Naked Limitation Negation

[eternal_sage]

in a game i have going, the magic system has a certain set of inevitable, must be on everything limitations. having finally gotten a grasp on the whole Naked Advantage thing, i was wondering if anyone else had thought of a similar mechanic that could be a way to take away a limitation, sort of like a metamagic feat from DnD 3/3.5.

 

basically, this would be bought much the same way as a naked advantage, but using a positive value instead of the normal negative value. for example, every spell has Concentration (1/2 DCV) which is -1/4 (i think, no book handy at the moment). so, just like picking up a Naked Advantage, you would select a number of AP, say 60, calculate the Naked Advantage per normal for a 1/4 advantage, and presto. you can now remove the Concentration limitation on a power up to 60 AP.

 

so, what do you think? does that make sense? does it break something i don't see? it would, of course, be subject to the same GM scrutiny as Naked Advantages are normally. does it already exist somewhere that i haven't noticed, like FH?

 

thanks for any input!

[caris]

Re: Naked Limitation Negation

 

Gods, years ago (like 5), there was a discussion about modeling Cyclop's always on/visor limitation, that would touch on the issues that you are talking about. I'll see what I can dig up.

[Comic]

Re: Naked Limitation Negation

 

Would this be like a Staff of Free Concentration, where up to 60 AP per person who picks it up has the limitation removed, but only for the first 60 AP of powers they apply it to?

 

Would this de-limiter apply to all of the powers a person had, in groups of up to 60 AP at a time, instead?

 

How would it work with frameworks?

[Sean Waters]

Re: Naked Limitation Negation

 

The problem is this )as far as I can see:

 

1. You buy 5 spells with limitations, saving (say) 50 points

 

2. You buy one naked advantage whicj negates the limtiations costing (say) 10 points.

 

3. You are 40 poins up...

 

DnD gets away with it ebcause:

 

1. It is not point based.

 

2. There are downsides to using metamagic feats. Well, there are for scorcerers....

 

Anyway:

 

1. Given that you have to buy the spells with the limtiations anyway, and assuming you are emulating DnD enough to have a (sort of) level based limtiation on how many metamagic feats you can buy), it probably is not a problem.

 

2. You can (kinda) do this legally, at least sort of, by buying a naked variable limtation, so you can shift the limtiation into something else. That could work well.

 

3. I've never ever liked the idea of 'naked' advantages, but buying a naked limitation to counter a limtiation is probably not too bad a thing.

 

4. Hang on, I'm not sure how DnD-y the whole 'concentration' thing is - they use attacks of opportunity rather than reduced DCV to discourage proximate spell use.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Naked Limitation Negation

 

For an example of Naked Limitation Negation take a look at the multipower from this character:

Metalminia

 

50 Magnetic Control: Multipower, 75-point reserve, (75 Active Points); all slots Limited Power (Affected by adjustment powers like an Elemental Control ; -1/4), Limited Power (Requires Metal To Work With; -1/4)

[Notes: All slots assume that she has a minimum amount of metal on hand to work with. Some slots require a larger amount.]

 

4u 1) Rend Metal part 1: Killing Attack - Ranged 3d6+1, Armor Piercing (+1/2) (75 Active Points); Limited Power Only vs. Metal (-1) [Notes: Can be used vs. Metalic targets when no free metal is available. See Rend Metal part 2 (custom power) outside of multipower.] - END=7

 

(click link above to see rest of multipower slots)

 

4 Rend Metal part 2: Custom Power (10 Active Points); Limited Power Only vs. Metal (-1), Limited Power (Affected by adjustment powers like an Elemental Control; -1/4)

[Notes: This is to offset the 10 multipower reserve points normally saved by forcing all slots to require metal to work with as a weapon. This attack doesn't have that limitation.]

[eternal_sage]

Re: Naked Limitation Negation

 

ah, i'm sorry. the game system is not DnD-esque, just the idea. yes, it could be something like a rod that grants the ability, Gandalf's staff like, or just a talent to show dedication and hard work, but still discourage buying off limitations on the powers.

 

never thought of the whole "coming out ahead" thing though. thats a very good point.

 

and Hyper-Man, thats very similar to what i'm talking about, actually. just a little more inline with the way Naked Advantages work.

 

and yes, i too am leary of Naked Advantages, and this is more a thought experiment, really. it is actually for a Star Wars game, in which, as a game rule, powers are not bought at all, but a seperate skill is used for each power, based on the RSR limitation, in a VPP that each player gets for "free". no skill, no power, failed rolls mean the power attempt fizzles. hence the no buying off of lims. bit.

 

basically there would be one that reduces Concentration, one that takes the AP penalty from 1 for 10 to 1 for 20, and one that... does something else. don't have my notes handy.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Naked Limitation Negation

 

The value of removing a Limitation is the cost to actually remove it. If you have a 60-AP power with a -1/4 Limitation, the total cost is 48, so the Limitation is worth 12 points. That's how much it costs to buy it off. Then take that 12-point "Naked Limitation Buyer-Offer" and Limit it however you like.

 

And yes, as Sean points out, you have to be aware of how much that really gets a character for free, just like with a Naked Advantage. That's why all this Nakedness can be a problem. If you have five 60-point (300 points) powers and a +1/2 Naked Advantage that can apply to all of them, you've only spent 30 extra points (total 330) for 450 points worth of power. Make sure the rules you use have appropriate restrictions on how much use and flexibility you get out of a Naked Modifier, whether an Advantage or a Limitation Buy-off.

[Comic]

Re: Naked Limitation Negation

 

Nobody wants to see a bunch of naked RPers.

[eternal_sage]

Re: Naked Limitation Negation

 

as i said, the characters in this particular game do not actually buy powers, but instead buy skills that let them access the powers, one skill per powers, normal active point penalty rules.

 

for that reason, they can't actually buy of the lims, nor are the AP set (for most powers, some are) but are instead done like many mental powers, where you decide what level of effect you are trying for, which gives you the skill penalty.