Five-Teams

[Trebuchet]

I like the idea. I don't have a villainous agency such a VIPER in my campaign per se, but I do have something that fulfils much the same purpose.

 

In my campaign I have the Chosen, a loosely knit group of immortal sorcerers and mentalists. Refugees and descendants of the rebels in the Atlantean civil war ~5000 years ago, the Chosen operate in individual groups with anything from 1-50 Atlanteans. The Chosen believe it is their birthright to ultimately rule over the world's human cattle, enslaving humanity in perpetual bondage. In this, they are opposed by a number of mostly informal Atlantean groups, most notably the Circle of Light (powerful mentalists) and the Synod (sorcerers). The Chosen often work through human fronts; Hitler was a Chosen puppet although it is uncertain which of his "advisors" was actually Chosen; most probably Eichmann. Only occasionally does a Chosen directly show themselves as a power, such as the infamous Morgan le Fey (still at large, and one of the most powerful Chosen sorceresses who has ever lived) from the days of King Arthur. (Need I add that Merlin was an Atlantean working to oppose Le Fey?)

 

Fortunately for humanity, the Chosen spend as much time intriguing amongst themselves as they do attempting to take over the world, and backstabbing is a high art amongst them. Alliances are for convenience only. That's the price one pays for being evil.

[OddHat]

Originally posted by Trebuchet

I like the idea. I don't have a villainous agency such a VIPER in my campaign per se, but I do have something that fulfils much the same purpose.

 

In my campaign I have the Chosen, a loosely knit group of immortal sorcerers and mentalists. Refugees and descendants of the rebels in the Atlantean civil war ~5000 years ago, the Chosen operate in individual groups with anything from 1-50 Atlanteans. The Chosen believe it is their birthright to ultimately rule over the world's human cattle, enslaving humanity in perpetual bondage. In this, they are opposed by a number of mostly informal Atlantean groups, most notably the Circle of Light (powerful mentalists) and the Synod (sorcerers). The Chosen often work through human fronts; Hitler was a Chosen puppet although it is uncertain which of his "advisors" was actually Chosen; most probably Eichmann. Only occasionally does a Chosen directly show themselves as a power, such as the infamous Morgan le Fey (still at large, and one of the most powerful Chosen sorceresses who has ever lived) from the days of King Arthur. (Need I add that Merlin was an Atlantean working to oppose Le Fey?)

 

Fortunately for humanity, the Chosen spend as much time intriguing amongst themselves as they do attempting to take over the world, and backstabbing is a high art amongst them. Alliances are for convenience only. That's the price one pays for being evil.

 

Except for the names, I've been using almost exactly the same set up. The evil Atlanteans are the Balor and their catspaw's are The Mornigstar Corporation and various small groups of Vampires, Werwolves, etc. The "good" Atlanteans are The Nine (not exactly "good," but unlike the Balor not entirely insane) and their splinter groups (The Council, The Circle, others). Far more recent groups like Demon or The Crowns are seen as intollerable by both.

 

The Roman Catholic Church is aware of these groups and counters them with the Order of Saint George (church alligned mystics and metahumans), and most governments have an agency or two that either suspects the truth or is controlled by the ancients. And of course most younger paranormals and metahumans who are aware of them at all see the ancient groups as a bunch of frickin' loonies.

[Trebuchet]

Originally posted by OddHat

Except for the names, I've been using almost exactly the same set up. The evil Atlanteans are the Balor and their catspaw's are The Mornigstar Corporation and various small groups of Vampires, Werwolves, etc. The "good" Atlanteans are The Nine (not exactly "good," but unlike the Balor not entirely insane) and their splinter groups (The Council, The Circle, others). Far more recent groups like Demon or The Crowns are seen as intollerable by both.

 

The Roman Catholic Church is aware of these groups and counters them with the Order of Saint George (church alligned mystics and metahumans), and most governments have an agency or two that either suspects the truth or is controlled by the ancients. And of course most younger paranormals and metahumans who are aware of them at all see the ancient groups as a bunch of frickin' loonies.

Hmmm. Maybe we ought to exchange plot ideas? If your're interested, e-mail me. (Obviously we can't discuss it here, as my players frequent these boards.)

