ment inaudible as well.

[Agent Escafarc]

In my group in heroic-level games we use Skill/Pentalty Skill Levels(+/- 3) to the Concealment/Stealth rolls.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Right now I've set the silencer up as the IPE; I have, however, considered the Darkness (Sight & Sound), Only Vs. Attached Weapon's Power Discharge F/X (-½). Adding charges, believe it or not, would make it even better -- the thing wears out after X number of shots. As a) I'm the GM in this case, and the lad is actually on the short end of the mook-killing schtick in this particular game (due to the Real Cost of the high number of weapons he SHOULD have compared to the points he has available in his pool, 45) I may actually go with the Darkness version. Anyhow, thanks!!