Confusion - two possible affects in one power?

[Watchman-BN]

Holy Double Entendres, heroes! The confusion refers to my state of mind as well as power I'm trying to create.

 

I've got a villain named Scatterbrain who has a specific set of mental powers, confusion based primarily.

 

One power is inspired by (but doesn't have to mimic) a D&D confusion spell. It's a Mind Control that can be partially resisted by almsot anyone. If you fail to resist (miss your "saving throw") you mistake friends for enemies and are likely to attack them. If you make the roll (and thus partially resist the effect), you just stand around stupified for a short period of time. Of course, just like regular mind controls, its possible to shrug off the effects entirely with a high enough ego, mental defenses, or a poor roll by the villain.

 

So how do you build a power that can have two effects based on a roll (say, ego roll) a hero makes? Is it two linked mind controls with a limit that the higher one only takes effect with a failed roll (points = ouch)?

 

***Insert clever sig line here***

[GamePhil]

Re: Confusion - two possible affects in one power?

 

Originally posted by Watchman-BN

So how do you build a power that can have two effects based on a roll (say, ego roll) a hero makes? Is it two linked mind controls with a limit that the higher one only takes effect with a failed roll (points = ouch)?

 

Good question. That's certainly my initial response: a large die Mind Control, Attack Your Friends, and a smaller one, Stand There.

 

Hmm...

 

One possibility is Mind Control, Single Command, Act According To The Confusion Spell. This is almost always going to require Ego + 30, because no one likes being confused. This does not have your desired effect for partially making the save, but it does function like D&D's Confusion spell: it doesn't really have a save for half thing, all the possibilities are there if you fail.

 

You could Rapid Fire your Mind Control, with one being "Attack your friends" and the other being "Stand around confused". I'd look a bit askance at that, but it might be all right. Technically, the two shots should be the same command, I believe. You could Autofire it, but the same problem applies.

[Fur Face]

What about using EGO Effects?

 

Continuing with what GamePhil said, why not ask for a "special dispensation" based on the effects roll:

 

If EGO +30 is achieved, then attack your friends

 

If EGO +20 is achieved, then stand around stupified

 

If you bought mind control with a +1 Advantage to simulate this, your GM might find it acceptable.

 

Just my two cents!

[Crimson Arrow]

Just a very quick post and I haven't considered all the ramifications.

 

How about a separate power, being an NND or AVLD attack, or possibly even and EGO Attack, limited so that it does no STUN, and only has a chance of Stunning the character? This would be Linked to the Mind Control and you could add in something about it having no effect unless the dice of attack also exceed EGO by x (x being dependant upon the number of base dice in your attack, how difficult it is to resist the Stun without Mental Defence and how much of a Limitation you want).

 

It also only applies if the Mind Control doesn't achieve a high enough level of success, but I am not sure that's worth any Limitation at all, as this is kind of a "failsafe" power. If you were successful with the Mind Control element, you wouldn't want them Stunned.

 

A Phase might not be long enough to simulate what you are after, though.

 

I'd be inclined to build it as two different Mind Controls, though, especially if the minor "confusion" lasts longer than a Phase (sorry, don't know how the spell works in D&D).

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: What about using EGO Effects?

 

Originally posted by Fur Face

Continuing with what GamePhil said, why not ask for a "special dispensation" based on the effects roll:

 

If EGO +30 is achieved, then attack your friends

 

If EGO +20 is achieved, then stand around stupified

 

If you bought mind control with a +1 Advantage to simulate this, your GM might find it acceptable.

 

The other way to buy this would be two mind controls, the first the "Attack friends" +30, and the second "stand stupefied". A +1 advantage makes this costly enough to be two separate Mind Controls, so I'd lower that advantage. The second Control would only work if the first one failed, and both would be Linked if they must be used together, so the linked power approach should be cheaper.

 

Rather than shoot for two mind controls, why not just make the command variable? ie 12d6 Mind Control, telepathic command, fixed command (don't have the book in front of me, so not sure of the limit) with the fixed command varying round to round at random (same as the D & D spell) between "wander away; no more rolls", "attack nearest person", and "stand stupefied". None of these are desirable iun combat, so you'd likely need Ego +30.

 

hmmm...to really simulate the D&D spell, maybe you need a Continuous attack with automatic breakout after each phase, but this would get really combersome. For example, assume 4 SPEED's. You hit on ph 3, and get Ego +30, command "attack closest target". He does. Ph 6 - he is considered to break out, but another roll takes place because it's continuous. This command is "stand stupefied", but only rolls Ego +10, so the target acts normally. In Phase 9, another random command is rolled, and the effect dice rolled again. And so on until the attack runs its course.

 

I would suggest buying it to no END and have the attack continue until a breakout roll is made based on the first set of effect dice. Like I said, probably too complicated, but it would simulate the spell as I recall it.

[Jeff]

Re: What about using EGO Effects?

 

Originally posted by Fur Face

Continuing with what GamePhil said, why not ask for a "special dispensation" based on the effects roll:

 

If EGO +30 is achieved, then attack your friends

 

If EGO +20 is achieved, then stand around stupified

 

If you bought mind control with a +1 Advantage to simulate this, your GM might find it acceptable.

 

Just my two cents!

 

For a +1 Advantage, I'd certainly hope the GM would find it acceptable - you're paying a huge price for it.

 

It might be better to borrow some advantages from Transform and adapt them to Mind Control. There's a +1/4 Advantage there for a limited range of things into which to Transform the target, and a +1/2 one for partially Transforming the target if you haven't (yet) got enough effect for the full change.

