My mostly hard sci-fi campaign

[Spence]

Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign

 

I can see your point,

 

So perhaps, after all, I'm engaging in wishful thinking in objecting to your suggestion regarding this issue.

 

"Seeing the point" is all I was really after. I was never actually trying to change anyone beliefs.

 

Not wishful thinking to prefer a better option. I am just throwing out ideas that I fully believe people are capable of. We as a collective tend to do many things that are not in keeping with expressed ideals.

[Spence]

Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign

 

IOW' date=' mercy is a luxury item[/quote']

 

Unfortunately we have plenty of history that supports the concept.

 

Conversely' date=' [i']punishment [/i]might be seen as a luxury. Execute your best pipefitter just because he murdered or raped someone? That's just crazy sentimentality. Work it out somehow, the perpetrator's friends would say. And do you reallly want to risk dividing the colony by pushing the issue? Looking at how actual small societies handle serious crimes, I would suggest that this is a much more likely scenario.

 

Giving into popular opinion and/or letting criminals get away with major crimes because "they're too valuable to punish" is going to annihilate morale and factionalize crew just as badly as the execution would. It's kind of a matter of what sort of social damage you're willing to let the crime inflict on a long term scale.

 

I suspect some sort of "docilization" device, procedure, or chemical would be the likely best-of-all-bad-options.

 

Judicial Zombification.

 

"Something's wrong with the #3 reactor. Take a security team to go collect Jones and wake his zombie ass up to fix it."

 

Forced labor for criminals may become an option if manpower is dangerously short. They would still be isolated from the other colonists' date=' though.[/quote']

 

And these three posts bring up some viable, if disturbing points.

 

Not to mention that is the process becomes 'acceptable' by the population. Over generations, might the line between what crimes are severe enough to justify forced labor status be influenced by need or agenda? And in the case of Judicial Zombification (JZ). The possibility of the process being more convenient long term might lower the criteria even more.

 

Not to mention the idea of detaining and sentencing 'foreign' skilled labor.

 

The old saying 'it's a slippery road...' comes to mind.

[tkdguy]

Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign

 

Well, my future society isn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination. While not dystopian (at least until the war gets nasty), it is by no means utopian.

[tkdguy]

Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign

 

I haven't detailed all my colonies yet, but I made some notes on a few of them a while back. Here they are:

 

Vulcan Station

 

Vulcan Station is a Von Braun Wheel in geosynchronous orbit above Mercury's Caloris Basin. The station's spin provides artificial gravity. Vulcan is manned by an international team of 2000 scientists, technicians and support staff. The scientists study the sun and Mercury, particularly the planet's magnetic field. As the team is international, the data provided is to be shared with the entire world. Some of the data are also sent to Neith, where the data is to be put to practical use. There are also plans to send a manned mission to Mercury's North Pole. The hydroponics sections provide oxygen and some food, but most food is imported from Neith and from Earth, the latter sending meat, which is rare in the station. Most waste products are biodegradable and are used in energy production; the rest (less than 1%) is jettisoned into the sun.

 

Neith

 

Named after an Egyptian goddess (and a fictional moon once thought to orbit Venus), Neith is a Stanford Torus orbiting Venus' Aphrodite Terra region. Completed in 2044, it is home to 30,000 people from all countries. There is also an international team of scientists attempting to terraform the planet. Neith sponsors Vulcan, providing supplies in exchange for data. Its own resources are growing, thus allowing it to become somewhat self-sufficient and semi-autonomous. It still needs raw materials from Earth, which it receives in exchange for finished products. One of the favorite pasttimes (also a tourist attraction) is ballooning in the upper atmosphere of Venus. Specially-made balloons with enclosed capsules allow adventurers to skim above the planet's deadly clouds. Floating cities have been proposed, but nothing has come of it so far. There are many communities on Neith. Some are more integrated internationally than others, but all communities receive equal representation in the central government. The central government has recently come under fire, as there have been instances of graft and corruption.

