Spence Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign I would also avoid judgments based on current practice. Take crime, while we may be content to allow multiple murders before reluctantly deciding to inconvenience a rabid murderer by life in prison at our expense. A close society with extremely limited resources will tend to be less forgiving and tend to be more harsh in final judgement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdguy Posted June 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign I would also avoid judgments based on current practice. Take crime, while we may be content to allow multiple murders before reluctantly deciding to inconvenience a rabid murderer by life in prison at our expense. A close society with extremely limited resources will tend to be less forgiving and tend to be more harsh in final judgement. I was thinking along those lines. As for dead bodies, I was thinking about a burial in space type of deal. Spacecraft may have a section for storing the dead until they get to their destination. Ship doctors may treat the bodies so that they decompose more slowly. Does space affect the decomposition rate of corpses? Not to my knowledge, but I may be wrong. Still tweaking the numbers. It's apparent my time frame is WAY too optimistic; I may change the timeline. I've also been thinking about changing many of the names to more appropriate names. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign Take crime' date=' while we may be content to allow multiple murders before reluctantly deciding to inconvenience a rabid murderer by life in prison at our expense. [/quote'] Um... what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign I was thinking along those lines. As for dead bodies, I was thinking about a burial in space type of deal. Spacecraft may have a section for storing the dead until they get to their destination. Ship doctors may treat the bodies so that they decompose more slowly. Does space affect the decomposition rate of corpses? Not to my knowledge, but I may be wrong. Still tweaking the numbers. It's apparent my time frame is WAY too optimistic; I may change the timeline. I've also been thinking about changing many of the names to more appropriate names. I just had a somewhat creepy thought concerning capital punishment. If you have Blade Runner level bio-tech, you could always yank out an offenders brain and replace it with an artificial one. The body is a machine. Why scrap the whole machine when you can just swap out a "defective" processor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdguy Posted June 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign Bio-tech isn't that advanced in my campaign. People may still be trying to accomplish it, however. Hmmm.... adventure seed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign A just as creepy but lower tech version is the Brain-in-a-Jar approach. With not too far beyond modern tech, you should be able to keep a brain on life support. Tapping into the appropriate locations would allow feedback and communication, possibly even a totally virtual environment all networked into a real "Second Life". This would be a great way to keep critically damaged crew from occupying too many resources until you can get them to full fledged medical facilities, and from there it's not too far to seeing brains transplanted into the bodies of condemned criminals as the ultimate form of recycling. Heck, if you're feeling "humane" you could even keep the criminal's brain alive, being subjected to a therapy "program" to readjust the recidivism traits, before being partially integrated into the dead-net on sort of a work release program (monitor the waste recycling systems or something). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyrath Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign I'm not so certain. People can be very sentimental' date=' and turning grandpa into compost or building blocks isn't going to go over well with many people, at least not without a massive cultural change.[/quote'] Well, yes, but circumstances alter cases. For example, the Donner party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyrath Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign As for dead bodies' date=' I was thinking about a burial in space type of deal. Spacecraft may have a section for storing the dead until they get to their destination. Ship doctors may treat the bodies so that they decompose more slowly. Does space affect the decomposition rate of corpses? Not to my knowledge, but I may be wrong.[/quote'] Depends upon what you mean exactly by "space." A corpse in the pressurized habitat of a spaceship will rot just as fast as one on Earth, free fall or no. In fact, it might rot faster if the atmospheric breathing mix is richer in oxygen. But if you put the corpse in the vacuum of space, it will rapidly turn into a dessicated mummy, and stay that way indefinitely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdguy Posted June 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign Maybe an unpressurized chamber in the spaceship can be used. I posted a Donner Party-type of adventure in my hard sci-fi adventures thread. I haven't had the chance to try it out, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyrath Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign Maybe an unpressurized chamber in the spaceship can be used. Who