Possibly Dumb Question about Characters with multiple IDS

[Vestnik]

OK, voila la question!

 

I just bought (nary 6 hours ago) the Ultimate Brick, which contains the character White Rhino. Now, this character presumably has the seal of approval of our esteemed Mr. Long (May Peace Be With Him). The character appears to have multiple forms (human + rhinoid), yet to have neither Multiform not OIHID nor any relevant Disad. What's going on? Am I (as is very likely) missing something? Can one have multiple forms in some way without using these methods?

 

Thanks, I'm scratching my head here.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Possibly Dumb Question about Characters with multiple IDS

 

He doesn't have multiple forms - the amulet fused with him and he has now become the "White Rhino." So you're not missing it - you're just over thinking it. The image in the box is his only look - he's superheroic.

[Tom]

Re: Possibly Dumb Question about Characters with multiple IDS

 

Yes, and White Rhino isn't the only one in case you're curious...

 

The idea is there isn't any practical way to prevent WR from changing into his powered form, so there is no reason for him to take a disadvantage. Mind, I don't always agree with this rationale, but in some cases it can certainly make sense.

[Vestnik]

Re: Possibly Dumb Question about Characters with multiple IDS

 

He doesn't have multiple forms - the amulet fused with him and he has now become the "White Rhino." So you're not missing it - you're just over thinking it. The image in the box is his only look - he's superheroic.

 

But it says " as Lucas Kitinbe, he is a fairly attractive African male" or words to that effect, and he doesn't have Distinctive Features. And it refers specifically to his transformation mangling his clothes.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Possibly Dumb Question about Characters with multiple IDS

 

This is closely related to a question I have (so I'll ask it here):

 

I've had multiple characters who have radically different secret and hero ids. When should I use multiform, as opposed to Instant Change or Shapeshift? Should I be using a combination of these? When is it just special effects?

[Vestnik]

Re: Possibly Dumb Question about Characters with multiple IDS

 

This is closely related to a question I have (so I'll ask it here):

 

I've had multiple characters who have radically different secret and hero ids. When should I use multiform, as opposed to Instant Change or Shapeshift? Should I be using a combination of these? When is it just special effects?

 

I use OIHID, usually with a Shape Shifted form as the Hero ID, unless I have more than 2 forms, as OIHID saves points and Multiform costs them.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Possibly Dumb Question about Characters with multiple IDS

 

Activating his powers turns him from his Secret ID (Human shape) to his Rhino Form.

 

Simple as that.

 

There's no reasonbly easy way to prevent him from changing, and chaging is near instantaneous. Therefore no need for Multiform (same personality, same skills, no need to over complicate), no OIHID as that notes it takes at least a full phase to turn on such Powers, no Focus (as they aren't provided by the focus, or at least removing the focus does you no good) . . . so: poof.

 

I turn on my Powers. When I do so I become White Rhino! He's defiend the SFX of all his powers as being a large white Humanoid Rhino shape, therefore he becomes one when using those Powers.

[Vestnik]

Re: Possibly Dumb Question about Characters with multiple IDS

 

Yes, and White Rhino isn't the only one in case you're curious...

 

The idea is there isn't any practical way to prevent WR from changing into his powered form, so there is no reason for him to take a disadvantage. Mind, I don't always agree with this rationale, but in some cases it can certainly make sense.

 

I don't like it. Having to be a rhino-man to use your powers is a disadvantage (in the non-technical sense of the term). Good luck going undercover.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Possibly Dumb Question about Characters with multiple IDS

 

Okay. I've read the descriptive text in addition to the character design text/fluff text.

 

You are correct.

 

Nowhere in the STAT block does the text begin to cover OIHID, Transform, nor do his powers come from an OIF. If you want to rule this, you would do it as an SFX - which is absolutely not allowed. He either has Multiform/Transform or he doesn't - so says the letter of the RAW.

 

So it's really up to you - agreed, the character is designed incorrectly to flow with the stat block. Check the errata (which I don't have the time or interest to do with my screwed up, barely reading PDFs machine or I'd do it). It's a campaign decision - he DOES have "Secret Identity" so it's clear that the ability to switch back and forth is part of the design, despite it not being included.

 

Odd. Nice catch, btw. Repped.