 

Sagan Colony

 

Sagan is the first successful Martian colony, founded in 2033. Located in Chryse Planitia, it was originally a subterranean structure named Chryse Station. It expanded and became a domed city in 2047, and was renamed Sagan Colony, after the scientist Carl Sagan. The domed structure allows an earth-like atmosphere to be maintained. It was originally the center of the Martian terraforming project, but that task has been transferred to Bova Colony. Nevertheless, Sagan is a major center for commerce and immigration. It is also the primary Martian spaceport, since the Martian space elevator is located there. Engineers at Sagan are planning to build a railway system meant to connect all the Martian colonies to one another. Sagan colony is considered luxurious by colony standard and is one of the few ground-based colonies that allow occupants to keep pets (most others being space stations with atificial gravity).

[ChampionsLawyer]

Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign

 

Giving into popular opinion and/or letting criminals get away with major crimes because "they're too valuable to punish" is going to annihilate morale and factionalize crew just as badly as the execution would. It's kind of a matter of what sort of social damage you're willing to let the crime inflict on a long term scale.

 

I suspect some sort of "docilization" device, procedure, or chemical would be the likely best-of-all-bad-options.

 

Judicial Zombification.

 

"Something's wrong with the #3 reactor. Take a security team to go collect Jones and wake his zombie ass up to fix it."

 

 

Random thoughts on how laws and ethics change or revert based on space colonization or a reversion to colony/tribal thinking. I'll qualify these as coming from a guy who's done loads on the ethics/evolutionary law topic (trust me on this, I'd rather not turn this into a resume post.)

 

There are two basic ethics that exist in some manner throughout all cultures from the earliest times. These "rules" existed because resources were scarce and skills were either valuable because they took years to develop (and it took years to get a replacement in training or in travel) or because the ability to define "truth" was difficult.

 

These ethics were "Do not kill" and "Do not lie". If you killed your only doctor or metal smith, you were screwed in a dangerous environment. If you lied to your peers, no one would trust you and it broke down the ability of the social units (town) to function properly. Other tenets came later when the concept of personal property developed fully and societies were challenged to explain things that were otherwise adversely affecting specific pocket societies. (There are social explanations for the Ten Commandments and Kosher law, etc. and those social explanations account for the differences in local ethics and the need for cultural relativity).

 

So ultimately and to make this less a discussion about ethics and more about this thread, I postulate the following in context. (and this may be very similar to the American Old West in some places and equivalent to Sumerian codex in others)

 

1. The closer you are to Earth and the easier it is to off-world people and get replacement skills, the more likely that punishment is an option and the more likely that people will be culturally pre-disposed towards punishment as an option.

 

2. At a middle-distance from Earth you may find that there exists a tenuous grip on law. We've been through the ethical considerations once and staffing a colony would require cross-training and at least one sheriff with a lot of temporal authority. Executions would happen for the most severe offenses as there needs to be a healthy amount of fear to further the expansionist agenda and keep people in line. That stated, you're not so far away that the sheriff isn't accountable for his own transgressions given communication.

 

3. At a far distance from Earth, there's a very subjective grip on law. Out here you're not going to find many if any sheriffs and they may only drop by once a year or more for administrative functions. Only the most gung-ho, resourceful and reliable would be out here and that carries with it a great deal of success when everything works and a great deal of failure when someone cracks under pressure. Civilian academics and Military outfits don't follow rules very often in the pursuits of their jobs.

 

Now one other thing I should mention here is that when confronted with the unknown, people try to explain things to their satisfaction. Depending on their education level and general level of superstition etc, you may find new religions popping up around extra-terrestrial interpretations of existing faiths. You may find yourself running into people worshipping sufficiently advanced technology "indistinguishable from magic" as a new religion or god. This happening may fundamentally change your ethical worldview and potentially add new working arrangement that create new rules and new laws.. thus changing the paradigm of punishment.

 

What happens when stuff filters back to homeworld about the actions within the Book of Revelations occurring on Neptune?

 

Some basic thoughts to further conversation. I don't know if this is relevant or not now that I've rambled...

 

Best,

CL

[ChampionsLawyer]

Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign

 

After thinking about this further, there's a point to be made about "zombification".

 

The GM needs to determine the moral compass of his society as a whole before determining whether or not zombification works. Functionally it certainly does (assuming that the un-zombified worker "wants" to help out. Death to some is preferable to zombie-mode).

 

Free will is a HUGE thing in terms of moral ethics and is an assumption that allows judicial process to work the way it does. If zombie mode is allowed as a form of punishment, then it stands to reason that it needs to be considered moral not only in terms of the life-saving features but in terms of unusual punishment and free will.

