Shaowrun Conversion

[MisterVimes]

Obviously with FH on our heels, someone (besides me) has thought of this. But I'm looking for imput. One of the things I always liked about SR was the essence system.

 

For those that aren't familar, a character starts with 6 essence points. A mage/shaman has a Magic stat equal to their essence. (Ex. if you have a 6 in magic you can cast up to force 6 spells... force being an indicator of power level Healing-1, healing-2 etc.).

 

Conversely, radical invasive surgery (specfically the addition of cyber and bioware enhacements) reduce the amount of essence (and as a result magic). This keeps a Mage from having a crap-ton of bio/cyberware.

 

How would one handle this in HERO? My first thought was an Active point limit.

 

Example: A character can have (arbitrarily determined) 60 active points in a combination of Magic and/or Cyberware. Therefore, 60 points in Magic or 20 points of Cyberware plus 40 points of magic.

 

Of course, this all depends on the recommended method of dealing with spells in FH.

 

Thoughts?

[johnflang]

I have not figured out how to do or if I will do a magic attribute. I have decided that for every 10 active points of cyberware/bioware there is a permanent -1 to the skill roll for magic. I have also decided that instead of reducing drain (Shadowrun) I will use side effect on failed skill rolls.

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by johnflang

I have not figured out how to do or if I will do a magic attribute. I have decided that for every 10 active points of cyberware/bioware there is a permanent -1 to the skill roll for magic. I have also decided that instead of reducing drain (Shadowrun) I will use side effect on failed skill rolls.

 

I figured side effect was the best way to handle Spell Drain. And the Skill roll penalty has merit (and is less artificial than my arbitrary point limit)

[AnotherSkip]

well i kinda like a limit on the SR Cyberware making it cheaper, probably something on the order of -1/2 all the time (doubled) for a -1.

I would likely split it up into Cyberpsycosis: 5 point Psy Lim disad (cumulative with all other Cyberware) and -2 to Magic Skill rolls(not offsetable by PSL's!), both are permament(for the "equivalent" of +1 cost multiplier) unless bought off with points after the Cyberware is removed. but that is a bit closer to the spirit of the game

[Lord Liaden]

Having no experience with Shadowrun, I should perhaps just keep out of this discussion; but FWIW, I gathered all the past threads on this subject from the discussion boards that I could find. You might glean something useful from them:

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5861&highlight=shadowrun

 

http://www.herogames.com/oldForum/OtherGenres/000129.html

 

http://www.herogames.com/oldForum/OtherGenres/000201.html

 

http://www.herogames.com/oldForum/OtherGenres/000229.html

 

One of those threads also included a link to a short conversion of some basic Shadowrun stats, skills and concepts to HERO:

 

http://www.patric.net/morpheus/houserul/hero/sr2hero.html

 

BTW MisterVimes, nice avatar. I wondered if someone would take advantage of Destroyer's colored illo from the "Showdown" boards. You cropped just the right portion to give it an interesting perspective. I considered taking on the visage of the CU's preeminent menace myself, but in the end I lacked your... well, let's call it "elevated self-image."

 

(That's a joke, Ah say, that's a joke, son!)

[Damon_Dusk]

I had been fervently building a workable conversion of Shadowrun for quite some time, but kind of ran out of steam as my group fell apart. But I do have finished documents detailing:

 

-Cyberware (12 pages)

-Bioware (4 pages)

-Weapons (9 pages)

-Magic (10 pages) Includes rules for Adepts, Aspected Magicians, Full Magicians, Conjuring

 

I'm nearing completion on The Matrix (8 pages so far)

 

I noticed a question on how to do Cyberware so I've included an excerpt from my doc here:

 

edit: I wanted to preface this by saying that I wanted to include all the "realistic" aspects of cyberware as presented in Shadowrun and it is the reason for the list of Limitations to Cyberware.

 

CYBERWARE

 

Cyberware is the term used for pieces of high technology grafted or implanted within the body of a human being, many of which are computers that use the body’s own nervous system as a circuit board, and the brain is the central processor. Cyberware has its drawbacks, though, as those who are heavily “chromed†tend to disassociate themselves from humanity, which makes them distant and cold at times. Magical characters suffer heavily as it lowers their abilities with magic.

