Doubling Damage Question

[krayzdave]

alright, i need help determining the base damage for a weapon.

 

i think it's STR dam + the weapon's dam. is this right???

 

so in a martial combat style that has a weapon element and a +1DC, does the +1DC count as the base?????

[ghost-angel]

Re: Doubling Damage Question

 

Martial Damage Classes add to Base Damage for Unarmed Attacks.

 

They add to Damage normally for Armed Attacks.

 

p406.

 

Also - it takes 2 Martial DCs to add +1 DC to a Killing Attack.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Doubling Damage Question

 

If you have a 1d6 HKA weapon, you can get up to 2d6 HKA with it, by adding STR in excess of the STR Min or Martial Arts DCs at +1 actual DC per +2 Martial Arts bonus. If the STR Min is 10, then you max out your damage at STR 25 or at +6 Martial Arts DCs, or some combination of the two.

[krayzdave]

Re: Doubling Damage Question

 

If you have a 1d6 HKA weapon' date=' you can get up to 2d6 HKA with it, by adding STR in excess of the STR Min or Martial Arts DCs at +1 actual DC per +2 Martial Arts bonus. If the STR Min is 10, then you max out your damage at STR 25 or at +6 Martial Arts DCs, or some combination of the two.[/quote']

 

i am completely lost.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Doubling Damage Question

 

Okay, we'll try it this way.

 

If the weapon does 1d6 Killing normally, and has a Strength Minimum of 10, then a character with 10 STR does 1d6 with it. If he has 15 STR, then he adds a Damage Class (which is a little weird at first for Killing Attacks...there is a chart in the rulebook somewhere) bringing the total damage up to 1d6+1. At STR 20, he gets another DC, for a total of 1 1/2d6. At STR 25, damage goes up to 2d6. Above STR 25, damage stays at 2d6...that weapon can't do any more.

 

For Martial Arts, it's kind of weird too. A Martial Strike does +2d6 normal damage (2 Damage Classes), but to convert this to killing damage you divide it by 2 before adding it in to the base attack. So a 10 STR character with Martial Strike using this weapon does 1d6 base plus (2DC divided by 2 =) 1 DC, for a total of 1d6+1. If the character uses Offensive Strike (+4 normal DC) with this weapon, the damage is 1d6 base plus (4DC divided by 2 =) 2 DC, for a total of 1 1/2d6.

 

STR and MA can both add in to increase damage, but this weapon can't go above 2d6 no matter how many additional DC you add.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Doubling Damage Question

 

i am completely lost.

 

Welcome to Hero Damage Rules. You can get a PHD in them at accredited schools.

 

Here's bits to keep in mind:

 

Step 1) Armed or Unarmed

Step 2) Killing or Normal

 

Armed with these two things we proceed.

 

Assuming this is with a Sword, Armed Killing Attack.

 

Base Damage: Swords Damage.

Addative Damage: STR above STR Minimum of Sword; Martial Damage Classes; Martial Maneuvers; Skill Levels

 

Example: Sword does 1D6 Killing, with a 10 STR Minimum. You have 15 STR (+5 STR for Damage); Are performing a Defensive Strike (no added Damage); and you have 2 Martial Damage Classes.

 

The addative Damage Classes go like this:

STR 5 (+1 DC) + Martial Maneuver (+0 DC) + Martial DCs (+1 DC) = +2 Damage Classes. converted to Killing Damage = 1/2 D6.

 

You're doing 1 1/2D6 Killing Damage with this attack.

 

That make some sense? All the rules are 5ER p405-407

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Doubling Damage Question

 

It'll be second nature in no time, Dave. Trust us on that.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Doubling Damage Question

 

Some day I'll make up an Adding Damage Flowchart.

[mayapuppies]

Re: Doubling Damage Question

 

Or, you can simply say, that for every 5 points of strength above the weapons STR Min, you add 1 to the damage class of the weapon.

 

At least for the strength thingy...

[Frenchman]

Re: Doubling Damage Question

 

And don't forget that extra damage classes (which are bought separately for 4 points apiece) add to the base damage of a weapon, and so increase the amount of damage you can add with STR.

Just to confuse you more.

(But really, it is less difficult to learn this than THAC0 was)

[ghost-angel]

Re: Doubling Damage Question

 

And don't forget that extra damage classes (which are bought separately for 4 points apiece) add to the base damage of a weapon, and so increase the amount of damage you can add with STR.