 

It may be easier to work around the problem by making cyber-ware skill chips available and just eliminating the problem person entirely. This stated, the moral dilemma could be the foundation of a subplot if not an entire campaign if done well and all aspects are delved.

 

Blah, Blah, Blah, ethicist into gaming.. I digress.

[tkdguy]

Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign

 

Interesting post, ChampionsLawyer. Glad to have you on board!

[ChampionsLawyer]

Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign

 

Thanks. I rather like conversations pertaining to setting.

 

One other thought that comes to mind as something I left out of the initial post. The further away colonies are from Earth (government center) and the more life revolves around sustenance tasks, the more conservative it may tend to be. This will influence legal interpretation.

 

The reverse can be said in terms of a dictatorial central government. Further away the more liberal the government may tend to be (provided that basic sustenance is a given.. hierarchy of needs.) That sliding scale to me is rather important for campaign mood.

 

CL

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign

 

After thinking about this further, there's a point to be made about "zombification".

 

The GM needs to determine the moral compass of his society as a whole before determining whether or not zombification works. Functionally it certainly does (assuming that the un-zombified worker "wants" to help out. Death to some is preferable to zombie-mode).

 

Free will is a HUGE thing in terms of moral ethics and is an assumption that allows judicial process to work the way it does. If zombie mode is allowed as a form of punishment, then it stands to reason that it needs to be considered moral not only in terms of the life-saving features but in terms of unusual punishment and free will.

 

It may be easier to work around the problem by making cyber-ware skill chips available and just eliminating the problem person entirely. This stated, the moral dilemma could be the foundation of a subplot if not an entire campaign if done well and all aspects are delved.

 

Blah, Blah, Blah, ethicist into gaming.. I digress.

 

Indeed.

One of the more ethical options I see for docilization as a punishment is as a "in the field" measure for subduing criminals until they can be returned to a facility (be it a station or dirtside) with the resources to dedicate towards legal proceedings and punishment.

[Nyrath]

Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign

 

I will note similar issues raised in the episode of Babylon 5 called "Passing Through Gethsemane." In their future, a person tried by jury and found guilty of a capital crime is not executed. Instead they suffer what is called "death of personality." Their mind is wiped and a new personality is written into their mind. In the interests of repaying ones debt to society, the new personality is altruistic and inclined to help others.

 

The episode explores the darker implications of this situation.

[tkdguy]

Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign

 

That was one of the best episodes in the series.

[tkdguy]

Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign

 

Here are some of the spacecraft classes in my campaign. I used naval ship classes, but I may drop that altogether.

 

These ship classes were taken from Cold Navy, since that was my original source of inspiration. While the ships are more suited to a space opera campaign than hard science fiction, you have to admit they look really good. The only changes is that they're much smaller than the data listed in their descriptions and they use railguns and missiles instead of beam weapons. No spinal mounts either. These ships are manned by NATO, Israeli, and ANZAC forces.

 

Conquest Class Battleship

Avatar Class Battlecruiser

Orion Class Light Cruiser

Masada Class Heavy Destroyer

Avenger Class Destroyer

Baker Class Destroyer (actually from FASA's Star Trek game)

Northampton Class Frigate

Swift Class Frigate (also used in the Japanese fleet)

Osprey Class Carrier (my first attempt at scratch-building models)

 

Chinese, Russian, and Arabic ships were originally inspired by Cold Navy's Mauridian Empire, but the business closed before I could get any of those ships. I was able to get a few Battle Fleet Gothic Ships (I could only find Ork and Dark Eldar ships). I also recently was able to get some Star Blazers and Aerotech ships to supplement them. I had to rename them, using more terrestrial.

 

Kirov Class Battlecruiser

Beijing Class Heavy Cruiser

Dongfanghong I Class Heavy Cruiser

Vostok Class Light Cruiser

Luna Class Light Cruiser

Jiangxi Class Guided Missile Destroyer

Buran Class Frigate

Corsair Class Frigate

 

Then there are these ships, which are mostly an homage to other sci-fi shows and games.

