Intuitive Knowledge

[Vestnik]

Greetings o enlightened superbeings!

 

I've got a question. I'm making a character (a technological manipulator) who has an instinctive understanding of technology. It is INSTINCTIVE, not rational. He could fix a machine, or figure out how to get a computer to do something, but he doesn't really understand the theory of how he does it (he thinks he's appealing to the Machine Spirits that inhabit machines). So he would be unable to explain it to someone else, to theorize about it, and so forth. He can DO but not UNDERSTAND.

 

What kind of limit would you give for this? I'm thinking -1/2.

 

There is likely something about this in TUS, which I do not have...

[Mike W]

Re: Intuitive Knowledge

 

Greetings o enlightened superbeings!

 

I've got a question. I'm making a character (a technological manipulator) who has an instinctive understanding of technology. It is INSTINCTIVE, not rational. He could fix a machine, or figure out how to get a computer to do something, but he doesn't really understand the theory of how he does it (he thinks he's appealing to the Machine Spirits that inhabit machines). So he would be unable to explain it to someone else, to theorize about it, and so forth. He can DO but not UNDERSTAND.

 

What kind of limit would you give for this? I'm thinking -1/2.

 

There is likely something about this in TUS, which I do not have...

 

Rather than make it a skill, per se. You could just give him a version of Transform "broken item" to "repaired item" or whatever you wanted to call it. Essentially, he has the inate ability to Transform or change the object in question(fix it, or if you want to make it more broad, use a broader category of transform) but he has no skills so he can't explain how it works or even how he did it. He "just did it".

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Intuitive Knowledge

 

There is no limit per se. Just buy only functional skills and don't take any Knowledge Skills related to technology. The rest is just roleplaying.

[Vestnik]

Re: Intuitive Knowledge

 

Rather than make it a skill' date=' per se. You could just give him a version of Transform "broken item" to "repaired item" or whatever you wanted to call it. Essentially, he has the inate ability to Transform or change the object in question(fix it, or if you want to make it more broad, use a broader category of transform) but he has no skills so he can't explain how it works or even how he did it. He "just did it".[/quote']

 

Good idea. But that makes it more effective, rather than less... (and much more expensive!)

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: Intuitive Knowledge

 

I don't know that I even would limit it, honestly. It sounds like SFX, and if the skills still function perfectly for the character then there's not much limitation.

[Vestnik]

Re: Intuitive Knowledge

 

There is no limit per se. Just buy only functional skills and don't take any Knowledge Skills related to technology. The rest is just roleplaying.

 

I'm surprised this didn't occur to me.

 

However, aren't skills like Electronics both functional and entail theoretical knowledge? This guy could for instance fix an appliance, but he couldn't draw up an electrical diagram of it, both of which I imagine the Electronics skill encompasses. Same with Security Systems and so forth.

[Mike W]

Re: Intuitive Knowledge

 

Good idea. But that makes it more effective' date=' rather than less... (and much more expensive!)[/quote']

 

Makes what more effective? Most of the savant types like you described would rarely fail at "normal" tasks. I don't see how Transform makes anything MORE effective. It's a matter of replicating what the character can do. And it isn't necessarily more expensive either. To be able to fix only a small group of things, you would need a couple dice of minor transform since you would old have to apply it to the "broken" part of the machine. If you want to fix large groups of things, well, that would be taking the place of large groups of skills, so in the end, I don't know as the cost difference is really as great as you may think.

 

On the other hand, generally speaking, most science/technology skills have an application version of the skill(e.g. - Electronics) and a theory based version (e.g. - Electrical Engineering) but as you pointed out, there is always a bit of overlap with both. You generally need a little theory to be able to handle the application things and you need to have a bit of general knowhow to design things.

 

I suppose you could do a take off on Universal Translator and call it Universal Mechanic. For 20 or 30 points, depending on how useful it would be, the character can intuitively fix ANYTHING given enough time and the proper equipment. Of course, the character can't explain WHY it works and may occasionally arrive at very odd solutions which may make future repairs more difficult.

[Vestnik]

Re: Intuitive Knowledge

 

Hmm, good points all -thanks. I think I will eliminate the Limitation idea.

[Manic Typist]

Re: Intuitive Knowledge

 

The problem I see with Shrike's approach is that it leaves a lot of Skills to still be purchased. He can fix almost anything, right? Perhaps even alien technology?

 

How about a simple PS: Fix Broken Things? It offers no abilities of PS: Plumbing, Engineering, Electronics, or what-have you. All he can do is fix Broken Things (except for munchkin builds, or course). Let him buy it pretty high (16+), and impose negatives for how bizarre/broken the item is.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Intuitive Knowledge

 

The problem I see with Shrike's approach is that it leaves a lot of Skills to still be purchased. He can fix almost anything, right? Perhaps even alien technology?

 

How about a simple PS: Fix Broken Things? It offers no abilities of PS: Plumbing, Engineering, Electronics, or what-have you. All he can do is fix Broken Things (except for munchkin builds, or course). Let him buy it pretty high (16+), and impose negatives for how bizarre/broken the item is.

 

I don't specify which or how many skills to take, only what kind of skills to take and how to portray the desired "flavor". Whether the person can fix one thing or one million things, the underlying concept is the same. It is pure rp, not something worthy of an actual limitation indicating a functional flaw.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Intuitive Knowledge

 

I'm surprised this didn't occur to me.

 

However, aren't skills like Electronics both functional and entail theoretical knowledge? This guy could for instance fix an appliance, but he couldn't draw up an electrical diagram of it, both of which I imagine the Electronics skill encompasses. Same with Security Systems and so forth.