Just to confuse you more.

(But really, it is less difficult to learn this than THAC0 was)

 

Not for Armed Attacks they don't.

[Flames]

Re: Doubling Damage Question

 

The rules differ slightly depending on the genre and the power level of the campaign.

 

GMs have some wiggle-room to allow for more powerful additions to damage if it suits the campaign.

 

What I like to do is figure out all the damage ahead-of-time, clear it with the GM (who really needs to be the one to be up on the rules) and then have it written down on the character sheet, maybe broken down as what is adding to what, and then have a final damage roll at the end of the equation.

[Arzash]

Re: Doubling Damage Question

 

Ok so how does that work if you go in the opposite direction if you have a character using great club with the martial killing strike bought usable unarmed and with great club and 2 martial arts DC's. The great club is 6d6n damage and the killing strike is 1/2d6k. Does the great club then become a 3d6k weapon (assuming no bonus from str)? Or do the clubs normal DC's change from 6 to 3 when used with a martial attack?

 

This part has had me scratching my head for a bit, I ended up calling it like 2-1/2d6k but I am not sure if that is right either.

 

Thanks,

Arzash

[ghost-angel]

Re: Doubling Damage Question

 

First, Rules for adding damage to a Killing Strike add as if the Killing Strike itself is an HKA (5ER p399).

 

Second, I wouldn't allow you to perform a Killing Strike with a Normal Damage Weapon. I'd ask you to make up your mind.

 

Third, if you talked me into it I would a) refer to point 1 and convert the Normal Damage Club to Killing Damage Classes and go from there.

 

End result is you're going to net a maximum of 1D6+1 Killing Damage with a Killing Strike no matter how you approach it.

[krayzdave]

Re: Doubling Damage Question

 

And don't forget that extra damage classes (which are bought separately for 4 points apiece) add to the base damage of a weapon, and so increase the amount of damage you can add with STR.

Just to confuse you more.

(But really, it is less difficult to learn this than THAC0 was)

 

 

so extra damage classes bought for the weapon do increase THE BASE damage?? i'm trying to figure out what the base damage for a weapon is and if anything raises that number, such as buyinh extra damage classes.

[krayzdave]

Re: Doubling Damage Question

 

so extra damage classes bought for the weapon do increase THE BASE damage?? i'm trying to figure out what the base damage for a weapon is and if anything raises that number' date=' such as buyinh extra damage classes.[/quote']

 

the reason i want to know this is so i can figure out the Doubling Damage rule. you can only increase the damage of a weapon to a maximum of twice its BASE damage, that's what i'm trying to figure out.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Doubling Damage Question

 

so extra damage classes bought for the weapon do increase THE BASE damage?? i'm trying to figure out what the base damage for a weapon is and if anything raises that number' date=' such as buyinh extra damage classes.[/quote']

 

Yes and No.

 

Martial Damage Classes add to Base Damage for Unarmed Martial Attacks.

 

Martial Damage Classes do not add to Base Damage for Armed Martial Attacks.

 

Page 406 Extra Damage Classes For Unarmed Martial Maneuvers

[krayzdave]

Re: Doubling Damage Question

 

Welcome to Hero Damage Rules. You can get a PHD in them at accredited schools.

 

Here's bits to keep in mind:

 

Step 1) Armed or Unarmed

Step 2) Killing or Normal

 

Armed with these two things we proceed.

 

Assuming this is with a Sword, Armed Killing Attack.

 

Base Damage: Swords Damage.

Addative Damage: STR above STR Minimum of Sword; Martial Damage Classes; Martial Maneuvers; Skill Levels

 

Example: Sword does 1D6 Killing, with a 10 STR Minimum. You have 15 STR (+5 STR for Damage); Are performing a Defensive Strike (no added Damage); and you have 2 Martial Damage Classes.

 

The addative Damage Classes go like this:

STR 5 (+1 DC) + Martial Maneuver (+0 DC) + Martial DCs (+1 DC) = +2 Damage Classes. converted to Killing Damage = 1/2 D6.

 

You're doing 1 1/2D6 Killing Damage with this attack.

 

That make some sense? All the rules are 5ER p405-407

 

this does make sense. thank you so much. i was pounding my head against the floor trying to figure this out.

 

so to clarify:

 

THE BASE DAMAGE IS CONSIDERED TO BE WHATEVER THE WEAPON DOES IN DAMAGE, AND EVERYTHING ELSE (MARTIAL MANUEVERS, STR ABOVE MINIMUM FOR WEAPON, AND SKILL LEVELS) ARE ALL CONSIDERED ADDED TO BASE DAMAGE???