 

Yamato Class Battlecruiser (homage to Space Battlecruiser Yamato)

Beowulf Class Freighter (homage to GDW's Traveller)

Princess Class Space Liner (not actually an homage, but I needed a civilian transport)

[tkdguy]

Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign

 

I may incorporate some of the factions in Ground Zero Games' Full Thrust Universe. There will be a few changes, and the factions would be in its early stages. Note that the USA and Israel are unchanged in my universe.

 

New Anglian Confederation (NAC): The UK is becoming increasingly disillusioned with the EU and is considering leaving the coalition. Having settled its differences with Ireland amicably, it also reaffirms its ties with its commonwealths (particularly Canada, Australia, and New Zealand) and the USA.

 

Eurasian Solar Union (ESU): Hard-liners retake control of most of the former Soviet republics and Korea, backed by China. These nations form a new coalition to counter the western powers.

 

Federal Stats Europa (FSE): The EU is splitting over unreconciled differences. The FSE is the faction led by France.

 

New Swabian League (NSL): This is the EU faction led by Germany.

 

Islamic Federation (IF): Formed by several nations in the Middle East, it is not yet a spacefaring power. It has a few spacecraft, bought from China and Russia.

 

Pacific Rim Alliance (PRA): Fearing Chinese expansion, Japan forms an alliance with ASEAN nations. It is mainly an economic alliance, but it is also meant to defend its territories. This actually comes from the GURPS Transhuman Space setting rather than the Full Thrust setting.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign

 

A just as creepy but lower tech version is the Brain-in-a-Jar approach.

With not too far beyond modern tech, you should be able to keep a brain on life support. Tapping into the appropriate locations would allow feedback and communication, possibly even a totally virtual environment all networked into a real "Second Life".

This would be a great way to keep critically damaged crew from occupying too many resources until you can get them to full fledged medical facilities, and from there it's not too far to seeing brains transplanted into the bodies of condemned criminals as the ultimate form of recycling.

Heck, if you're feeling "humane" you could even keep the criminal's brain alive, being subjected to a therapy "program" to readjust the recidivism traits, before being partially integrated into the dead-net on sort of a work release program (monitor the waste recycling systems or something).

 

I'd rep you, but it's too soon since I emptied my repstick. Perhaps someone else will be so kind...?

 

....Not to mention that is the process becomes 'acceptable' by the population. Over generations, might the line between what crimes are severe enough to justify forced labor status be influenced by need or agenda? And in the case of Judicial Zombification (JZ). The possibility of the process being more convenient long term might lower the criteria even more.

 

Not to mention the idea of detaining and sentencing 'foreign' skilled labor.

 

The old saying 'it's a slippery road...' comes to mind.

 

Reminds me of the "organlegging" that took place in some of Larry Niven's stories. Originally, only capital crimes such as murder were punishable by "parting out" convicted criminals. As demand for body parts outstripped supply, society's punishments for various crimes became harsher, and the number of crimes which could result in disassembly expanded to include fairly minor crimes (by today's standards) such as jaywalking or, presumably, spitting on the sidewalk. The demand for replacement parts became so great as to support a thriving black market in human body parts. Of course, while it made for an interesting story premise, I'd like to think that even the rich are not so morally bankrupt as to assume that people below a certain economic level exist only as an exploitable resource.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign

 

I'd rep you' date=' but it's too soon since I emptied my repstick. Perhaps someone else will be so kind...?[/quote']

I appreciate the appreciation anyway

 

Reminds me of the "organlegging" that took place in some of Larry Niven's stories. Originally, only capital crimes such as murder were punishable by "parting out" convicted criminals. As demand for body parts outstripped supply, society's punishments for various crimes became harsher, and the number of crimes which could result in disassembly expanded to include fairly minor crimes (by today's standards) such as jaywalking or, presumably, spitting on the sidewalk. The demand for replacement parts became so great as to support a thriving black market in human body parts. Of course, while it made for an interesting story premise, I'd like to think that even the rich are not so morally bankrupt as to assume that people below a certain economic level exist only as an exploitable resource.

 

My optimistic side agrees with your final sentence.

My pessimistic side looks at the behaviors of the wealthy and powerful and isn't very comforted...

[tkdguy]

Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign

 

That organlegging stuff is nasty! It can make for a good adventure hook, however, if it's an illegal activity.