 

One of our PCs (Our mentalist, Prodigy) is an Atlantean, and a founding member of the Knights Templar. The Templars are a group founded by the good Atlanteans as a specific counter to the Chosen, who were working within the Catholic Church through most of the Middle Ages. So in addition to being an immortal, he is also an ordained Catholic priest.

[OddHat]

Originally posted by Trebuchet

Hmmm. Maybe we ought to exchange plot ideas? If your're interested, e-mail me. (Obviously we can't discuss it here, as my players frequent these boards.)

 

I'll drop you an email. May take me a day or two to put together anything useful though. I like the Immortal Catholic priest idea.

[assault]

Originally posted by Trebuchet

The Templars are a group founded by the good Atlanteans as a specific counter to the Chosen, who were working within the Catholic Church through most of the Middle Ages.

 

Hmm. But the Chosen managed to turn the Inquisition against the Templars...

 

I suppose that's reasonable enough. If the Inquisition was being used against the Chosen, it would naturally be a target for infiltration and potential takeover.

 

It's all getting a bit WoDdy, though.

 

Alan

[OddHat]

Originally posted by assault

Hmm. But the Chosen managed to turn the Inquisition against the Templars...

 

I suppose that's reasonable enough. If the Inquisition was being used against the Chosen, it would naturally be a target for infiltration and potential takeover.

 

It's all getting a bit WoDdy, though.

 

Alan

 

The trick to running "ancient powers" without drifting into WoD stupidity is in (a) giving humanity credit for being inovative, intelligent, vicious, kind, brilliant and stupid all without outside help and ( keeping the ancients rare enough to limit their influence.

 

That and forcing any goth players to scrape off the makeup and take out the frickin' fangs before they sit down at the table.

[Trebuchet]

Originally posted by assault

Hmm. But the Chosen managed to turn the Inquisition against the Templars...

 

I suppose that's reasonable enough. If the Inquisition was being used against the Chosen, it would naturally be a target for infiltration and potential takeover.

 

It's all getting a bit WoDdy, though.

Most of human history in our campaign is influenced by the constant battle between the Chosen and their enemies (Hitler and Stalin were both pawns of different Chosen factions.). Prodigy's mentor, Uruk (the ancient city in Babylon was named after him), is the most powerful mentalist to have ever lived. He's now 8000+ years old, and has been such notables as Gilgamesh and Merlin through his long life. He tends to take the long term view, but he's utterly ruthless and extremely pragmatic. He's a good guy, but his view of what is "good" is not quite the same as modern sensibilities. For example, Uruk persuaded the Mongolian hordes to go westward in order to break the Muslims since Mohammed was a Chosen (Mecca is still a Chosen stronghold; and the Kaaba stone is a powerful magic artifact).

 

Mentor and I are both big history and conspiracy buffs, so our campaign universe incorporates a lot of those elements.

[Trebuchet]

Originally posted by OddHat

The trick to running "ancient powers" without drifting into WoD stupidity is in (a) giving humanity credit for being inovative, intelligent, vicious, kind, brilliant and stupid all without outside help and ( keeping the ancients rare enough to limit their influence.

That's a good point, and we've taken measures to reduce that problem.

 

First, the Atlanteans are rare. There are only a few thousand of them in the entire world. They can seldom reproduce, so their numbers have remained virtually stable for literally millenia. (70% of them died when their ancient island city, now submerged under the Black Sea, was destroyed by the shattering of the Dardanelles 5000 years ago.) 50% of all persons of Atlantean blood have no idea of their true nature, but are simply considered gifted humans even by themselves. Many over the centuries have simply been considered persons with "the gift", which has always been a mixed blessing. (Many more have been burned as witches than have made fortunes or ruled nations.) And of the remaining persons of Atlantean blood, the majority simply wish to get along and pay no real attention to the struggles between good and evil. So the actual number who get involved in the struggle are small in both real and relative numbers. Many of the Chosen factions are just a few members, and they mostly use human agents.

 

Secondly, the Atlanteans are human; they've simply been gifted with psychic and/or magical abilities and longevity. Atlantis was both more and less than it is often thought to be. It had indoor plumbing thousands of years before Rome, but captured and used slaves for labor and as fodder for war. Magical light sources and writing, but most buildings were made of clay bricks. Atlanteans had immense magic powers, and engaged in constant political intrigues and rebellions. They are no better than humans because they are humans, with all that that implies, both good and bad. And the ordinary humans constantly thwarted their plans, because those ordinary humans had their own ambitions.