 

A Mind Contol counterpart to Improved Target Group might be Conditional Command - for a +1/4 advantage, the command given the target will depend on the level of effect, for this application - it might depend on another condition for other effects. In this case, you get the "attack your friends" command if you get an EGO + 30 effect roll, or the easier "stand around" one if it falls short of EGO + 30. Throw in a single command limitation to make this the only thing you can do with the Mind Control.

 

A Mind Control counterpart to Partial Transform might be Partial Control. If you don't manage the full power effect you were after, you get some milder version based on what you can manage. If you don't manage "attack your friends", you might pull off "don't support your friends" or "don't attack your enemies"; if you don't manage either of those even, you might get "don't attack your best target" or "don't use your most appropriate attack"; if you don't even manage that, you might get "don't Push your attack".

[Watchman-BN]

Since I'm the GM, I can approve the +1 Advantage if I choose, so no problems there.

 

The problem with doing two mind controls is that I want the MC Command (attack friends or stand around) to be a result of the "saving throw" of the target. If it's just two mind controls, and I buy enough dice to get +30 on most heroes, then some heroes will *always* get +30'd and have no chance to 'make a saving roll' (other than breaking out of the mind control.

 

So I roll, get the +30 level on HeroX, but if she makes an (ego roll -3), she still only gets the "stand around" command.

 

If I do it as two linked MC's, then I'm paying double endurance for something that lessens the power of the Mind Control. Why make it a huge advantage? Can y'all think of instances where it would be more beneficial to attack your teammates than to stand around stupified?

 

I'm leaning toward this:

xd6 Mind Control, Single Command: "Attack Friends as Enemies", Telepathic. Limitation (-1/4) If target makes Ego Roll -3, command becomes "Stand Around Stupified for 3 phases).

[Insaniac99]

how about a low mind control to attack friends, then a entangle, against Ego, not STR. it would be a lower powered one so a strong enough ego could casually break through it. and the Entangle and MC woudl be linked to each other, saving some points, enough that you can make one or the other lower end, also consider you only need a low powered attack on each, just a few dice since he said almost anyone can break through, the first, and very few people have high enough ego to break through even a low level ego based entangle...

 

 

edit: this just seems the easiest way to do anythng.. and simple works for me...

[Watchman-BN]

how about a low mind control to attack friends, then a entangle, against Ego, not STR. it would be a lower powered one so a strong enough ego could casually break through it.

 

Wouldn't that have effects I don't want?

 

1) On a low ego character, I would get +30 on the MC (attack friends) but also the entangle (stand around). The MC wouldn't work because they'd be stuck in the entangle, unable to move.

 

2) On mid--to-high ego characters, it might work out, but only if I can find a pretty consistent level of Mental Paralysis that non-mentalists have a decent chance of breaking.

 

3) On mentalists or very high ego characters, I probably wouldn't get +30 MC or the Mental Paralysis, but that isn't really the problem anyway.

 

Regarding #1, Would others make the 'Mental Paralysis' entangle trump the Mind Control? I think I would, even if the MC was +30 level. If they were trapped in the Ego Entangle, they couldn't move to attack their friends even if they "wanted" to.

[Farkling]

Heh.

 

12d6 Mental Illusions (swap friends for foes, foes for friends)

(cumulative, penetrating)

 

The special effect of the penetration is to overlay "some" of the available targets. As this will occasionally lead to confusion in the target, those affected may simply stand around looking dumbfounded since they cannot accurately pick targets. Cumulative would gradually let you exchange everyone (achieve EGO+20).

 

**This construct would be easier upside down. Standing around stupid is an effect of EGO+30, as the character is disconnected from reality. **

 

Alternatively, a multiple power attack or linked attack.

One Mental Illusion to (exchange friends and foes) linked to a Flash (based on ECV) vs. enough/all perceptual groups. The Flash gets a (-0) limitation for not affecting victims of the Mental Illusions. Flashes frequently cause the "stand around looking stupid" or "disoriented wandering" effect.

Special Effect:: the world is a senseless chaotic blur. Flashing someone for 3 phases is not "too" difficult.

 

if for a villain, a linked set is comepletely valid. It bases on ECV because multiple power attacks are supposed to require an identical Attack roll. The multiple power effect is easily just as valid for the Mind Control construct, for the direct "destroy your friends" effect.

 

There is a subtle difference. A Mind Controlled opponent would exploit the weaknesses of his former teamates. The Illusion affected opponent would exploit the weaknesses of the perceived target.

 

How's that? No more bizarre than any of the others.

[Insaniac99]

Originally posted by Watchman-BN

Wouldn't that have effects I don't want?

 

1) On a low ego character, I would get +30 on the MC (attack friends) but also the entangle (stand around). The MC wouldn't work because they'd be stuck in the entangle, unable to move.

 

2) On mid--to-high ego characters, it might work out, but only if I can find a pretty consistent level of Mental Paralysis that non-mentalists have a decent chance of breaking.

 

3) On mentalists or very high ego characters, I probably wouldn't get +30 MC or the Mental Paralysis, but that isn't really the problem anyway.

 

Regarding #1, Would others make the 'Mental Paralysis' entangle trump the Mind Control? I think I would, even if the MC was +30 level. If they were trapped in the Ego Entangle, they couldn't move to attack their friends even if they "wanted" to.

 

1: yeah i forgot something, but just put a -1/2 or somehitng, that says "only if Mind control doesn't achieve effect" OR you could put "only to let them move towards friends with the intention of attacking them"

 

2: make it a no defense entangle, but double the body (as a GM, i wouldn;t make that cost anything extra personally) then you get a same level, that anyone, given enough time, can break out, but with only 5 dice, it woudl take the average person a minute or less to to break free, but they would break free evwentually, the main thing is :will they break free before they get knocked out?

 

3:yeah, and the high level characters could casually break free of the no defense entangle.