[input.jack]

Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign

 

To return to the idea of Zombification....if its done by implanting a chip which suppresses the convict's personality and makes them want to be docile and helpful, if the process is reversible, then there would be less risk of "killing the wrong person". If later evidence exhonerates the person, then their chip can be removed and they are "returned" to normal life. Although they have lost the intervening time, this seems preferrable to being dead.

 

That said, the idea that some people might figure out ways to abuse the "zombified" convicts seems likely, if they have access and opportunity. Imagine a construction company using "zombified" labor on the side, and paying them nothing, while kicking back half of the money they save to the local Sheriff who lets them "borrow" the convicts...

 

Its a fool-proof plan, till one of the Zombies dies in a work-site accident...

[tkdguy]

Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign

 

I expect there will a lot of legal challenges to zombification. Many civil liberties groups would probably be opposed to it.

 

Still, that would be another plot seed, no?

[tkdguy]

Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign

 

Here are a couple of brief extraterrestrial colony write-ups for you.

 

Armstrong Colony

 

Founded in 2020 on Mare Tranquilitatis, Armstrong station is Earth's first permanent off-world colony. Located near the Apollo 11 landing, it is a popular tourist attraction. It is also a major mining center, and is the site of the lunar mass driver. Most importantly, it is a center of immigration and is almost always the first stop of colonists, whether they plan to settle on the Moon or beyond. The American population likes to refer to Armstrong Colony as "Ellis Island in space." An international community, it was the first extraterrestrial colony to reach a population of one million. The central government is composed of international delegates and makes its headquarters in Aldrin Square, on Collins Avenue (What, did you think I'd leave out the rest of the Apollo 11 crew?).

 

 

Seaview Colony

 

Seaview (my tribute to the old show Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea) is located under Cilix Crater in Europa. Founded by the EU, it began a scientific community dedicated to searching for life in the tiny moon. However, it became a center of trade and supplies water and ice to the other colonies in the Jovian system.

 

I recently thought about having the colony attached to the bottom of the icy surface instead of the ocean floor (it is still submerged, however). I was wondering how deep the subsuface ocean would be (assuming Europa has one), and how thick the ice on the surface is.

[tkdguy]

Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign

 

Here are a few more musings I had today:

 

Life in the space stations.

 

Space stations rotate, providing artificial gravity to the residents. A day/night cycle is simulated for the colonists; the entire station will have a single time zone. Water and air will be recycled, as will most other products. There will be areas set aside for plants and animals. Their natural habitats would be reconstructed.

 

 

Plants and animals in space

 

Plants and animals kept in space stations would have no problem adapting to their new homes. But would they be able to thrive in low-g environments? It may be possible to bioengineer them to be able to adapt, but would it be ethical to do so? Would it be necessary to have them? Are pets allowed, or would only livestock be considered?

 

Another idea is to have stations that are preservations for species whose natural habitats are dwindling. Naturally, zoos and greenhouses on earth would be best suited, but if there is no room for them, would a space station be a viable alternative? And there's always the cost of bringing them to outer space to consider.

 

 

Searching for life

 

Scientists are already searching for life on Mars, and they are speculating about finding life in Europa and Enceladus. What types of life forms are we expecting? Obviously, we're thinking of microbes, but what would they be like? And what would the protocols for studying them be? Would it be illegal to colonize an area where life has been found?

 

In my campaign, living organisms will probably not be found. I'm not averse to the idea of finding life outside Earth; I just don't want to have to deal with having to think up these creatures. That's not where I want to take my campaign. Having said that, should anybody want to use some of the ideas on this thread, feel free to change this.

[tkdguy]

Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign

 

I just found Buzz Aldrin's website. It has some interesting stuff there, including his designs for a space station and an Earth-Mars spacecraft.

[Basil]

Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign

 

A few notes on some of your proposed colonies.

 

 

Mercury

Colony: Vulcan

Established: 2052

Location: Geosynchronous orbit above Caloris Basin

 

Given that Mercury's day is ~2/3 its year, a synchronous orbit would be so far away that Sol would have an overwhelmingly more powerful gravitational attraction. In short, your colony would land up orbiting Sol, not Mercury.

 

Venus

Colony: Neith

Established: 2044

Location: Geosynchronous orbit above Aphrodite Terra

As above, only more so, as Venus rotates retrograde.