[Vestnik]

Re: Possibly Dumb Question about Characters with multiple IDS

 

Activating his powers turns him from his Secret ID (Human shape) to his Rhino Form.

 

Simple as that.

 

There's no reasonbly easy way to prevent him from changing, and chaging is near instantaneous. Therefore no need for Multiform (same personality, same skills, no need to over complicate), no OIHID as that notes it takes at least a full phase to turn on such Powers, no Focus (as they aren't provided by the focus, or at least removing the focus does you no good) . . . so: poof.

 

I turn on my Powers. When I do so I become White Rhino! He's defiend the SFX of all his powers as being a large white Humanoid Rhino shape, therefore he becomes one when using those Powers.

 

But since he doesn't have Shape Shift, he's still recognizable as the same guy, even though he has a rhinocerous head?

 

Me no likey. Me change for own campaign.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Possibly Dumb Question about Characters with multiple IDS

 

GA: Sorry, disagree. either he can change, or he can't - agreed, the change has zippy limitations, and I did submit it would be an option to hand wave it, but it's also a matter of design. For me not looking like a giant white rhinocerous is an advantage - however, not taking Distinctive Features makes this an option.

 

Interesting. Never mind, agree.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Possibly Dumb Question about Characters with multiple IDS

 

This is closely related to a question I have (so I'll ask it here):

 

I've had multiple characters who have radically different secret and hero ids. When should I use multiform, as opposed to Instant Change or Shapeshift? Should I be using a combination of these? When is it just special effects?

 

I use Multiform when the underlying personality has changes to it, it's not just a superficial physical change.

 

Shapeshift alters your physical shape, but doesn't infer any powers beyond that. This is not a Power you use to go from Secret to Hero IDs. It may be PART of a Hero ID, but it isn't the change into itself normally.

 

Instant Change: When you feel the need to actually alter your clothes themselves. FREX I have a mystic character whose powers are based in a number of mystical items and tattoos on their body. They have Instant Change to shift from Secret ID to Hero ID - where the only major difference is that all the tattoos are exposed in the Hero ID (thus: a different costume, and no more). Hero ID Instant Change in this case can be as simple as taking off their shirt to expose the tattoos or using a mystic mcguffin to change from civilian to super clothes.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Possibly Dumb Question about Characters with multiple IDS

 

Nowhere in the STAT block does the text begin to cover OIHID' date=' Transform, nor do his powers come from an OIF. If you want to rule this, you would do it as an SFX - which is absolutely not allowed. He either has Multiform/Transform or he doesn't - so says the letter of the RAW.[/quote']

 

Really? What page?

[Vestnik]

Re: Possibly Dumb Question about Characters with multiple IDS

 

Odd. Nice catch, btw. Repped.

 

Thanks. No one escapes the Eagle Eye of Vestnik! (Which, incidentally, I can use both in and out of Hero ID.)

[ghost-angel]

Re: Possibly Dumb Question about Characters with multiple IDS

 

But since he doesn't have Shape Shift, he's still recognizable as the same guy, even though he has a rhinocerous head?

 

Me no likey. Me change for own campaign.

 

Nah - it's the classic "I remove my glasses, stop slouching and I'm Superman" schtick. Just a bit more . . . extreme.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Possibly Dumb Question about Characters with multiple IDS

 

Consdier:

 

GIANT MALLET OF DOOM: +6D6 Hand Attack

 

Ok. so, where do you keep the mallet?

"Extra dimensional space."

And how do you get it out?

"Reach in, grab it, smash someone."

That's it?

"That's it."

But, it's a big mallet, surely someone will notice?

"Mechanically? I'm Activating A Power, nowhere does it say that Power is visible when not active, it becomes visible when activated, up to that point - it isn't there unless I take a Limitation that says it is.

[Vestnik]

Re: Possibly Dumb Question about Characters with multiple IDS

 

Nah - it's the classic "I remove my glasses' date=' stop slouching and I'm Superman" schtick. Just a bit more . . . extreme.[/quote']

 

"I'll just act normal, and no one will notice my giant rhinocerous head. Move along, move along, nothing to see here."

[ghost-angel]

Re: Possibly Dumb Question about Characters with multiple IDS

 

If no Powers are Active there is no Rhinoscerous Head.

 

Note that some of the powers are Persistant (Damage Reduction). When in Secret ID that would be Inactive; the SFX of Activating the DR is that his body looks like a Humanoid Rhinocerous.