 

Some pieces of cyberware are built with the Limitation: Does not work in a magnetic field (-.25). These are pieces that rely solely on computer chips to operate and as a result cannot function within a strong magnetic field. All other pieces of cyberware are built with the Limitation: Cyberware (-2). This reflects the fact cyberware has to be implanted (-.25), can be detected when not in use (-.25), can be removed (-.25), can be damaged (-.25), reduces the characters social and magic skills and ability (-1).

 

-Characters start with an Essence score of 50. Each piece of cyberware implanted reduces this score by its Essence Cost.

-Characters may have no more than 50 points of Essence lost with the exception of Cybermancy. Losing over 50 points is death.

-For every 10 points of Essence lost, the character suffers –1 penalty to all Interaction and Magical Skills.

-For every point of Essence paid for cyberware, the character loses 1.5 points from his Magic Attribute, which in turn reduces the power of magic that the character may cast.

 

Now an insight into the inner workings:

 

Characters are based on 150 points in Heroic Level with an "invisible" pool of 50 points that is their Essence Stat. Essence is then paid for implanting Cyberware. As long as Essence remains at 50, the character (if he has paid the cost to become one) can be a magician (type determined by cost). If the character does not implant Cyberware or pay to become a magician, then that 50 points goes unused but can always be tapped by either. And Essence is directly related to magic power, so reducing the Essence of the character also directly reduces the Magic Stat of the character.

 

A note on Spell Drain - I didn't go with this method as I thought the END costs would be enough considering an END Reserve is not an option. I did have one aspect of Drain and that is while casting spells in Astral Space. Just something that needs to be done to prevent abuse.

 

In any case, I'll be here if any of you want to check it out. I have hard copies of an old system for vehicles and equipment that I need to retype and retool, but if there's sufficient interest (and help), I'd be willing to do that.

[Delthrien]

Ooooo...

 

If you could zip them up and post them, I'd very much like to see 'em. I keep stumbling on the way that spirits are handled for conjuring. The bestiary added the "services" limitation which helped a lot, but Spirits are often better described as SFX for enhanced movement or even just an EB. I'd like to see someone else's take on them...

 

Charlie

[Damon_Dusk]

Ok, I'm putting it up here in zip format with 5 pdf files in it. I've included the Matrix doc though it is nowhere near finished, it's edited very poorly, and really has no flavor text at all. For that one, you need to already know the Shadowrun Matrix system for it to probably make any sense. If you have any questions about anything, let me know here or in email. Enjoy!

 

Well, dang...Just looked at the Maximum Size for Attachments and NONE of them will fit. I can certainly email them to whoever wants them. The zip is 829K. Let me know and I'll send them off right away.

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by Damon_Dusk

Ok, I'm putting it up here in zip format with 5 pdf files in it. I've included the Matrix doc though it is nowhere near finished, it's edited very poorly, and really has no flavor text at all. For that one, you need to already know the Shadowrun Matrix system for it to probably make any sense. If you have any questions about anything, let me know here or in email. Enjoy!

 

Well, dang...Just looked at the Maximum Size for Attachments and NONE of them will fit. I can certainly email them to whoever wants them. The zip is 829K. Let me know and I'll send them off right away.

 

E-mail them to me at codesmith@silentempire.com and I'll FTP them to my website so you can share them out.

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden

Having no experience with Shadowrun, I should perhaps just keep out of this discussion; but FWIW, I gathered all the past threads on this subject from the discussion boards that I could find. You might glean something useful from them:

 

BTW MisterVimes, nice avatar. I wondered if someone would take advantage of Destroyer's colored illo from the "Showdown" boards. You cropped just the right portion to give it an interesting perspective. I considered taking on the visage of the CU's preeminent menace myself, but in the end I lacked your... well, let's call it "elevated self-image."

 

(That's a joke, Ah say, that's a joke, son!)

 

Thanks for the links.

 

I was originally going to use this avatar

 

 

But opted to trim it rather than reduce it to 50x50. The angle of the shot maintains the arrogance of the pose.

 

And my self-image is PLENTY elevated... I'm an elevator... yup

[Damon_Dusk]

Done! And I can answer any questions about them here or at my email: damondusk@cox.net, though I'd prefer it here to keep the thread alive and interesting.