needs an unpressurized chamber? Wrap the bodies in a burial shroud, tie a vacuum-proof rope to a limb, tie the other end to a magnet, push the body out an airlock, and attach the magnet to the hull next to the airlock. Done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdguy Posted June 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign That's an interesting idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign If slightly morbid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyrath Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign That's an interesting idea! Yeah, I wish is was original. Isaac Asimov had it in his novel THE STARS, LIKE DUST in 1951. It's not like the vacuum storage really needs walls around it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyrath Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign If slightly morbid. Yes, but a little less morbid than the moral hit the crew will suffer, cooped up in the confines of the spaceship while knowing that the corpse of Joe is cooling on the slab in the next compartment. Out of sight, out of mind, and all that. If there were no pressing need to harvest the body's mineral components, it would be best to jettison it. But remember DUNE: "...but a man's water belongs to the tribe" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdguy Posted June 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign I'm still working on the numbers, since a lot of my figures are too unrealistic. It's one thing to be optimistic, but I went overboard. Anyway, I looked at this website to get a better picture on space colonies. I heard about the types of space stations listed here, in addition to the Von Braun Wheel. These are all represented in my campaign. But I just heard of newer models like the Lewis One and Kalpana One structures. Maybe I'll include those, as well as the Asten space station. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign Well in my somewhat suspect opinion , the answers to many of these questions are actually dependent on the population densities. The larger the population and the easier resources are to obtain, the ‘softer’ the response. Just looking back through history, a colony that is on the edge of survival isn’t going to waste resources on the criminal element. Lesser crime will result in punishment, labor or banishment. The capitol crimes, murder, rape, etc, will result in swift execution. Only when a population reaches a level of stability and luxury do we see the appearance of groups that wish to ‘save’ murderers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign Well in my somewhat suspect opinion , the answers to many of these questions are actually dependent on the population densities. The larger the population and the easier resources are to obtain, the ‘softer’ the response. Just looking back through history, a colony that is on the edge of survival isn’t going to waste resources on the criminal element. Lesser crime will result in punishment, labor or banishment. The capitol crimes, murder, rape, etc, will result in swift execution. Only when a population reaches a level of stability and luxury do we see the appearance of groups that wish to ‘save’ murderers. Even though these are people who are going to be our descendants, and not the of the people who used to just execute or maim most criminals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign Even though these are people who are going to be our descendants' date=' and not the of the people who used to just execute or maim most criminals?[/quote'] I don't think I am following you exactly, so I assume a serious question. If you are in limited environment with limited resources for basic life, such as air, water, etc. where you actually have people dying due to complications directly attributable to that same lack of resources you will not waste them on anyone who is a danger to the society as a whole. When the question becomes trading the health and life of newborns and children so that you can divert critical life support and resources to keep a handful of murderers or rapists alive. Well not many people will say 'kill the kids so we can save the convicts'. On the other hand, if the colony is large enough and established enough with a large enough surplus to where this is not the case, then there will be a tendency to warehouse criminal and dump resources into attempts to ‘rehabilitate’. And if it goes on you can have what we do today in the real world, a rotating door of crime/release/do it again/release/do it again as well as vast self contain cities with hundreds of thousands of repeat criminals. It is all in the population level and density. Just because it is to take place in the future does not mean that the population levels of the individual colonies have to be in the millions or even hundreds of thousands. Even a physically large colony may not be able to actually support a large population. It may take many times the area of livable ‘surface’ to provide support per person than what we think of as needed on a planet. After all on a planet there are vast areas of surface that are not actually populated, especially if you include the oceans and ‘hostile’ areas such as the arctic that all tie into that ‘support’ even if it is just the air. In a truly closed environment the problems and necessities will be much more critical. With a bad incident on Earth, it will either dissipate