 

Earth

Colony: Peacekeeper

Location: L1

 

Colony: New Discovery

Location: L2

 

Colony: Antichthon (lit. "Counter-Earth")

Location: L3

 

Colony: Shenzhou

Location: L4

 

Colony: Glasnost

Location: L4

 

Colony: Gagarin

Location: L4

 

Colony: Zedong

Location: L4

 

Colony: Goddard

Location: L5

 

Colony: Lagrange

Location: L5

 

Colony: Tyr

Location: L5

 

Colony: Asimov

Location: L5

 

Two points:

1) Are you talking about Earth-Luna Lagrange points, or Sol-Earth Lagrange points?

2) Only L4 and L5 points are usefully stable: L1, L2, and L3 are stable only in the theoretical situation where (A) the second body's orbit is utterly circular and ( there are only three bodies in the universe. With Luna's orbit not being a perfect circle and with other bodies (particularly Sol) pulling on anything in the first 3 Lagrange points, such stations would need to expend a boatload of propellant staying "on station".

 

Colony: Sagan

Established: 2033

Location: Chryse Planitia

Country: International

Type: Domed City (originally subterranean)

Population: 2,500,000

Notes: Site of the Martian beanstalk, best Szechuan cuisine on Mars

I suggest you double check; as far as I can find out, Chryse Planitia is not on Mars's equator.

 

Asteroids

Colony: Belters, Inc.

Location: Ceres

Notes: Rotating crew, serve 12-18 months before shipping home

 

Colony: Kamakura Mining Co.

Location: Ceres

Notes: Rotating crew, serve 12-18 months before shipping home

Unless your setting has ships with enough power and enough propellant capacity to not use Hohmann orbits, they'll be there a whole lot longer.

 

Jupiter

Colony: Shoemaker-Levy

Location: Geosynchronous orbit around Jupiter's southern hemisphere

Not possible; synchronous orbits have to have an average "latitude" of the equator. You can have one that goes as far south as the Red Spot, but it will go as far north, as well.

 

Colony: New Kyoto

Location: Geosynchronous orbit above Jupiter's southern hemisphere

See last.

 

Colony: Fermi-Dirac

Location: Toutatis

That "chaotic" rotation will make landing and take-off ludicrously difficult, if possible at all. And its mass is high enough that "regularizing" the rotation is impractical.

 

Saturn

Colony: Einstein

Location: Geosynchronous orbit over Saturn

I don't have enough information to be sure, but my gut feeling is a synchronous orbit will be inside the rings.

 

BTW, "geosynchronous" is only used WRT Earth. "Synchronous" can be applied to any body, without having to figure out the proper Greek-/Latin-derived term.

 

Colony: New Horizon

Location: Geosynchrous orbit above Saturn

 

Colony: Nihonmachi

Location: Geosynchrous orbit above Saturn's North Pole

 

Colony: Dyson

Location: Geosynchrous orbit above Saturn opposite New Horizon

See last.

[tkdguy]

Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign

 

Thanks for your input, Basil. I'll do some revisions.

[Nyrath]

Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign

 

Plants and animals kept in space stations would have no problem adapting to their new homes. But would they be able to thrive in low-g environments? It may be possible to bioengineer them to be able to adapt, but would it be ethical to do so? Would it be necessary to have them? Are pets allowed, or would only livestock be considered?

 

Another idea is to have stations that are preservations for species whose natural habitats are dwindling. Naturally, zoos and greenhouses on earth would be best suited, but if there is no room for them, would a space station be a viable alternative? And there's always the cost of bringing them to outer space to consider.

It might be possible to justify cats as "working animals" instead of "pets."

You know if there is a lot of cargo shipped up from Terra, eventually some mice and rats will stowaway their way into the station.

 

I saw some proposals for making species preservation habitats in space, but they were placing them on Luna, not in free fall. They were roofing over medium sized craters.

http://oceania.org/images/plate8.jpg

[tkdguy]

Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign

 

Thanks, Nyrath! I can't rep you yet, but I will soon.

 

Hmmm, if livestock are available, then dogs can be used as working animals too.

 

Perhaps Vulcan and Neith would orbit their respective planets the way the ISS currently revolves around the Earth. Maybe that will work better.

 

As for the beanstalk on Sagan, would a space fountain be a better fit?

 

Also, I just bought one of Robert Zubrin's books, How to Live on Mars. I just started reading it, so I'll see how much I can use.