[MisterVimes]

For those interested, the Shadowrun file can be found here:

http://silentempire.com/Hero/

[johnflang]

Thanks for the info, once I have a had a chance to read it I will post questions.

[Damon_Dusk]

Well, I've finished touching up the Matrix section and I was going to move on to the Equipment section. But I have a quick question for everyone. In Shadowrun, Armor ratings are separated into Ballistic and Impact sections. I've done that in my original equipment doc, but I was wonder how everyone felt about it. Should I do that again to be true to the nature of the source, or is it needlessly complicated?

 

It really doesn't affect the Active Point value of the item as I put the Limitations of rPD: Only vs. Ballistic Weapons and Only vs. Impact Weapons as a -1 Limitation. It's more of a semantics thing and whether people feel that hand to hand weapons (which typically go against Impact Armor) need that slight boost in damage against the (usually) lesser Armor value of Impact Armor.

[johnflang]

As regards to armor I am going to use standard Hero PD/ED. I am not going to worry about impact/ballistic. This is personal prefernce.

 

I reviewed your bioware section which is well done. For my campaign I belive I am going with no disadvantages, DF, campaign limit of body *10 active points, and for every ten active points of bioware -1 skill roll for magic.

 

For the magic attribute I am going to use the Power Skill magic as my magic attribute. For every 2 points of int above 10 you can increase the skill by one. Every level of initation will include an increase to magic skill, conjuring skill, and enchantment skill.

[Damon_Dusk]

I'm not quite sure I caught what you meant about the magic skill. The way I'm working it is like this:

 

Note: This is all based on 3rd Edition Shadowrun rules

 

The Magic Attribute in Shadowrun was kind of a soft limit on the maximum power a magician can throw around. In the Hero System, I see that as more like a Multipower Reserve. It's a hard limit, but it also avoids the issues with +2 to all Target Numbers for maintaining spells, etc. that is a big factor in Shadowrun. The Multipower Reserve for starting Magicians is 75 points.

 

The magical skills, Sorcery and Conjuring, are just like any other skills in that they determine success when casting spells or summoning elementals/spirits. So I'm basically just using them in that same respect for Hero.

 

As far as the Bioware idea goes, it seems alright by me. The way I'm looking at my system is this: Bioware is just like Cyberware but doesn't cost them any points. Cyberware is bought with money, but behind the scenes they are also paying for it with the invisible pool of points (Essence Points). Bioware doesn't come from that invisible pool, so there needs to be something that balances it out. To do that, I jacked up the monetary costs, which comes from character points anyway, and set a limit. It's the same concept that I'm using for Alpha, Beta, and Delta grade cyberware...which I just realized I hadn't included in the Cyberware doc. Basically, it's paying in money what isn't paid for by points. Alpha is x2 nuyen, x.8 Essence. Beta is x4 nuyen, x.6 Essence. Delta is x8 nuyen and x.5 Essence. Of course, improved grades of cyberware aren't always available, nor are Delta clinics.

 

I guess I'm trying to stay true to the theme of Shadowrun, where money is a great motivator for many, and also stay true to the balance of the Hero System, which I think is one of it's greatest strengths. It's a fine line to walk, but I think I'm doing alright.

[johnflang]

What I meant by the power skill was magic is based on int. For every 2 points of int above 10 you can increase you magic skill by 1. If you have a 20 int and maxxed magic skill of 18- that limits how much cyberware/bioware you can have. So I am using the magic skill as a "magic attribute". The more cyberware/bioware you have the more often you fail.

 

As a house rule for this campaign no 3 pt/5pt/8pt/10pt skill levels exist, because in Shadowrun you can only improve skills.

[Damon_Dusk]

Armor Values

 

Well, after doing some work, I've found that the system for Ballistic and Impact Armor in Shadowrun is really just too complex and unnecessary, so I've stuck with the standard rPD/rED system of defenses.

 

I'm curious if anyone has had a chance to read through the docs that I passed along, and if anyone else has any questions, suggestions, or ideas. If so, post 'em here!

[altamaros]

Hi

 

Damon, i precisely sent you a message about the documents last week. could you check your private messages and send them to me please ?

