Grappling expert and the 1/2 DCV grab penalty

[TheInexplicable]

Okay, so I am working on a grappling expert and am trying to find the most sensible and correct way to counteract the DCV penalty from being involved in a grab.

 

Basically, the character is fluid and adept enough at close quarters combat that he is constantly shifting his position and staying in motion even while in confined spaces or within a grab situation.

 

Lets assume a base DCV 8, which would get lowered to a DCV 4 during a grab. Which of these do you folks think is how it needs to be done:

 

1) +8 DCV Combat Skill Levels with a limitation that they are only used to calculate DCV adjustments due to maneuvers (what would you give that as a limitation value?). So he is essentially at a 16 DCV only to determine the 1/2 DCV value and thus keeping him at the DCV 8 level at all times.

 

2) +4 Penalty Skill Levels purchased to offset the DCV halving from maneuvers (not the innate -X DCV penalty, which it specifically states you can't reduce). Basically, this would be buying 'Environmental Movement: Close quarters combat'

 

I'm not sure which is the better method or even if method 2 is legal. I think the rules are kind of fuzzy in what penalties can be countered by PSLs.

 

I appreciate any opinions or rules clarifications that you might be able to provide. Perhaps this is covered in the UMA or some other resource that I don't have available.

 

-The Inexplicable

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Grappling expert and the 1/2 DCV grab penalty

 

I handle this as DCV Levels with "Only to Calculate 1/2 DCV; -1".

 

I use the ability rarely, typically for squishy speedsters and martial artist / weapon masters. Here's a few off hand I recall having the ability:

 

Callidus

Showdown

Gunman

[Alibear]

Re: Grappling expert and the 1/2 DCV grab penalty

 

I think you have to go the 1st route though that seems ridiculously expensive.

 

I would explore buying an entangle if you have a MP? I would allow the skill levels, costs end (must keep moving) in an MP as well btw.

 

 

 

btw - I've been watching Kung Fu Panda loads recently and noticed that most fighters block if they have their opponent grabbed. Often with the opponent's own limb or tail.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Grappling expert and the 1/2 DCV grab penalty

 

I'd have to check but my feeling is that method 2 is not legal.

 

Method one works, but is a bit of a pain as it is not always going to give accurate results: if your base DEX is adjusted, for instance, then the result will be out.

 

Can you tell us what sort of genre this is and what the points totals are?

 

One possible method would be some sort of TK used to accomplish the actual grab. Technically even that (I think) should suffer some sort of penalty, but the idea is so crazy I just ignore that.

[TheInexplicable]

Re: Grappling expert and the 1/2 DCV grab penalty

 

Superheroic genre, I am bringing my pulp hero The Grey (vigilante type hero who is possessed by the Spirit of American Justice) into the 2000s.

 

TK grabs do not result in the 1/2 DCV penalty for the grabber, the rules do address that specifically somewhere in there. Building as TK would be a bit complex...I'll toss some numbers in and see if I can make it work and what the cost comes out to. I think for ease of record keeping and for concept I would rather do it as method 1 if the costs are even somewhat close. However, building as TK does not at all help him avoid the halving if he is the one being grabbed...so it doesn't quite fit what I am looking for.

 

Campaign restrictions are pretty fierce due to an attempt to put limits on some players who need firmer guidelines than "build to fit campaign level". Working with a 60AP limit and limited to 1 framework (although because of the 1 framework limit we've tossed the restrictions on what can go into an EC and such, other than the Special Powers restriction).

 

I've got the Grey built using an EC currently, previous versions were MP based but I wanted to make him less restricted this time around since he has doubled in power since the 1940s.

 

Edit: I must say that I do find it interesting that consensus seems to be that you can't use PSLs to offset the 1/2 DCV penalty of various maneuvers (which is how I was leaning also). Yet, you can use PSLs to offset the OCV penalties from additional attacks from Autofire or Sweep and that seems much more 'powerful' to me...

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Grappling expert and the 1/2 DCV grab penalty

 

Yeah, PSL's are very inconsistent about what they can and can't be used for. Hopefully 6e will fix them.

[Silbeg]

Re: Grappling expert and the 1/2 DCV grab penalty

 

Edit: I must say that I do find it interesting that consensus seems to be that you can't use PSLs to offset the 1/2 DCV penalty of various maneuvers (which is how I was leaning also). Yet, you can use PSLs to offset the OCV penalties from additional attacks from Autofire or Sweep and that seems much more 'powerful' to me...

 

Actually, you cannot use PSLs to overcome the penalties for additional attackers. The canon way of doing that would be with 2pt CSLs with Sweep. I am also pretty sure this is the case with Autofire as well, but am not 100% sure.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Grappling expert and the 1/2 DCV grab penalty

 

Actually' date=' you cannot use PSLs to overcome the penalties for additional attackers. The canon way of doing that would be with 2pt CSLs with Sweep. I am also pretty sure this is the case with Autofire as well, but am not 100% sure.[/quote']

 

Right you are. Someone could probably point us at the FAQ answer about it, but basically those aren't "penalties"; they are simply modifiers innate to the maneuver being performed. "Penalties" are situational modifiers that make a maneuver more difficult than it normally would be under ideal circumstances (at point blank, in good lighting, against a target with no cover, etc.).

[Vondy]

Re: Grappling expert and the 1/2 DCV grab penalty

 

I'd allow a Talent based on the requisite number of Penalty Skill Levels defined as "vs. grappling related DCV pens."

[JmOz]

Re: Grappling expert and the 1/2 DCV grab penalty

 

I'd allow a Talent based on the requisite number of Penalty Skill Levels defined as "vs. grappling related DCV pens."

 

I would allow it as a +x PSL's where x is equal to the characters base defence. I would handwave the effect of adjustment powers, so if your DCV is reduced for any reason you loose the same number of PSL's or if your DCV is increased you gane PSL's. I figure the loosing will probably be more common

 

I would take a second look IF the team has someone who can +DCV