[OddHat]

Trebuchet, I like your approach, and again I've done something similar, but with a different emphasis.

 

My Atlanteans stem from a very small group of humans (Homo sapiens) over 300,000 years ago who developed very limited psionic powers. These powers are often linked to mental and emotional instability and physical illness, most notably sterility, which is why in the "baseline" of humanity they never developed further. The ancestors of the Atlanteans were not so unlucky; some ancient prodigy among them recognized her powers, developed them, and most importantly learned how to develop them in others both by a form of psionic genetic engineering and through selective breeding. By roughly 30,000 BC, the Atlanteans had reached levels of psionic power that wouldn't be seen again until the 20th century. They were also for the most part sterile without the use of their psionic powers to ensure live births.

 

This was the Age of Wonders, when the Atlantean empire was formed. The Atlanteans engaged in wild excesses of genetic engineering in this time, creating the races of legend both obviously non-human (Satyrs, Centaurs, Merfolk, Harpies, Dragons and others) and only subtly different (Vampires, Shape Changers). After the fall, the races that couldn’t breed or survive without the organized psionic assistance of their masters eventually died out (a few with inhumanly long life-spans lasted into historical times). The few fertile Atlanteans mixed their genes back into the general pool of humanity, as did the few shape changers able to do so.

 

In my modern campaign setting virtually all metahumans carry Atlantean genes, most recently activated by the “Wild Card Virus†popularly believed to have been developed by the Germans during WWII (and actually of an entirely different origin). Most metahumans dismiss any tales of their Atlantean heritage as just another ridiculous conspiracy theory about the origins of the Wild Card (the strangest of which has been propagated by a telepathic red-headed madman who calls himself “Doctor Tachyonâ€). Even those who do know and accept the truth are not necessarily any more likely to join one or another group of psionic lunatics who claim to speak for an empire dead since roughly 10,000 BC.

 

Enough (entirely realistic) factional infighting and you can have your conspiracies and your free will too.

[John515]

My VIPER is gonna kick the crap out of the players

 

I like a lot of the ideas regarding the way VIPER is to be handled. I, for one, will gradually introduce them into my game and kick the ever-lovin' dog-snot out of the players if they start to get too cocky. I want them to know that these guys are not fighting a bunch of idiots with tacky costumes. To me, VIPER is a TERRORIST group with a lot of resources. I plan to treat them like it. Chemical weapons, bombs, hijackings, assassinations, and various other ingredients will all be a ingredients in my VIPER recipe.

[Trebuchet]

Originally posted by OddHat

Trebuchet, I like your approach, and again I've done something similar, but with a different emphasis.

 

My Atlanteans stem from a very small group of humans (Homo sapiens) over 300,000 years ago who developed very limited psionic powers. These powers are often linked to mental and emotional instability and physical illness, most notably sterility, which is why in the "baseline" of humanity they never developed further. The ancestors of the Atlanteans were not so unlucky; some ancient prodigy among them recognized her powers, developed them, and most importantly learned how to develop them in others both by a form of psionic genetic engineering and through selective breeding. By roughly 30,000 BC, the Atlanteans had reached levels of psionic power that wouldn't be seen again until the 20th century. They were also for the most part sterile without the use of their psionic powers to ensure live births.

There's much more to the Atlanteans than what I've given here. Lots of stuff is still unknown to the players in my campaign, including ones who read this forum such as Mentor, so I'm not going to reveal too much. I can give you more info directly.

 

In my campaign anyone who can inately manipulate magic or psionic energies is of Atlantean blood. Indeed, in my game the two are considered variations on the same basic force; a crude analogy would be electricity and electronics. One is generally more powerful but cruder; the other is typically less powerful but more subtle.

 

I do like some of your ideas, so I hope you won't be upset if I steal some to fill in a few minor gaps. I really like the use of psionics to prevent stillbirths; it explains much about their poor reproductive rate and why they haven't populated the world. Most of my Atlanteans are not truly immortal; just very long lived. Most live between 800-1500 years. Only those who reach a certain level of mastery of their powers are able to modify themselves to become truly immortal. There are probably only a dozen over 3000 years old, but those tend to be very powerful indeed.