 

Just because a Power has no Limitations doesn't mean it's always on. BAD POWER GAMER! NO BISCUIT!

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Possibly Dumb Question about Characters with multiple IDS

 

This is closely related to a question I have (so I'll ask it here):

 

I've had multiple characters who have radically different secret and hero ids. When should I use multiform, as opposed to Instant Change or Shapeshift? Should I be using a combination of these? When is it just special effects?

 

Honestly? whenever you say so. GA has a good point, you can use the current question of White Rhino as your example. Since there are no 'limitations' on his power, and he doesn't have Dist.Features, nothing says you can't do the transform as SFX.

 

However, if you want to limit it and redesign it, you can always use any of the above; transform, multiform, etc. It doesn't matter so long as you don't put any common sense limitations/disadvantages on it. for example, White Rhino can't have his amulet stripped because it isn't a Focus - as far as the stats go, there's no amulet.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Possibly Dumb Question about Characters with multiple IDS

 

Consdier:

 

GIANT MALLET OF DOOM: +6D6 Hand Attack

 

Ok. so, where do you keep the mallet?

"Extra dimensional space."

And how do you get it out?

"Reach in, grab it, smash someone."

That's it?

"That's it."

But, it's a big mallet, surely someone will notice?

"Mechanically? I'm Activating A Power, nowhere does it say that Power is visible when not active, it becomes visible when activated, up to that point - it isn't there unless I take a Limitation that says it is.

 

Exactly what I was saying before - it's only a mallet that people notice when it's defined as a Focus (a real, tangible object). His Mallet is effectively a TOON attack. It's an SFX of the hand attack, not an actual mallet.

[Vestnik]

Re: Possibly Dumb Question about Characters with multiple IDS

 

If no Powers are Active there is no Rhinoscerous Head.

 

Note that some of the powers are Persistant (Damage Reduction). When in Secret ID that would be Inactive; the SFX of Activating the DR is that his body looks like a Humanoid Rhinocerous.

 

Just because a Power has no Limitations doesn't mean it's always on. BAD POWER GAMER! NO BISCUIT!

 

But part of his powers are his characteristics, and we don't know what his non-rhinoed characteristics are. When does he become the Amazing Rhino Head? When he uses 50 STR? 20 STR? 15? If he's shot when non-rhinoed, what are his PD and ED?

 

I don't like this. A rhino stinks from the head!

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Possibly Dumb Question about Characters with multiple IDS

 

Which is why I suggested you use change it. However, it's all SFX for the player, because the powers activate instantly, the "appearance" is the SFX - you've sort of got it backwards.

 

If you look at the stats, his powers are:

 

a) straightforward, including his super strength

always on - there's no activation roll, there's no limitation. They're always on.

c) because they're always on, there's no limiting the power or the transformation to 'white rhino.'

 

ergo, the appearance as White Rhino is the special effect - the powers themselves have no requirement for it. Invert your thinking. His 'base form' never changes from 'human' except where his SFX ability says it does, and he took no points for it, so it's purely a light show.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Possibly Dumb Question about Characters with multiple IDS

 

But part of his powers are his characteristics, and we don't know what his non-rhinoed characteristics are. When does he become the Amazing Rhino Head? When he uses 50 STR? 20 STR? 15? If he's shot when non-rhinoed, what are his PD and ED?

 

I don't like this. A rhino stinks from the head!

 

The only mistake the writeup makes is not defining which Powers make the superficial change from Secret ID to Rhino ID.

 

Mechanically: there's nothing wrong here. It's just ill-defined SFX wise.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Possibly Dumb Question about Characters with multiple IDS

 

I'd be inclined to give him DF, which he can conceal by shutting off his powers, and define his stat block when out of White Rhino form. However, maybe people just assume it's a costume, and no more unusual than other SuperSuits.

[Vestnik]

Re: Possibly Dumb Question about Characters with multiple IDS

 

I'd be inclined to give him DF' date=' which he can conceal by shutting off his powers, and define his stat block when out of White Rhino form. However, maybe people just assume it's a costume, and no more unusual than other SuperSuits.[/quote']

 

I would definitely define his not in Hero ID stat block -- otherwise, what happens if someone sneaks up on him unsuspecting in an ally as a regular schmo and whaps him over the head?