 

regards

[MisterVimes]

Download it from here:

http://silentempire.com/Hero/

[altamaros]

BTW, thanks to both of you : Mr Vimes for the link, Justin for sending them anyway.

 

Last week-end from friday evening to sunday afternoon, the Golden Run happened (a french shadowrun tournament organized by my game club; 48h non-stop shadowrun playing ).

 

Cuz my regular hero gamers are a bunch of rabid veteran shadowrunners. i'm currently trying to bring them to the Light of Hero and it seems to be promising. I hope that your work will motivate them a bit more.

 

I will pass the files to my fellow gamers and get you a feedback soon.

[Damon_Dusk]

Initiation vs. Essence

 

Alright...Well after getting to the equipment and trying to do Magical Foci, I've finally realize a problem. How would I do Initiation? Basically, since the character's magic pool and his essence (points for cyberware) are based off the same pool of points, how is it fair to allow a magician to increase this pool of points where a cyberware character can't? I'm considering calling it a characteristic subject to NCM, but that would still not prevent someone from legally buying up their Essence, and doing it cheaply (2 points for 1 Essence). Of course there is already a provision built in for "increasing Essence" with cyberware grades. So it could balance out in the end, but it brings up another issue...Magical Foci. The only power I've seen to simulate this is Aid to the Multipower Pool and Slot. But the way I've written it up (and taking the cue from Shadowrun and including a point (Karma) cost as well as monetary cost, it would end up costing around 13 real points for +10 AP to the Pool and Slot to affect only a single spell. That's kind of expensive considering that 10 AP to the Pool if bought directly would be around 7 points. The other way to do it is just Points that add to the multipower with limitations and aid to the powers...but the Aid will still cost more than just buying up the slot itself... I guess the other option is to not worry about a point cost for foci, just like other equipment, and that will avoid the whole issue, except that of Initiation.

 

So, I guess the question is: Using the included system for magic, how would you do Initiation (or increasing the Magic Multipower Pool)?

 

Thanks and sorry for the long post.

[johnflang]

How would you handle the quickness modifer of Shadowrun in Hero?

[johnflang]

DF vs SL

 

In 4th edition you would call the different races a DF. However, in 5th with introduction of social limitations and how race is handled in Shadowrun I am thinking that race should be a social limitation not a distintive feature.

 

Magic/cyberware/bioware if obvious should be a distintive feature or social limitation.

 

Any comments/suggestions on how to handle this?

[Damon_Dusk]

The Quickness modifier you mention, I would treat as inches of running. But as dwarves were the only race in 3rd Ed. Shadowrun to have a different penalty than the other races, I would just say that they have a slower base Running value, and possibly impose a racial maximum on Running lower than 10.

 

As far as the social limitations for the races, that really depends on how much emphasis you want to place on racism in your game. I would probably do it this way:

 

Elves: Social Limitation: Racial Discrimination (8-), Minor (-5 Disadvantage)

 

Dwarves: Social Limitation: Racial Discrimination (11-), Minor (-10 Disadvantage)

 

Orks & Trolls: Social Limitation: Racial Discrimination (14-), Major (-20 Disadvantage)

 

For the most part, most cyberware in Shadowrun is unseen, and the parts that people can see easily are often just accepted (such as datajacks, chipjacks, etc.) so I wouldn't really allow a disadvantage for them; they're pretty common after all. And cyberware, at least in the rules that I'm using, already has a social effect in that the more you have implanted, the lower your PRE skills (-1 per 10 Essence lost). Perhaps, allowing a character with a cyberlimb to take distinctive features would be acceptable, as it is less common, yet still obvious. I would treat most cyberlimbs as Easily Concealable, Noticed and Recognized, Feature Detected by Commonly Used Sense (5 pt. Disad). But it really depends on how you want the cyberware to be received. If cyberlimbs are illegal, you could say that it causes a Major Reaction (+5 pts).

 

Magic is similar, but as there really isn't a distinguising feature, I wouldn't let them have a disadvantage for it. The only one I could say would be this: Easily Concealed (5 pts), Noticed and Recognized (+0), Feature Detectable by unusual sense (Astral Perception) (-10) which would make the disadvantage worth no points.

 

That's pretty much the way I would handle that. Hope it helps.