Citizen Keen Posted July 3, 2003 Report Share Posted July 3, 2003 Something I don't get about the HERO system. Anybody able to help me out? What's the point of putting characteristics in racial package deals? Let's say I'm creating a race, we'll call them the Foogers. So, in my campaign, Foogers are stronger then humans, but not quite as bright. So, that part of the package looks like this: + 3 STR -2 INT Now, Frank likes other aspects of the Foogers (their wings, their infravision, whatever). But Frank has envisioned his character as smart and weak. So, Frank buys three points of STRength and sells back two points of INTelligence. Then, Frank buys 7 points of intelligence (taking him to 15 with a net cost of buying 5 points), and sells back five points of STR (taking him to 8 at a net cost of selling 2 points). So really, the package did nothing. Wouldn't it have been easier to just write in the racial description that as a rule, Foogers are strong and dumb? The only reason I see for putting it in the package is that, when you have an average human, everything's 10. When you have an average fooger, everything's 10, except INT and STR. Am I right on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEmerged Posted July 3, 2003 Report Share Posted July 3, 2003 Re: Package Characteristics Originally posted by Citizen Keen Something I don't get about the HERO system. Anybody able to help me out? What's the point of putting characteristics in racial package deals? Let's say I'm creating a race, we'll call them the Foogers. So, in my campaign, Foogers are stronger then humans, but not quite as bright. So, that part of the package looks like this: Now, Frank likes other aspects of the Foogers (their wings, their infravision, whatever). But Frank has envisioned his character as smart and weak. So, Frank buys three points of STRength and sells back two points of INTelligence. Then, Frank buys 7 points of intelligence (taking him to 15 with a net cost of buying 5 points), and sells back five points of STR (taking him to 8 at a net cost of selling 2 points). So really, the package did nothing. Wouldn't it have been easier to just write in the racial description that as a rule, Foogers are strong and dumb? The only reason I see for putting it in the package is that, when you have an average human, everything's 10. When you have an average fooger, everything's 10, except INT and STR. Am I right on this? The answer is the same one for why you have packages in the first place: to simplify and codify character creation. Pointwise there's no reason for it (now that the package bonus has thankfully been eliminated). Oh, and a minor nitpick -- the "base" for the actual "average", man-in-the-street, is actually 8 now (check out the sample characters in FREd). 10 is the base for characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroooo Posted July 3, 2003 Report Share Posted July 3, 2003 Yes and no. Packages is probably the wrong word for what Hero does. A package is supposed to represent the average 'whatever' you are creating, especially in relation to the 'average' human. In your example, the Foogers, on average, are stronger than humans, but less intelligent. Thats not to say that there are not smart Foogers and weak Foogers. In essence, the package represents the average starting point for that race/job/etc. from which to build upon. The misconception of the name Packages tends to be interpreted as Incentives for playing a particular thing/occupation, esp. by players new to Hero. "If I play a Fooger, I get 5 extra points." Aroooo Edit: the 'yes and no' is in answer to the original post, not the first reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 Packages are just a starting point. They are merely an organizational aid. Package Deals are most useful in heroic games, and are often used as a way to control access to Powers which may not be commonly available. Thus, the Foogers are able to Fly (via wings) and thus need a power which is not commonly available. Putting it into a race Package Deal is a good way for the GM to control access to the Flight power. As a general rule, many GMs state that a) all Packages must be approved by them and once approved cannot be changed, but thats not the system, thats the GM. In your example, the Player would be within his rights (with GM permission if required) to just drop the STR and INT from the package altogether, adjusting the cost of the package and buy his stats from 10 normally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 What really matters is the changed maxima if NCM are in play. If a Fooger can buy 23 STR for 10 points then that's a big difference from normal humans. The problem with this approach is that every PC fooger is going to be right around 23 STR. A better solution would be to define a base and a cost for each characteristic. If Foogers start off at 13 STR and their STR costs 1/2 that accomplishes about the same thing without the problems that char maxima cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEmerged Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 Originally posted by Old Man What really matters is the changed maxima if NCM are in play. If a Fooger can buy 23 STR for 10 points then that's a big difference from normal humans. /* double checks his math Actually, Old Man, a Fooger is going to pay 13 points to get to 23 STR while a Human is going to pay 16. 13 STR +7 points to get to 20 +6 points to get to 23 (3*2) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 I think Old Man was considering that the adders in the racial package would change the point at which cost doubling would occur. So if Foogers start with +3 STR, their new max STR is 23. Likewise, their -2 INT makes their new INT max 18. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 I believe Old Man is going by the "Characteristics Bought as Powers Do Not Affect Maxima" idea. Thus, the character has 10 STR starting and recieves +3 from the package. Thus he is 10 | +3. Then you buy the base 10 up to 20 for 10 points, and then add 3 from the package for 23. The Fantasy HERO playtest doc put the nix on this IIRC, but its a fair way to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 Originally posted by Killer Shrike I believe Old Man is going by the "Characteristics Bought as Powers Do Not Affect Maxima" idea. That is what I was suggesting, since merely changing the base levels around is really irrelevant, as Keen asserted. I am still inclined to believe that a better solution is to alter the actual characteristic costs for different races and dispense with maxima entirely. I haven't yet tried to balance this, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 And Shadowpup has reached 500 posts! Time for the Dildo of Death! Oh wait, wrong boards... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 Originally posted by Old Man And Shadowpup has reached 500 posts! Time for the Dildo of Death! Oh wait, wrong boards... Woah. What kind of boards do you frequent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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