eventually or you can relocate. But on a colony, a critical failure will kill you. Unless it is Star Trek the New Generation of course. They would only need to ask the computer, click a few buttons and everything would be fixed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdguy Posted June 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign Posting links to a few related threads: Martian Airplanes Rail gun damage Hard sci-fi adventures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign I don't think I am following you exactly, so I assume a serious question. If you are in limited environment with limited resources for basic life, such as air, water, etc. where you actually have people dying due to complications directly attributable to that same lack of resources you will not waste them on anyone who is a danger to the society as a whole. When the question becomes trading the health and life of newborns and children so that you can divert critical life support and resources to keep a handful of murderers or rapists alive. Well not many people will say 'kill the kids so we can save the convicts'. On the other hand, if the colony is large enough and established enough with a large enough surplus to where this is not the case, then there will be a tendency to warehouse criminal and dump resources into attempts to ‘rehabilitate’. And if it goes on you can have what we do today in the real world, a rotating door of crime/release/do it again/release/do it again as well as vast self contain cities with hundreds of thousands of repeat criminals. I can see your point, if the people in the setting are willing to risk killing someone because of a mistaken conviction, only to find out later that they "spaced" (or whatever) an innocent man. Unlike people of the past, who for whatever reasons seemed to firmly believe in the idea that the guilty were being caught and punished, the people of the future have in their hindsight our experiences with just how often the wrong person ends up punished. On the other hand, even now, with that knowledge freely available and mounds of evidence staring us in the face, many otherwise intelligent and educated people have an unswerving faith in the "justice system" to find and punish the actual guilty parties. So perhaps, after all, I'm engaging in wishful thinking in objecting to your suggestion regarding this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign I don't think I am following you exactly, so I assume a serious question. If you are in limited environment with limited resources for basic life, such as air, water, etc. where you actually have people dying due to complications directly attributable to that same lack of resources you will not waste them on anyone who is a danger to the society as a whole. When the question becomes trading the health and life of newborns and children so that you can divert critical life support and resources to keep a handful of murderers or rapists alive. Well not many people will say 'kill the kids so we can save the convicts'. On the other hand, if the colony is large enough and established enough with a large enough surplus to where this is not the case, then there will be a tendency to warehouse criminal and dump resources into attempts to ‘rehabilitate’. And if it goes on you can have what we do today in the real world, a rotating door of crime/release/do it again/release/do it again as well as vast self contain cities with hundreds of thousands of repeat criminals. It is all in the population level and density. Just because it is to take place in the future does not mean that the population levels of the individual colonies have to be in the millions or even hundreds of thousands. Even a physically large colony may not be able to actually support a large population. It may take many times the area of livable ‘surface’ to provide support per person than what we think of as needed on a planet. After all on a planet there are vast areas of surface that are not actually populated, especially if you include the oceans and ‘hostile’ areas such as the arctic that all tie into that ‘support’ even if it is just the air. In a truly closed environment the problems and necessities will be much more critical. With a bad incident on Earth, it will either dissipate eventually or you can relocate. But on a colony, a critical failure will kill you. Unless it is Star Trek the New Generation of course. They would only need to ask the computer, click a few buttons and everything would be fixed IOW, mercy is a luxury item Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawnmower Boy Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign Conversely, punishment might be seen as a luxury. Execute your best pipefitter just because he murdered or raped someone? That's just crazy sentimentality. Work it out somehow, the perpetrator's friends would say. And do you reallly want to risk dividing the colony by pushing the issue? Looking at how actual small societies handle serious crimes, I would suggest that this is a much more likely scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign Conversely' date=' [i']punishment [/i]might be seen as a luxury. Execute your best pipefitter just because he murdered or raped someone? That's just crazy sentimentality. Work it out somehow, the perpetrator's friends would say. And do you reallly want to risk dividing the colony by pushing the issue? Looking at