 

CORRECT???

[ghost-angel]

Re: Doubling Damage Question

 

pretty much covers it, for Killing Attacks at least.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Doubling Damage Question

 

Mostly, yes, but not completely. So if you're going to get it all, you may as well get it all at once. GA still owes me rep for correcting him on how to add Damage Classes the last time. So let's go over the core basics.

 

ONE: We add DCs, so that's really the first thing to understand. A DC is a step in damage; there's a chart in the book, please reference it, but the 'stages' are Xd6, Xd6+1, Xd6 1/2, X+1d6. There's also Xd6-1 and a few other variations, but for adding DCs, those are the stages.

 

Oh, if you have a weapon that deals 2d6-1, it's the same as 1d6 1/2, for purposes of this argument (the cost is the same as well, which is really what all of this is about).

 

If you have the talent Deadly Blow, that adds to your weapons BASE damage. This is where it gets messy.

 

Normally, you cannot deal more than double its base damage, by any means. So your 1d6+1 short sword has 4 Damage Classes. That means you can't deal more than 8 Damage Classes overall (2d6 1/2 or 2d6-1, but generally 2d6 1/2, as I mentioned prior).

 

If you exceed the STR Minima by 5 points, and every 5 points thereafter, you add a Damage Class straight up to a Killing Attack or a Hand Attack normally. This is the only time it doesn't make a difference; 5 points of STR adds a DC regardless.

 

If you're using Skill Levels, such as Martial Combat Levels, you add them directly to normal attacks, and at a 2:1 ratio for Killing Attacks. So you need to devote 2 Martial Damage Classes to a weapon to add one damage class to a killing attack. With me so far?

 

Now, as I mentioned, Deadly Blow adds DCs to the BASE DAMAGE. This means if you have +2 Damage Classes in your Deadly Blow talent, and we're using your 1d6+1 short sword, you now have a BASE of 6 Damage Classes, which means with all your toys and modifiers you can get up to 12 damage classes.

 

This is why some people aren't a big fan of Deadly Blow. I maintain that Deadly Blow should always be counted outside, but allow you to go over & above the base damage (i.e., 4 DC base, doubles to 8, add 2 and cap at 10, not 12).

 

Hopefully. you're lost.

 

Er, I mean, enlightened.

[Arzash]

Re: Doubling Damage Question

 

Ok thanks, I was somewhat unclear whether the killing strike strike could be used with a weapon and how it added as the player was maintaining that you could use weapons with any martial arts you purchased the element for. Still haven't been able to fully read that big book yet.

Thanks,

Arzash

[ghost-angel]

Re: Doubling Damage Question

 

This is why some people aren't a big fan of Deadly Blow. I maintain that Deadly Blow should always be counted outside, but allow you to go over & above the base damage (i.e., 4 DC base, doubles to 8, add 2 and cap at 10, not 12).

 

Hopefully. you're lost.

 

Er, I mean, enlightened.

 

Personally I would add Deadly Blow in last.

 

(Base Damage + Added Damage) + Deadly Blow.

 

Base + Added cannot more than double a Killing Weapons DCs. Then tack Deadly Blow on after all that's been done. But that's just me.

[mayapuppies]

Re: Doubling Damage Question

 

Personally I would add Deadly Blow in last.

 

(Base Damage + Added Damage) + Deadly Blow.

 

Base + Added cannot more than double a Killing Weapons DCs. Then tack Deadly Blow on after all that's been done. But that's just me.

This would be how I'm doing it.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Doubling Damage Question

 

Personally I would add Deadly Blow in last.

 

(Base Damage + Added Damage) + Deadly Blow.

 

Base + Added cannot more than double a Killing Weapons DCs. Then tack Deadly Blow on after all that's been done. But that's just me.

 

Well, except that the rules say that Deadly Blow is base damage.

 

Your way works fine for a house rule, particularly in a campaign where dishing out artillery barrages worth of damage in a single sword swipe doesn't fit.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Doubling Damage Question

 

Well, except that the rules say that Deadly Blow is base damage.

 

Your way works fine for a house rule, particularly in a campaign where dishing out artillery barrages worth of damage in a single sword swipe doesn't fit.

 

I know that, the Personally portion of my statement is meant to indicate that's the House Rule I would implement.