A flash in the dark

[Sean Waters]

You know how one thing leads to another? Well, I was writing this thread about LOS and such and I was thinking: I'm Lord of Darkness, right? Not that one. Just someone with Darkness (PI).

 

So, I'm sitting in my darkness field and someone flashes me. The flash sfx are a pulsed photonic emission (a bright light).

 

So, does the flash blind me, because it basically ignores the darkness, which has no direct effect on it, or does the darkness prevent me being flashed because it cuts out all light? Would it make any difference if I didn't have PI on the darkness?

 

OR, and I'm getting to the point here, do we do some sort of weird sfx interaction thing, and if so, how?

 

Do you know what I'm thinking? 9+AP/5 in attacking power as an opposed skill roll against 9+AP/5 in the defending power.

 

So, if it were a 50 point darkness, and a 45 point flash, the flash player (being that 'attacker') rolls 9+(45/5)=18- as an opposed roll against the darkness with 9+(50/5)=19-.

 

If the flash succeeds it doesn't necessarily 'dispel' the darkness or anything, but it does work at full effect on this occasion.

 

What do you think?

[Lord Liaden]

Re: A flash in the dark

 

According to the rulebook description of the Darkness Power, "Flashes which affect the Sense(s) affected by a Darkness field cannot penetrate, and will have no effect in, such a Darkness field." (FREd p. 97)

 

I also found this further clarification in the FAQ:

 

Since Darkness to Sight Group blocks Sight Group Flashes, is a person who’s in such a Darkness field and has Personal Immunity to the Darkness still protected from such Flashes?

 

No. If a person can see through a Darkness to Sight Group somehow (usually because it’s his Darkness and has Personal Immunity), then obviously light is reaching his eyes and that would make him subject to a light-based Flash. And of course, depending on special effects, Darkness to Sight Group might not prevent some types of Flashes (such as those based on pepper spray or a blinding powder) from reaching the eyes of characters inside the Darkness — it’s just that the effect of the Flash adds nothing to the character’s incapacitation unless and until he leaves the Darkness somehow.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: A flash in the dark

 

I dunno. I'd say the darkness cuts out the light. The Lord of Darkness just happens to be able to ignore his own darkness; I would say that doesn't necessarily mean the Flash can. Basically, the Flash stops where the Darkness begins. But I would also say that SFX play a big factor as well.

[Sean Waters]

Re: A flash in the dark

 

According to the rulebook description of the Darkness Power, "Flashes which affect the Sense(s) affected by a Darkness field cannot penetrate, and will have no effect in, such a Darkness field." (FREd p. 97)

 

I also found this further clarification in the FAQ:

 

Since Darkness to Sight Group blocks Sight Group Flashes, is a person who’s in such a Darkness field and has Personal Immunity to the Darkness still protected from such Flashes?

 

No. If a person can see through a Darkness to Sight Group somehow (usually because it’s his Darkness and has Personal Immunity), then obviously light is reaching his eyes and that would make him subject to a light-based Flash. And of course, depending on special effects, Darkness to Sight Group might not prevent some types of Flashes (such as those based on pepper spray or a blinding powder) from reaching the eyes of characters inside the Darkness — it’s just that the effect of the Flash adds nothing to the character’s incapacitation unless and until he leaves the Darkness somehow.

 

Wouldn't it be nice though to have a mechanic allowing you to match one pwoer against another? I mean, sfx can already overcome in some cases: a chemical spray is not going to be stopped by a field that sucks the energy from photons, but why should darkness defined as a smoke grenade stop a flare blinding you if it goes off right next to you? If the smoke is thick enough, I can see that, but then if the flare is brighter, it should probably work anyway. I'm not saying a mechanic should replace sfx adjudication, I'm saying where the sfx are, in effect, counter to each other, the rule decision to have a 10 point darkness field stop a 100 point flash seems extremely arbitrary.

[Wayside]

Re: A flash in the dark

 

If you wanted to house rule something here's a couple suggestions

 

You could just do a straight subtraction of active points:

If the flash has more active points than the darkness then subtract the active points of the darkness from the flash and apply the weakened flash against the defender.

 

Or you could create a mechanic for darkness applying x flash defense to all in it's radius based on the perception modifier or the active points, etc...

[Sean Waters]

Re: A flash in the dark

 

If you wanted to house rule something here's a couple suggestions

 

You could just do a straight subtraction of active points:

If the flash has more active points than the darkness then subtract the active points of the darkness from the flash and apply the weakened flash against the defender.

 

Or you could create a mechanic for darkness applying x flash defense to all in it's radius based on the perception modifier or the active points, etc...

 

The problem I have with tha approach, sensible as it is, is that you are either substantially increaing the utility of darkness, OR you are increasing the cost.

 

Still, i suppose building darkness with some inherent AoE flash defences is a very 'Hero' approach...

[Wayside]

Re: A flash in the dark

 

Well, since darkness normally instantly blocks the flashes entirely, it would actually be decreasing it's utility or cost.

 

I hadn't looked at the darkness power before, but after looking at it and seeing the power blocks all of x sense within the area not imposing a penalty to PER rolls within it, such a mechanic doesn't seem very appropriate at all. Since a flash continues to scale up in power while the darkness remains at a static value, never getting more powerful against a given sense, only increasing in area and class.

 

(My previous assumption was that it gave a PER penalty not 100% blockage)

 

A darkness to sight group 1" radius will always cost 10 points. While a flash will get more and more powerful. Having the flash blow through darkness unless it has a massive radius (which wouldn't be any stronger of a darkness effect, just larger) or affects many other senses (which again wouldn't be any stronger of a darkness effect, just broader) doesn't seem right since there isn't a way for the darkness to get...darker.

 

While it does seem very off to have Darkness to sight group 1" 10 active points give complete immunity to sight group flashes, it also is the only method that seems appropriate given that there is no way to "strengthen" the darkness effect.

[SteveZilla]

Re: A flash in the dark

 

Actually, Darkness doesn't block Flash. What Darkness does is disable the ability of a sense to perceive within that area (regardless of the actual F/X of the Darkness). If the Flash is due to it's F/X delivered purely by perception (like a bright strobe) vs say a more physical F/X (pepper spray/poke in the eyes), then the Darkness "blocks" the Flash because it is not allowing the affected sense to perceive the Flash. This is likely not in the rules, as IMO it's a "common/dramatic sense" thing. It's the same way an opaque Force Wall without any Flash DEF will still block a light-based F/X Flash.

 

If the Flash is not of the "perception only" variety, then there is nothing in the writeup of Darkness that would block it's delivery to the target's senses (AFAIK). Suppose I have a Flash that is defined as "I make your eyeballs momentarily roll up in your head". How's any Darkness (even one defined as a blinding field of light which isn't all that dark...) power going to stop that effect (presuming I can roll a hit, of course)?

[Wayside]

Flashes that affect the Sense(s) affected by a darkness field cannot penetrate' date=' and have no effect in, such a darkness field[/quote']

 

Yes, it does specifically state that it blocks the flash.

 

What you are describing sounds to me like a NND Flash, not just a flash. You are trying to get around game elements by defining your special effect in a strange way. (His sunglasses can't apply their flash defense because i'm rolling his eyes into the back of his head, the darkness does nothing because i'm rolling his eyes into the back of his head)

 

The power you are describing is either an AVLD Flash (mental or power defense) or a NND Flash.

 

EDIT: Granted, there are some flashes that might go through based on common sense/ dramatic effect. (As Liaden and yourself pointed out, something like pepper spray)