how actual small societies handle serious crimes, I would suggest that this is a much more likely scenario. Giving into popular opinion and/or letting criminals get away with major crimes because "they're too valuable to punish" is going to annihilate morale and factionalize crew just as badly as the execution would. It's kind of a matter of what sort of social damage you're willing to let the crime inflict on a long term scale. I suspect some sort of "docilization" device, procedure, or chemical would be the likely best-of-all-bad-options. Judicial Zombification. "Something's wrong with the #3 reactor. Take a security team to go collect Jones and wake his zombie ass up to fix it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdguy Posted June 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign Forced labor for criminals may become an option if manpower is dangerously short. They would still be isolated from the other colonists, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdguy Posted June 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 Re: My mostly hard sci-fi campaign Finally, here are the populations! I included the location, year the colony was established, type of structure, and some notes to distinguish the colonies. Space station come in four types: Von Braun Wheels, Bernal Spheres, Stanford Toruses, and O'Neill Cylinders. Von Braun Wheels hold less than 10,000 people. Bernal Spheres and Stanford Toruses hold between 10 to 100 thousand people. O'Neill Cylinders can hold between 3 to 10 million people, but tend toward the smaller limit. Ground-based colonies are either domed structures (the more advanced ones) or subterranean. There is an underwater colony in Europa and perhaps in Enceladus. Mercury Colony: Vulcan Established: 2052 Location: Geosynchronous orbit above Caloris Basin Country: International Type: Von Braun Wheel Population: 2,000 (mostly non-permanent staff) Notes: Scientific outpost used to study Mercury and the Sun Venus Colony: Neith Established: 2044 Location: Geosynchronous orbit above Aphrodite Terra Country: International Type: Stanford Torus Population: 30,000 Notes: Named after Venus' fictional moon, includes international team of scientists attempting to terraform Venus Earth Colony: Armstrong Established: 2020 Location: Mare Tranquilitatis, near the Apollo 11 landing Country: International Type: Domed City Population: 2,150,000 Notes: Tourist attraction, large mining industry Colony: Clarke Established: 2028 Location: Archimedes Crater, Mare Imbrium Country: International Type: Subterranean Population: 1,125,000 Notes: Large scientific community, corresponds with Rimtown Colony: Clavius Established: 2025 Location: Clavius Crater Country: International Type: Domed City Population: 575,000 Notes: Major spaceport, site of the lunar mass driver Colony: Tycho Established: 2044 Location: Tycho Crater Country: International Type: Domed City Population: 410,000 Notes: Site of the Great Ray Crater, tourist attraction Colony: Rimtown Established: 2029 Location: Tsiolkovskii Crater Country: International Type: Subterranean Population: 23,500 Notes: Only colony in the Moon's far side Colony: Peacekeeper Established: 2042 Location: L1 Country: United Nations Type: Von Braun Wheel Population: 1,000 Notes: UN peacekeeping force, often undermannned Colony: New Discovery Established: 2040 Location: L2 Country: International Type: Von Braun Wheel Population: 2,700 Notes: International Observatory Colony: Antichthon (lit. "Counter-Earth") Established: 2050 Location: L3 Country: USA Type: Von Braun Wheel Population: 5,000 Notes: Destruction in 2076 precipitates the Solar System War Colony: Shenzhou Established: 2027 Location: L4 Country: China Type: O'Neill Cylinder Population: 8,000,000 Notes: Large industrial section, produces Chinese military and civilian spacecraft Colony: Glasnost Established: 2048 Location: L4 Country: Russia Type: Bernal Sphere Population: 20,000 Notes: Residential/commercial station, large population from Cental Asia Colony: Gagarin Established: 2034 Location: L4 Country: Russia Type: Stanford Torus Population: 45,000 Notes: Produces Russian military and civilian spacecraft Colony: Zedong Established: 2030 Location: L4 Country: China Type: O'Neill Cylinder Population: 2,250,000 Notes: Large Vietnamese and Korean populations, known for its "street food" style eateries Colony: Goddard Established: 2032 Location: L5 Country: USA, Canada Type: Bernal Sphere Population: 30,000 Notes: Thriving entertainment industry Colony: Lagrange Established: 2031 Location: L5 Country: EU Type: Stanford Torus Population: 50,000 Notes: Old World atmosphere, known for its French cuisine, also has colonists from Asia and Africa Colony: Tyr Established: 2067 Location: L5 Country: USA, EU, Canada, Australia, New Zealand Type: O'Neill Cylinder Population: 8,000,000 Notes: Large military, industrial centers, produces NATO and ANZAC military spacecraft Colony: Asimov Established: 2051 Location: L5 Country: International Type: Stanford Torus Population: 60,000 Notes: Major commercial center, produces civilian spacecraft Mars Colony: Hellas (failed) Established: 2031, abandoned 2032 Location: Hellas Planitia Country: International Type: Subterranean Population: 0 Notes: First attempt at colonizing Mars Colony: Sagan Established: 2033 Location: Chryse Planitia Country: International Type: Domed City (originally subterranean) Population: 