 

Whether the character believes he cuts the red wire instead of the blue wire because the Machine God likes blue, or because he actually knows what the colors represent it doesn't really matter. If he doesn't suffer an actual penalty to his skill roll for his lack of a logical vs illogical basis its just flavor.

 

Also, Electronics "allows a character to identify, understand, build, repair, and rewire electronic devices". Drawing up schematics would probably be more appropriate to SS: Electrical Engineering.

[Alibear]

Re: Intuitive Knowledge

 

Sounds a lot like SFX to me.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Intuitive Knowledge

 

Take mechanics: if the character could fix a broken car, but not build one from scratch (given time), then that is probably worth a limitation, and -1/2 sounds about right: if the functionality of the skill is reduced, that may be worth a point bonus. Mind you, in practice, or at least, in game, you probably spend far more time fixing cars than scratch building them. so, on balance I'm going to join the chorus and sing, loud and proud*:

 

SFX and role play

These intuitive skills

No points for the limits

But we know that you will.

 

 

*with apopogies to, well, everyone.

[SteveZilla]

Re: Intuitive Knowledge

 

Makes what more effective? Most of the savant types like you described would rarely fail at "normal" tasks. I don't see how Transform makes anything MORE effective. It's a matter of replicating what the character can do. And it isn't necessarily more expensive either. To be able to fix only a small group of things, you would need a couple dice of minor transform since you would old have to apply it to the "broken" part of the machine. If you want to fix large groups of things, well, that would be taking the place of large groups of skills, so in the end, I don't know as the cost difference is really as great as you may think.

 

On the other hand, generally speaking, most science/technology skills have an application version of the skill(e.g. - Electronics) and a theory based version (e.g. - Electrical Engineering) but as you pointed out, there is always a bit of overlap with both. You generally need a little theory to be able to handle the application things and you need to have a bit of general knowhow to design things.

 

I suppose you could do a take off on Universal Translator and call it Universal Mechanic. For 20 or 30 points, depending on how useful it would be, the character can intuitively fix ANYTHING given enough time and the proper equipment. Of course, the character can't explain WHY it works and may occasionally arrive at very odd solutions which may make future repairs more difficult.

 

Since new abilities are not being granted in the fixing of an item, there is the possibility of using Healing instead of Transformation Attack. While 5ER seems to somewhat discourage this use, it doesn't seem to preclude it outright.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Intuitive Knowledge

 

Healing might be something I'd allow, but you might also consider a very literal approach; if the plan is to implore teh machine spirits to get the damn thing working, you could always summon a machine spirit, one that has some repair skills or abilities. One, perhaps, that would take over your body long enough to get the job done.

 

Depends how far you want to take this, but summon, at least 'summon half decent ethereal engineer' isn't likely to be too expensive

[SteveZilla]

Re: Intuitive Knowledge

 

Healing might be something I'd allow' date=' but you might also consider a very literal approach; if the plan is to implore teh machine spirits to get the damn thing working, you could always summon a machine spirit, one that has some repair skills or abilities. One, perhaps, that would take over your body long enough to get the job done.[/quote']

 

So would that be literally a Summon, or just the F/X of a Multiform?

 

Depends how far you want to take this' date=' but summon, at least 'summon half decent ethereal engineer' isn't likely to be too expensive [/quote']

 

Yeah, and I think nobody could afford the points to Summon Scotty.

[Manic Typist]

Re: Intuitive Knowledge

 

I don't specify which or how many skills to take' date=' only [i']what kind[/i] of skills to take and how to portray the desired "flavor". Whether the person can fix one thing or one million things, the underlying concept is the same. It is pure rp, not something worthy of an actual limitation indicating a functional flaw.

 

 

I agree. That's why the limitation that I saw had nothing to do with the fact that it doesn't require a Limitation.

 

To model the effect desired, that could feasibly take a LOT of Skills, etc.

 

 

That's why I suggest a PS: Fix Broken Stuff skill. Fulfills the expectation, no muss no fuss, leaves the rest to RP, allows for situation modifiers... etc.

[Gideon]

Re: Intuitive Knowledge

 

I think that the skills the character needs are Electronics, Mechanics, System Operations, Lock Picking, and Security Systems. He also needs Power.

 

I would honestly build him with a VPP with OIF and define it as "machine intuition". This way if he picks up an alien blaster, he can "instinctively" learn how to use it by examining it for a few moments (IE making his Power Skill Roll and switching points over).

 

He can also "talk" to computers by using telepathy like a cyberpath (just give him a limitation of "needs to interface as normal" meaning he needs to use the keyboard (or other device) just like anyone else would. I'd say a -1/2 {same as gestures throughout}, and possibly even gradual effect.)

 

The skills I wouldn't limit. The reason is, even though he may not be able to draw up schematics, or discuss the theories behind conductivity, he should understand things like the difference between a phillips head and a flat head screwdriver (and be able to communicate them). He should also know things like what pistons, spark-plugs and circuit-boards are (even if he doesn't really understand how they work). Otherwise, while he is under the hood of a car and needs someone to hand him a socket-wrench he won't know what to ask for (and it will get silly fast).

 

If you really think that he should have a limitation due to his inability to understand how he does what he does, I would give him a physical limitation of "unable to communicate how he makes machines do what he wants them to" (probably common, total). It is NOT a psychological limitation, because he literally doesn't know how to communicate the information (like "unfamiliar with human culture")

 

Why am I suddenly getting flashbacks of Wildcat from Disney's Talespin?