[OddHat]

Originally posted by Trebuchet

In my campaign anyone who can inately manipulate magic or psionic energies is of Atlantean blood. Indeed, in my game the two are considered variations on the same basic force; a crude analogy would be electricity and electronics. One is generally more powerful but cruder; the other is typically less powerful but more subtle.

 

I got rid of the distinction in my campaign world as well. "Magic" and "Psionics" are one and the same. "Magicians" use meditation, self-hypnosis, herbal medicines, fragments of Atlantean technology, and a wide variety of other techniques developed over thousands of years to channel their powers. Even those with fairly weak natural psionic powers can become functional magicians and learn to use those powers to their fullest. This is the main recruitment incentive available to cults and other groups that know a little real magic. Psionicists are a modern phenomena, and many will eventually learn some magic, though they'll tend to use more scientific-sounding terms ("Advanced Psionic Techniques") to explain what they're doing. Almost by definition they tend to start out with more raw power than magicians (without that raw power they couldn't function without the trappings of Magic), but they also tend to be much less flexible.

The Chinese Super-Martial Artists call their psionics "chi," and often achieve focussed power levels far beyond those of modern western Magicians and Psionicists.

 

[Trebuchet]

Originally posted by OddHat

I got rid of the distinction in my campaign world as well. "Magic" and "Psionics" are one and the same. "Magicians" use meditation, self-hypnosis, herbal medicines, fragments of Atlantean technology, and a wide variety of other techniques developed over thousands of years to channel their powers. Even those with fairly weak natural psionic powers can become functional magicians and learn to use those powers to their fullest. This is the main recruitment incentive available to cults and other groups that know a little real magic.

There's a bigger difference between the two in my campaign; but they are still related. Indeed, the real and philisophical differences between users of "magic" and"psionics" were a potent dividing force, and were amongst the issues that ultimately led to the Atlantean civil war circa 3000 BC. Psionicists tended to be more "internal," drawing off their own resources. Magicians tended to use their abilities to draw power from external sources, including items of power, demons and other extradimensional entities. The two are not entirely exclusive; many Atlanteans have abilities in both fields although true competence in both is extemely rare. 80% of the Chosen are magicians rather than psionicists; and the vast majority of the rebels in the Atlantean civil war were magicians as well. For this reason the Synod, a powerful group of sorcerers and one of the Atlantean groups which actively opposes the Chosen, is viewed with some suspicion by most Atlanteans. Relations between them and other Atlanteans tend to be rocky. (For the sake of convenience, I'll collectively refer to Atlantean groups which oppose the Chosen as "Ishtari." in the future.) BTW, "Atlanteans" is not the term they call themselves; it was coined by their enemies/victims referring to their island city and plagarized by Plato. Their name for themselves (as with most primitives, even sophisticated ones) simply means "the people."

 

(Hmmm, I've never put this much information in print about the Atlanteans before. I think I'll collate and expand upon all this and put together a "GM's Guide to the Atlanteans" for my campaign.)

[OddHat]

Originally posted by Trebuchet

(Hmmm, I've never put this much information in print about the Atlanteans before. I think I'll collate and expand upon all this and put together a "GM's Guide to the Atlanteans" for my campaign.)

 

A darn good idea, and part of the reason why I'm enjoying the exchange. It's always nice to get this stuff written down.

 

I like the idea of a the conflict being between the users of extra-dimensional energies / entities and the internalists. I always knew it was civil war that did Atlantis in, and I had a vague idea of the genetically engineered slave races (the monsters, kindred and bound spirits) rebelling against the Nine (the ruling council representing the nine great bloodlines), but throw in the idea that the rebellion was lead by the extra-dimensionalists ("Out-Callers" maybe?) and the modern Morningstar Corporation's fondness for enslaving extradimensional creatures and the spirits of the dead becomes much more interesting.

In other words, consider the idea stollen.

 

I've got a plot line I think you can use and / or adapt in your setting. I'll try to email it sometime today.

[Mentor]

Originally posted by RevHooligan

I wanna see Hero stats for Christina Ricca in a bathing suit. And a low carb beer that tastes like Newcastle.

 

Eh. worth a shot.

Michelob Ultra is desperation Atkins brew so I second the second.