2,500,000 Notes: Site of the Martian beanstalk, best Szechuan cuisine on Mars Colony: Bradbury Established: 2041 Location: Solis Planum Country: USA Type: Subterranean Population: 4,000,000 Notes: Industrial colony, processed ore often shipped off-world Colony: Novgorod Established: 2039 Location: Hesperia Planum Country: Russia Type: Domed City Population: 3,000,000 Notes: Becoming increasingly militarized, missile silo suspected of being built there Colony: New Havana Established: 2056 Location: Elysium Mons Country: Cuba Type: Domed City Population: 45,000 Notes: Cuba's only extraterrestrial colony, has a platoon of soldiers, home to many people tired of Communist rule Colony: Dao Established: 2035 Location: Dao Planum Country: China Type: Subterranean Population: 5,000,000 Notes: Large military contingent, including an armored division Colony: Bova Established: 2042 Location: Cimmeria Terra Country: International Type: Domed City Population: 745,000 Notes: Center of Martian terraforming project Colony: Boyington Established: 2060 Location: Lunae Planum Country: USA Type: Domed City Population: 123,000 Notes: USMC base Colony: Newton Established: 2069 Location: Newton Crater Country: EU Type: Domed City Population: 250,000 Notes: RAF squadron, tours to Olympus Mons Colony: Deimos Established: 2070 Location: Deimos Country: International Type: Subterranean Population: 25,000 Notes: Most colonists from India, New Zealand Asteroids Colony: Belters, Inc. Established: 2045 Location: Ceres Country: International Type: Subterranean Population: 1,500 (temporary) Notes: Rotating crew, serve 12-18 months before shipping home Colony: Kamakura Mining Co. Established: 2045 Location: Ceres Country: Japan Type: Subterranean Population: 500 (temporary) Notes: Rotating crew, serve 12-18 months before shipping home Colony: Hawking Established: 2039 Location: Vesta Country: International Type: Subterranean, but has small dome above surface Population: 400 maximum, often unmanned Notes: Has large observatory, often used to train people to live in deep space Colony: Pax Mundi Established: 2062 Location: Pallas Country: United Nations Type: Subterranean Population: 800 Notes: Peacekeeping forces stationed here, often undermanned Jupiter Colony: Shoemaker-Levy Established: 2050 Location: Geosynchronous orbit around Jupiter's southern hemisphere Country: USA, Canada Type: Stanford Torus Population: 20,000 Notes: Tourist attraction, great view of Jupiter's Great Red Spot Colony: Korolyov Established: 2052 Location: Asgard Basin, Callisto Country: Russia, Ukraine Type: Subterranean Population: 15,000 Notes: Some friction between Russian and Ukrainian colonists Colony: Xinhua Established: 2058 Location: Osiris Crater, Ganymede Country: China Type: Subterranean Population: 23,000 Notes: Scientific outpost, trade with New Horizon and Korolyov Colony: Galileo Established: 2053 Location: Galileo Regio, Ganymede Country: USA Type: Subterranean Population: 19,800 Notes: Polymer industry, trade with Mars and outer colonies Colony: New Kyoto Established: 2053 Location: Geosynchronous orbit above Jupiter's southern hemisphere Country: Japan Type: Bernal Sphere Population: 30,000 Notes: Tourist attraction, great view of Jupiter's Great Red Spot Colony: Terranova Established: 2073 Location: Elara Country: Argentina, Brazil Type: Subterranean Population: 6,000 Notes: Also has colonists from other South American nations, isolationist tendencies Colony: Seaview Established: 2061 Location: Under Cilix Crater, Europa Country: EU Type: Underwater Population: 4,000 Notes: Supplies water to Jovian system, scientists searching for life under the sea Colony: Fermi-Dirac Established: 2049 Location: Toutatis Country: EU Type: Subterranean Population: 3,000 Notes: Mushroom/truffle industry, trades with Mars, outer colonies Saturn Colony: Einstein Established: 2061 Location: Geosynchronous orbit over Saturn Country: International Type: Von Braun Wheel Population: 5,000 Notes: Scientific outpost searchng for life Colony: Hubble Established: 2065 Location: Xanadu Region, Titan Country: International Type: Subterranean Population: 3,500 Notes: Exports methane to Jupiter and Saturn systems Colony: Marcy Established: 2068 Location: Sarandib Planitia, Enceladus Country: USA Type: Subterranean (Underwater?) Population: 250 Notes: Supplies water to Saturn system, search for life Colony: Cassini Established: 2069 Location: Dido Crater, Dione Country: EU Type: Subterranean Population: 420 Notes: Exports He-3 mined from Saturn Colony: Terminus Established: 2073 Location: Herschel Crater, Mimas Country: Russia Type: Subterranean Population: 1,200 Notes: Penal colony, inmates forced to build gigantic coil gun Colony: New Horizon Established: 2071 Location: Geosynchrous orbit above Saturn Country: China Type: Stanford Torus Population: 25,000 Notes: Great view of Saturn's rings, has a squadron of fighters Colony: Nihonmachi Established: 2073 Location: Geosynchrous orbit above Saturn's North Pole Country: Japan Type: Bernal Sphere Population: 20,000 Notes: Tourist attraction, great view of Saturn's hexagon Colony: Dyson Established: 2074 Location: Geosynchrous orbit above Saturn opposite New Horizon Country: USA Type: Bernal Sphere Population: 30,000 Notes: Secretly has a squadron of fighters Total number of colonists: 41, 651,870 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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